Minimizing the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine

[TheJuner]

Hi bluelight,

So I’ve been taking methamphetamine orally pretty regularly for nearly 2 months now, with the doses administered being almost always within the medically accepted dosing window, which is between 5mg-25mg methamphetamine/Desoxyn daily. There have been some rare exceptions to this in which I have redosed, but the doses that have exceeded 25mg daily have never been much higher than that and have been in the 30mg range. I occasionally redose, with redoses being small (like 5mgs) but most of the time it isn’t necessary and I actively try to minimize redosing. Over the past 2 months I have used 600 milligrams of methamphetamine in total, furthermore I take breaks from using the substance so my tolerance can return to baseline. In addition to this, I take NAC every night which has been shown to prevent methamphetamine induced neurotoxicity and combat the oxidative stress methamphetamine causes to dopaminergic neurons, alongside vitamin C to help my body clear the substance out. Cannabis and melatonin are frequently used during comedowns off the substance so I can sleep and also not feel so shitty lol. I make sure to hydrate during the day as well to prevent the methamphetamine from dehydrating my body, and I also eat balanced meals everyday. I always make sure to get a good night of sleep as well and do not use methamphetamine to binge/stay awake for several days while constantly redosing or anything like that. How concerned about neurotoxicity should I be and is there anything else I should be doing to minimize the impact of meth use on my brain and body?

 

[Carbink]

Hello. I’m experienced. Been using off an on for a decade. I know some tips for you. Some of which you mentioned already (Vitamin C and Melatonin, Canabis).

First off, I recommend Propel water beverages to drink when you are on Meth. They are a zero sugar Electrolyte beverage made from the producers of Gatorade branded beverages. I get my Propel packs at Fred Meyers. WinCo also has them. So does Amazon. I’m addicted to these lovely water beverages, and you will be too!

Next, I recommend the V8, low-sodium branded vegetable juice beverages. These also have many much needed vitamins and nutrients at your disposal. Electrolytes. Potassium. Celery. Calcium. Vitamin C (110%). This is a much appreciated beverage, and one to include in your tweaker arsenal.

Next up, I recommend a good multivitamin. I personally take Centrum, the gummies, for men. The important part is choosing the one you vibe with the most. For me, that’s Centrum. For you, that might be something else, like Olly, 1 A Day, Nature Made, etc.

Bayer Brand Baby Aspirin is appreciated as I believe it helps with blood pressure. But, controversy is out onto whether it’s all hype or not. Personally, it’s a safety blanket for me so I take one every evening regardless (they have good flavors like Cherry, Orange).

An Atarax script is great for anxiety. L-Theanine also works. I like Olly Blue Stress gummies, which have the is molecule in it. Green tea does too, but that also has Caffeine.

As for food, stick with the healthy diet. 2 Brazil Nuts a day are excellent for your health. Easy foods to eat when on meth are guacamole and hummus. Lobster bisque. StarKist Tuna packets. Chicken of the Sea sardines. Salmon (I like Everything but the Bagel Salmon at Trader Joe’s). Spinach. You can eat two spoonfuls of peanut butter for extra protein before trying to sleep or otherwise. I enjoy Skippy brand, creamy, Natural.

Cheers! Hope this gives you a good starting point, friend! I’m just passing through.

 

[Quasimoto]

I think you are being a little overcautious here, which isn't a bad thing. Meth isn't going to be significantly neurotoxic at such low/therapeutic doses. It would never have been approved by the FDA as a medication if it was. In fact, very low doses of meth has actually been shown to be neuroprotective.

NAC should be cycled. It can cause issues itself if taken daily for long periods. It started to give me some serious issues when I took it daily for over a month. It's an amazing supplement, but is not without side effects itself.

It's also important to note that NAC blocks some of the effect of meth (and all dopaminergic drugs). I suppose you could take even less meth and achieve a similarly productive effect if you removed the NAC.

Other than that, you are doing everything you can to minimize damage. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[TheJuner]

I think you are being a little overcautious here, which isn't a bad thing. Meth isn't going to be significantly neurotoxic at such low/therapeutic doses. It would never have been approved by the FDA as a medication if it was. In fact, very low doses of meth has actually been shown to be neuroprotective.

NAC should be cycled. It can cause issues itself if taken daily for long periods. It started to give me some serious issues when I took it daily for over a month. It's an amazing supplement, but is not without side effects itself.

It's also important to note that NAC blocks some of the effect of meth (and all dopaminergic drugs). I suppose you could take even less meth and achieve a similarly productive effect if you removed the NAC.

Other than that, you are doing everything you can to minimize damage. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I have a lot of experience with stimulants and have taken stimulants both with and without NAC and there definitely is a difference. With amphetamines ( methamphetamine, Adderall and lisdexamfetamine) there is a noticeable difference between taking it with NAC and without NAC. Without NAC the experience is more intensely stimulating and jittery, which I don’t really mind unless I take large doses in which this physical stimulation becomes very unpleasant and often causes me to become anxious (this is most pronounced with Adderall, likely because of the presence of levoamphetamine in the amphetamine salts mixture). With NAC the jitteriness from amphetamine related compounds is reduced and the overall experience feels far more smooth. Admittedly, NAC does blunt some of the desirable effects of amphetamines, notably the cognitive euphoria is less intense and overwhelming but it isn’t that severe. For me NAC doesn’t block the effects of methamphetamine or any other amphetamine based stimulant I’ve tried with it. With other stimulants however it’s a different story, stimulants like caffeine and cocaine (even in moderate to large doses) have their effects massively reduced by NAC. This also applies to methylphenidate as well.

Anyway, as for the cycling of NAC what would you recommend doing? And also what negative side effects did you notice from taking NAC daily for a month, only if you’re comfortable saying ofc.

 

[TheJuner]

I think you are being a little overcautious here, which isn't a bad thing. Meth isn't going to be significantly neurotoxic at such low/therapeutic doses. It would never have been approved by the FDA as a medication if it was. In fact, very low doses of meth has actually been shown to be neuroprotective.

NAC should be cycled. It can cause issues itself if taken daily for long periods. It started to give me some serious issues when I took it daily for over a month. It's an amazing supplement, but is not without side effects itself.

It's also important to note that NAC blocks some of the effect of meth (and all dopaminergic drugs). I suppose you could take even less meth and achieve a similarly productive effect if you removed the NAC.

Other than that, you are doing everything you can to minimize damage. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Yeah I also remember reading a study in which the repeated administration of low doses of methamphetamine (iirc it was like doses of ~0.125mg/kg) yielded demonstrably neuroprotective effects and also minimized the chances of suffering a stroke.

 

[Quasimoto]

Anyway, as for the cycling of NAC what would you recommend doing? And also what negative side effects did you notice from taking NAC daily for a month, only if you’re comfortable saying ofc.

Something like 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

It started giving me anhedonia, felt emotionless like I was on APs, and a few other things, but eventually it started giving me extreme anxiety and dissociative episodes, which is ultimately why I stopped taking it. The anxiety was so bad I never want to take it again. This started to occur around 5 weeks of daily doses of around 1500mg iirc.

 

[TheJuner]

Something like 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

It started giving me anhedonia, felt emotionless like I was on APs, and a few other things, but eventually it started giving me extreme anxiety and dissociative episodes, which is ultimately why I stopped taking it. The anxiety was so bad I never want to take it again. This started to occur around 5 weeks of daily doses of around 1500mg iirc.

I see. I’ve been taking NAC daily for ~5 months now, usually taking 600mg every night but when using MA I stagger 1200mg (600mg when I’m coming down, and another 600mg right before bed) and haven’t experienced anhedonia as a result of it, nor have I experienced an increase in anxiety, if anything it’s been the opposite and It’s helped with it.

 

[zylà]

This looks interesting

Meth abuse causes neurodegeneration. Medicinal herb such as crocin has neuroprotective properties. The current study evaluates the role of CREB-BDNF signaling pathway in mediating the neuroprotective effects of crocin against METH-induced neurodegeneration in rats.

Crocin Acting as a Neuroprotective Agent against Methamphetamine-induced Neurodegeneration via CREB-BDNF Signaling Pathway

Methamphetamine (METH) abuse causes neurodegeneration. Medicinal herb such as crocin has neuroprotective properties. The current study evaluates the role of...

brieflands.com

I also see this the low dose study,

The neuroprotective potential of low-dose methamphetamine in ... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584615000469

Cross the line into abuse it's another story

 

[SuperPsych]

As for food, stick with the healthy diet. 2 Brazil Nuts a day are excellent for your health. Easy foods to eat when on meth are guacamole and hummus. Lobster bisque. StarKist Tuna packets. Chicken of the Sea sardines. Salmon (I like Everything but the Bagel Salmon at Trader Joe’s). Spinach. You can eat two spoonfuls of peanut butter for extra protein before trying to sleep or otherwise. I enjoy Skippy brand, creamy, Natural.

Cheers! Hope this gives you a good starting point, friend! I’m just passing through.

All good tips in your post! Kind of unrelated to this topic but I think its important for people to know. Brazil Nuts are very high in selenium and eating them in high amounts or regularly can cause selenium toxicity which can be dangerous. 1 or 2 Brazil nuts a day is fine but I'd be cautious eating any more than that. Just one Brazil nut can be about the same amount as what is in a selenium supplement. When I decided to start taking selenium I actually just bought Brazil nuts because they're far cheaper than supplements and I ate one a day

 

[unodelacosa]

Yeah I also remember reading a study in which the repeated administration of low doses of methamphetamine (iirc it was like doses of ~0.125mg/kg) yielded demonstrably neuroprotective effects and also minimized the chances of suffering a stroke.

You're talking about this article, I think: The neuroprotective potential of low-dose methamphetamine in preclinical models of stroke and traumatic brain injury.

Also of interest to you might be the following:

• A speedy recovery: amphetamines and other therapeutics that might impact the recovery from brain injury
• Amphetamine administration improves neurochemical outcome of lateral fluid percussion brain injury in the rat

Brazil Nuts are very high in selenium and eating them in high amounts or regularly can cause selenium toxicity which can be dangerous.

Yeah they'll definitely hurt your stomach if you eat too many, which isn't very many. But besides this, selenium often comes with vitamin E in supplements and there's a connection between men taking vitamin E and then developing prostate cancer, just FYI. Here's a study on it.

 

[jayyss]

Does NAC reverse tolerance to meth??

I really don't care about neurotoxin issues at this stage but I'm interested in the benefits of using NAC for a few days then obviously stopping NAC before using meth again..--> will it lower my tolerance?

My tolerance isn't really that bad, I might inject a point once a week..

 

[yaesutom]

Check your blood pressure on and off meth and if it is over 120/80 get a script for Lisinopril !!

Mine was like 125/82 off and 140/85-154/91 range often on it which can cause long term damage.

Started taking lisinopril 10mg and WOW! Now I’m 108/71 and maybe max 122/80 on it. Feel great too.

Also physically working out, lifting weights gets rid of side effects and makes it work better.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Ultimately, the only answer that can be given with certainty is the one we already know.

We don't have a medication or supplement that reverses these processes. The best way to help yourself is by taking awesome care of yourself even though you're using. This means practicing oral hygiene. Not only is Methamphetamine-related Tooth Decay (Meth-Mouth) an issue in its own right, the health of a person's mouth is a great indicatoro their overall health. Brush twice a day, every day. Don't drink sugary drinks. Etc.

Hydrate. When people are coming down from Methamphetamine, most of them don't know that dehydration is making them feel much worse. I found this out after years of messing around with Amphetamines (High School, College). I realized if I didn't drink enough fluids, I would feel twice as shitty. When I started hydrating properly, the difference was amazing. By nature these stimulants make us so focused that we are unable to break away to use the bathroom or get water. How depressing is that visual?

Good HR would have you with a gallon jug by your side. I use an empty milk jug. You fill it up completely and make it into a basic electrolyte drink.

Per Liter: 1/2 teaspoon salt, 6 teaspoons sugar

As a Gallon is ~3.8 liters, we would need to multiply to get or proportions right.

2 Teaspoons Salt, 23 Teaspoons Sugar

This is important. Especially considering that you are not eating, you're going to need electrolytes to keep you hydrated and balanced. Keep it by your bed and take a big swing of it every half hour.

Eating is another thing. The most simple regimen I recommend to people is this:

Whole Milk
Peanut Butter
Graham Crackers
Multivitamin

It's normal to find the thought of eating disgusting when you're high on Methamphetamine. Peanut butter is high in fat, Vitamind D etc. It is a lot of calories in a small package, which is what you want for right now.

Take a big ass spoonful of peanut butter and wash it down with some whole milk followed of course by your electrolyte drink. One you have a bit of food in your belly, go ahead and take your multivitamin. After your stomach starts working, you can go ahead and try some of the Graham Crackers. Peanut butter and milk are great, but I just feel "better" when I also have some solid stuff in there.

So in short, you need to do everything you would normally do for your health. Hydration is at the forefront of all of this. I think at least 8fl oz of fluids are warranted for a Methamphetamine user.

Try your best to consume calories. I know the Meth is telling you you're not hungry and probably won't ever be again, but it is so essential to keep up with hydration/nutrition when using stimulants.

 

[Raya22]

Hi bluelight,

So I’ve been taking methamphetamine orally pretty regularly for nearly 2 months now, with the doses administered being almost always within the medically accepted dosing window, which is between 5mg-25mg methamphetamine/Desoxyn daily. There have been some rare exceptions to this in which I have redosed, but the doses that have exceeded 25mg daily have never been much higher than that and have been in the 30mg range. I occasionally redose, with redoses being small (like 5mgs) but most of the time it isn’t necessary and I actively try to minimize redosing. Over the past 2 months I have used 600 milligrams of methamphetamine in total, furthermore I take breaks from using the substance so my tolerance can return to baseline. In addition to this, I take NAC every night which has been shown to prevent methamphetamine induced neurotoxicity and combat the oxidative stress methamphetamine causes to dopaminergic neurons, alongside vitamin C to help my body clear the substance out. Cannabis and melatonin are frequently used during comedowns off the substance so I can sleep and also not feel so shitty lol. I make sure to hydrate during the day as well to prevent the methamphetamine from dehydrating my body, and I also eat balanced meals everyday. I always make sure to get a good night of sleep as well and do not use methamphetamine to binge/stay awake for several days while constantly redosing or anything like that. How concerned about neurotoxicity should I be and is there anything else I should be doing to minimize the impact of meth use on my brain and body?

What is NAC?

 

[unodelacosa]

What is NAC?

N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) is a supplement form of cysteine, a conditionally essential amino acid. NAC has many health benefits, including replenishing antioxidants and nourishing your brain. NAC may also have applications in managing substance use disorders. For example, preliminary studies show that NAC may decrease cannabis and nicotine use and cravings…