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MGTOW

morpher001 said:
Sounds an overly dramatised, one eyed and partisan description to me. Perhaps the 'Southern poverty law center' is rather focused on feathering its own nest of ideology and given up any pretense of objectivity.
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I'm pretty sure it was aimed at the members of hateful incel communities, in that case it is accurate.
I'm sure there are guys that can't get a woman that don't become like that.

morpher001 said:
Real Men.

A term used by insecure weak men and/or unscrupulously manipulative individuals.
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Sometimes.
Sometimes used also by reasonable individuals.
I would like to hope that it is agreeable that members of hateful communities are some of the worst men you could find.
Ofcourse they are not the only shitty males around.

morpher001 said:
Not from their point of view.
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What do you mean by that?
Clearly these guys think they are wonderful people, that's part of their problem as they are not.
 
Phobos said:
I'm pretty sure it was aimed at the members of hateful incel communities, in that case it is accurate.
I'm sure there are guys that can't get a woman that don't become like that.
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There are hateful people in any community. The mgtow community seems bitter, but not hateful. It seems ingenuous and unhelpful to tar a whole group with same brush as the worst of its outlying members.

At least they seem to basically want happy relationships.

The real problem is perhaps the sociopathic men and women who don't care about the human aspect of relationships, but have no difficulty finding willing partners and leave a trail of broken ex's in their wake.


Phobos said:
I would like to hope that it is agreeable that members of hateful communities are some of the worst men you could find.
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Hateful members of hateful communities are some of the worst PEOPLE you can find, sure.

I would like to see more hateful communities called out on their bullshit too. They seem to be popping up everywhere - the level of polarity in american politics at the moment has brought this casual hatefulness into the mainstream I think.

For instance, what is ANTIFA if not a hate group?

How can the term 'toxic masculinity' be a thing that people say as if its real thing. Why does no-one point out this is pure venom and nothing more.

Phobos said:
What do you mean by that?
Clearly these guys think they are wonderful people, that's part of their problem as they are not.
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I mean I dont think they are lying. Thats how the world looks to them and thats been their experience in life.

How can you make judgments on the character of any of these people even in a general sense?

It seems the same as saying of a woman who has been through a series of abusive relationships that she clearly must be bitch. And no one listen to her either, shes just a hateful loser who couldn't please a man.
 
All members of incel communities come out as hateful by supporting the hateful principles of the websites and forums they are members of.

This thread is about these specific group, and it is not the place to speak about Antifa, that's why they have not been mentioned.

There has been no mention of toxic masculinity here, I agree it is unacceptable to imply that masculinity can be toxic.
If it is toxic it is not masculinity.

It is very easy to give a judgement on these people as they publish material that represents them.

I don't see how a woman that has been abused has got anything to do with hateful guys that can't get laid.
The woman has met terrible guys and as she has been abused clearly the fault does not lie on her side.
Hateful guys that can't get laid are not victims and are obviously the ones at fault, why would women associate with them.
 
Phobos said:
All members of incel communities come out as hateful by supporting the hateful principles of the websites and forums they are members of.
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Thats just a self referential loop of name calling.

Phobos said:
This thread is about these specific group, and it is not the place to speak about Antifa, that's why they have not been mentioned.

There has been no mention of toxic masculinity here, I agree it is unacceptable to imply that masculinity can be toxic.
If it is toxic it is not masculinity.
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I thought it was fairly obvious that I was calling attention to (what I consider to be) an upsurge in hateful groups and ideologies in the present day. The relevance being the polarizing style of dialogue is something of a downward spiral and it behooves us all well to push back against emotive and cherry picked rhetoric.
Phobos said:
I don't see how a woman that has been abused has got anything to do with hateful guys that can't get laid.
The woman has met terrible guys and as she has been abused clearly the fault does not lie on her side.
Hateful guys that can't get laid are not victims and are obviously the ones at fault, why would women associate with them.
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I am trying to point out that just because someone has experienced the worst relationships and the opposite sex have to offer, that doesn't necessarily make it their fault. Nor does it make their stories irrelevant.
A victim of abuse who has negative things to say about their experience shouldn't be considered to be the cause their abuse, merely because they pointed it out.
 
It would be name calling if they were not the ones that came up with that name.
I'm using the term not to describe all guys that are single against their will but only for those that associate in hate communities that hate all women because some rejected them.

You parallel between abuse victims and incels doesn't still make sense, incels are not abuse victims.
They are not being criticised for the accounts of negative experiences or lack of positive ones, but for the hate they spread as a consequence of that.
Being unable to find a girlfriend is not abuse, it is merely proof that there is something wrong in the approach to relationships, and the reaction to that experience makes it evident that the fault lies in them.
 
What are we debating here? We seem to have different completely different perceptions of who these mgtow people are and what they tend to say.

I thought they tend to be divorcees or other men who have had relationships that have been dysfunctional or ended badly.

You seem to be describing angry virgins who hate women because they never had one.

Do we have any kind of clarity on what their position is as a group?
 
We intersected with the incel comunity, who mind you are 15- 30 year olds who are 'single against their will'...gosh, what a pathetic wording of what is otherwise a totally normal situation! Maybe the hip hop videos gave off the impression we need to be fucking 24/7, maybe it was disney movies' or hollywood's fault that gave the idea that relationships are the only place to get pleassure and satisfaction out of (not love, as love is not pleassure nor satisfaction, but something of a totally different nature.)

They dont want a relationship, they want for the world to turn into some form of disney movie where everything turns out like they would like it. They are fighting against reality with their each and every deluded thought and line of reasoning.

As for MGTOW @morpher001 I never saw one single dude from MGTOW, or listened to him talk, where I was not deeply cringed by their obvious lack of real world experience and knowledge, their total lack of persuit in any art or hobby, and their total lack of self awarness. A lot of "I married a girl who I didnt trust for the punnani and then when it doesnt work out, ¡all women suck!"

No, some women suck, and you picked the one that sucked! Goes to show it was your judgement that is faulty and ill concieved, to marry someone who sucks.

For example my dad totally played my mom in every aspect of the marriage, gasligthed, manipulated, cheated, was never home...u think my mom got a huge divorce setellment for how my dad fucked over her dreams of a happy marriage? My mom never legally divorced and my dad would just send her money without any more preassure than his own word and her screaming to him over the phone when he didnt. So yeah, not all women are like that..and I take the women's side in this specific case and you would too in my shoes.
 
Mgtow in a nutshell
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A selection of the quotes from the quotes section of MGTOW.com, I don't think comments are necessary:

"No means yes. Yes means anal."

"Teaching women logic is like trying to smell the color 9."

"To score Western sluts, get across the message that your only interest is to perform the most degrading sex acts you can think of before severing all contact. And don’t really care if they don’t want to, because you can easily find some other slut who will."

"Honor is a male abstraction, don’t expect women to understand."

"The Double Standard Explained: A key that opens many locks is a master key. But a lock that is opened by many keys is just a shitty lock."
 
atara said:
MGTOW is insane. Indefensibly so.

But it and other movements like it are--in my opinion, to some extent--a product of the fact that an irreligious society has been so far unable to accept the inevitable risk of loss that comes with being alive and doing anything. There are plenty of statistics and studies out there that show that most people are in fact faithful (according to anonymous surveys and backed up by circumstantial data), kind, and not seeking financial gain from romance. This is little comfort to anyone who has been abused. Individuals exist, averages do not. Religions make up stories and offer spiritual rewards and salvation in the next life/lives to console these people. These stories are mystical and unjustified because the losses themselves are unjustified. Life is unjustified, arbitrary, capricious and unfair. The only life in which you don't risk anything is the one where you agree to lose everything up-front.
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What is MGTOW?
 
Oh, okay. I took a look at the sight.
I thought these assholes died out 50 years ago?
So...are they celibate now or are they gonna try ordering the pork instead of the fish?
 
Phobos said:
A selection of the quotes from the quotes section of MGTOW.com, I don't think comments are necessary:

"No means yes. Yes means anal."

"Teaching women logic is like trying to smell the color 9."

"To score Western sluts, get across the message that your only interest is to perform the most degrading sex acts you can think of before severing all contact. And don’t really care if they don’t want to, because you can easily find some other slut who will."

"Honor is a male abstraction, don’t expect women to understand."

"The Double Standard Explained: A key that opens many locks is a master key. But a lock that is opened by many keys is just a shitty lock."
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That imo is some really nasty & dumb stuff to say & I personally have no time for that kinda logic.

The way women think they can run men though is a real issue, yet again the other day a proper friend I have is being run by his missus who he has just got with & it is weird to see how this guy has lost his fucking mind to a woman. His attitude has changed 100% for the worse & on Saturday I wanted to punch him right in the face for hisa attitude & the way he spoke to me because he had to go see his little whore when he owned my fucking money, no man you pay your heroin debt off BEFORE you go see that tramp.

She rules over him while at the same time trying to make out she walks on water, a lot of women are like this sadly. They think men ONLY think with their dick, some of us don't give a toss though & care not for the evil female vagina majick.
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
it is weird to see how this guy has lost his fucking mind to a woman.
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My 17 yr old self would have agreed with you. I grew out of it and so did all my friends sometime in our twenties. Sure it was tough for most of us to see our friends drop off because of relationships but that was the beauty of it. REAL friendships survived through it, even if one friend got married. Real friends support each other’s decisions, even if those decisions include a life with a woman (gasp!).

It’s counterproductive to blame your friend’s girlfriend for your own jealousy.





jealousy-is-a-disease-and-they-have-medicine-for-it-3665170.png
 
@w01fg4ng

I've known this guy since I was 14 & I'm a lot older than you would think. His been in 2 relationships since I've known him & we are both addicts & we both have been for close to 20 years. He has my back & I have his, I gave him my last £10 so he could go score as he was starting to get sick & his new missus has no idea his addicted yet. He then burned me / fucked me over & didn't pay off his debt the day he said he would & left me sick. Now I have no idea if you know what heroin withdrawl is like but if not take my words for it the feeling isn't nice. Now when you are like that with someone in the heroin world your friendship takes on a whole new league & to be left dope sick because his woman his been with 2 months & a few days is barking is a pure insult to me.

You'll never understand unless you been there, feel free to post as much underhanded comments to me as you like though.
 
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