methamphetamine is EVIL

[NecroTrance]

Hitler's little WWII skirmish.

Little?! Skirmish?!?!

If it wasn't for Hitler contracting Syphilis and going mad, we'd all be speaking German. The man was a warfare expert, a political extremist, and an intellectual marvel. The man was great. Sure, by most accounts he was morally incorrect, but morals are for those that want to co-exist with society harmoniously.

Methamphetamine is not evil, nor does it have any inclination to morals. Sure, drugs may be a facet of life that CAN be personified as being evil or good, etc.. but the truth is human beings are the devices by which drugs are personified. It's like when people advocate marijuana by saying it's natural or that God made it...Sure, marijuana is a natural plant, but rolling it up and smoking it is quite unnatural.

The same goes for all drugs, Meth included. If one person's intentions in doing Meth are socially wrong, then their use of Meth will be the same. The effects of our drug use are echoed through our goals in using. I use Meth to get high, not to seek some spiritual awareness or to trick my body into thinking it can work better. Therefore, my expectations when under the influence of Meth are none, thus I can never dissappoint a god damn thing.

Ask yourself...Is the drug evil or do I allow my moral hold on reality slip when I use the drug? The answer: Everyone is evil, but some can mask or ignore this evil easier than others. However, many find it difficult to control themselves while under the influence of anything and thus their evil intentions slip out which seperates them from the morally correct trend of society and drugs take all the blame. Grow a fucking brain, society.

 

[laovienax]

was a warfare expert, a political extremist, and an intellectual marvel. The man was great.

hitler certainly wasnt a warfare expert, nor was he an intellectual marvel

yes, he was a marvellous speaker; yes, he could fascinate the masses; yes, he made some surprisingly good (if lucky) decisions at the beginning of the war;

but there were constant complaints (some open, most not) about hitler's interference in and later complete takeover of the work of the professional military planners; many of his decisions, especially after 1942 were ill-informed and more and more based on delusion; for instance the order not to retreat from stalingrad towards the end of 1942, which served no useful purpose but lost the whole sixth army; or, more fundamental, the decision to attack russia in 1941; or the tactical mistake of instantly erecting a regime of terror in the east instead of exploiting latent anti-stalinism in eastern europe; or the senseless "resistance to the last man" once the allies and russians had reached the german borders... etc.etc.

as far as the "intellectual marvel" goes, you obviously haven't read "mein kampf"; hitler was at best an intellectual middle-weight; look at the art, literature and theatre he loved and endorsed;

 

[gugglebum]

Little?! Skirmish?!?!

If it wasn't for Hitler contracting Syphilis and going mad, we'd all be speaking German. The man was a warfare expert, a political extremist, and an intellectual marvel. The man was great. Sure, by most accounts he was morally incorrect, but morals are for those that want to co-exist with society harmoniously.

1. Syphillis?
2. He didn't go mad, he didn't wanna be taken by the Russians.
3. Warfare expert? No he wasn't. Period.
4. Political extremist? OK I won't doubt that one
5. Intellectual marvel? Umm no, he was a good speaker who surrounded himself by people who worked 16+ hours a day for him, that's all.

His syphillis doesn't have anything to do with us not speaking German.
Those 20 million dead Russian soldiers have a little more to do with it ...

Ps. Not to start anything, but the US didn't win the war. I don't care what you saw in Pearl Harbor or whatever ... it wasn't the United States that defeated Hitler. No. Period.

 

[sketchiness]

oh my god when did this turn into a debate about hitler?!?! you guys, stop cluttering my nice little thread w/ your bullshit

 

[Chubba75]

Yeah seriously, methamphetamine has nothing at all to do with hitler in relation to this thread.

Anyone find that after using meth for a long time, it's hard to... uhh talk.. when not high. Like when I wake up (after a big crash), it's hard to even put a simple sentence together like 'what are you doing today", but after I have my wake up shot, it all starts flowing again.

It sounds like I'm retarded, seriously

 

[rah]

Beagle
eh, I used to be one of those people who defended meth and said it could be used in moderation. Well, I hate to say this, but bullshit. I sloooooowly but surely threw moderation out of the window like most people do. It took a long time but I did.

Too true man, I was exactly the same. Snorted meth for 6 months... learnt how to IV, was addicted 4 days later.I literally have no morals anymore. The way I see, I'm going to run into a deadend soon (die).. so I just don't really care anymore.

People will say drugs don't make you do things, don't control you... I don't really understand it, but my personality has done a complete 180.

dont worry man, you'll probably just hit rock bottom then realise the meth addiction isn't worth it, seriously theres better drug addictions out there.. mm heroin, maybe weed or maybe just no addiction? But really meth use isnt worth it if you have as little control as you do. Your observations may be different but i've observed most users experience the early stages or even the pitfalls of meth abuse then find they cant go back to that low, then unplanned moderate use is possible after this realisation.. so i dont buy your preaching about there being no such thing as moderate use of amphetamines, i guess every person prescribed some amphetamine for obesity, ADD, narcalepsy or doing long runs for the air force becomes totally fucked up like you

ps. excuse me if you were only referring to yourselves, but it just sounded like your saying noone can use meth responsibly, which seems to be the growing sentiments in meth threads recently

 

[Chubba75]

I tried heroin, even got physically dependant on it, but all through that time I was still shooting speed... heroin was just, boring... I didn't have pain to kill at the time really.

Nearly every user I've seen that tries meth, either gets addicted or stops using. You can say people can be responsible with it... maybe they can keep it to weekends for 2 - 3 years, but at some point they usually slip (it took me 6 months to). Of course there are people that can use responsibly, but with meth, it's an extreme minority... just because someone is using responsibly now (I was one of those people arguing in your position) doesn't mean they will always be.

I've hit rock bottom pretty much, all I need is to lose my accomodation/car and I'm there but seriously, when that time comes, I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do.

 

[zx13xz]

It seems that the main problem with addiction is the illegality, and therefor, great expense associated with it. I mean, look at how well heroin addicts can do on methadone or in those countries where addicts can receive free heroin all the time. They can lead perfectly happy and productive lives. Calling a drug "evil" is just plain stupid. What you actually mean is that it is bad for your health. In which case, smoking and fast food is just as evil. The whole "selling your soul" aspect of drugs comes from what you need to do to get the drugs. You need money, so you do some immoral things. If that makes a specific drug "evil" than food is also evil, because a starving person will do a hell of a lot to get food. Hell, starving people will even band together to revolt against the ruling class in order to better their situation. When you become addicted to the drug, your body creates a physical need for the drug. You need it like you need food, and you feel like you need it more than you need food. Blame it on the drug all you want, but it was ultimately YOUR bad decision making that resulted in the addiction. But an addict would never admit to that, because an addict is GREAT at denial. It's always your shitty job/parents/wife that "made you turn to drugs" and it is always the "evil" drug that made you addicted. People that watch someone ruin their lives through addiction would rather say that a drug is "evil" than admit that the person they love was capable of such a stupid mistake. It's all about denial. The glass being fragile doesn't make you break it, but if you have butterfingers it's best not to play in the china shop.

 

[Chubba75]

Get off your high horse, seriously.

 

[psychetool]

Yeah... After a heavy crank addiction or dealing with one in your family i'm pretty fucking SURE you would disagree. If I am wrong and you do have expirence here I apologize, but your making some broad and sweeping statements that are really bullshit. Do you actually have expirence dealing with addiction (especially methamphetamine) or are you just making a judgement call from your point of view?

 

[nick44]

hitler is always brought up somewhere - when people argue about meth.

i want something interesting like someone connecting pol pot with heroin. c'mon someone please please reference someone else when talking about "evil".

hey what about that hashish they gave to those assassins back in the day? THC is EVIL.

I would really like meth if the cravings weren't so fucking bad and i didn't want to do it all the time so i could actually talk to people and not sit there in an akward circumstance. sleeping and eating are overrated sometimes - but the whole not wanting to go to your job so you can tweak - well that is where ya gotta draw the line.

 

[tweekeria]

I would really like meth if the cravings weren't so fucking bad and i didn't want to do it all the time so i could actually talk to people and not sit there in an akward circumstance. sleeping and eating are overrated sometimes - but the whole not wanting to go to your job so you can tweak - well that is where ya gotta draw the line.

ha... i tweak so i CAN go to work. i dont think i could function there without it.

 

[zx13xz]

I know quite a few people that have gotten themselves addicted to drugs (even in my own family). And you know, they never pussied out and blamed it on the drugs. They always took responsibility for thier own actions and admitted that nothing "made" them turn to drugs. They did drugs because they enjoyed it. Drugs don't change who you are. If anything they really test you and show you things you never knew about yourself. They show you exactly how much stress you have to go through before your personal morals break down. Some people can be needing a fix so bad they think they are going to die, but they still won't go rob their families or kill people or prostitute themselves. It really does come down to money and responsibility, because there are plenty of rich addicts who never do "evil" things to get their drugs and can still work just fine. Again, look at Holland giving away free drugs to addicts and you can see how all kinds of crime has gone down as a result.

 

[sketchiness]

okay when i started this thread i wasn't handing over my responsibilities to drugs. i was making a statement based on what i have seen and you people really need to lighten up. if you have nothing better to do than preach about whatever the hell it is you are trying to sell then you are pretty damn sad. NO MORE BULLSHIT.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Bold I may be, but a fool I am not. People here on BL can make any choice they'd like, but I'll still call them fools.

My so called "close-minded judgement" comes from experiance, and a hell of a lot of research.
_______________

My first experiance was fun as hell, as were the numerous other times I did it. It alway's felt worthwhile and rewarding, but it isn't either. You'd see that if you took a few steps back and looked at the bigger picture.

I agree with you 100%. I wont call anyone here a fool, because it's their body and they are entitled to make the choice of what they put in it. However, I consider meth use to be very foolish.
I have known MANY, MANY, MANY meth users in my life...some of them very close to me. I have never seen that shit cause anything BUT pain. When it did bring good times, those good times were completely overshadowed by the pain it would later cause. I've seen wonderful people start using meth and turn into some of the most scuzzy, dishonest, HORRIBLE creatures I have ever seen. I've never seen one person who "tried it once" and didn't have some sort of problem with it (stopping). I've seen friends announce to me over and over again that they are "quitting that shit" and then seen them maybe a month later, spun out like you wouldn't believe, and if I ask them about quitting, they would just act like they never said it.

I've been stolen from.

I've been lied to.

I've been hurt in more ways than I can ever explain. ALL by people under the influence of this drug.

So yeah..I wont call anyone a "fool"..but to say meth use is foolish is putting it extremely lightly.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

okay when i started this thread i wasn't handing over my responsibilities to drugs. i was making a statement based on what i have seen and you people really need to lighten up. if you have nothing better to do than preach about whatever the hell it is you are trying to sell then you are pretty damn sad. NO MORE BULLSHIT.

8( 8)

Lord..how old are you again? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Curious Yellow]

HITLER!!!

 

[Moon Flower]

What kind of usage patterns are you guys generally taking? Cos I'm trying to get a sense of how much you're taking to have formulated the opinions/habits that you have.

I currently take meth a couple of weekends a month, less than a point. Depends on circumstances. I've been feeling a bit down lately, which I feel is more due to pills (ecstacy) than anything else. I am curious as to how much of an influence meth has had, because right now I'm thinking that meth seems a better alternative than pills. I don't think that I would take it to the extent that I would become addicted, but I can see how it would occur. Particularly if it were to be injected, which I would NEVER EVER do. Just for the fact that there is so much more chance of addiction. But I can see that it is quite insidious, in that it would be easy to keep taking more and more (feeling shy in class? line of meth will make you talk!)

I dunno, I suppose I'm just kind of trying to get more of a feel about it. To me, it's difficult to...relate it to my use, I suppose, when the people who are talking about how evil it is seem to have taken a great deal more than I have. I suppose I'm asking, in moderation (or relative moderation, anyway ), how bad is it to take? And, as an alternative to pills, would it be better or worse?

Btw, any threads about results of long term meth use on the brain, or the differences between ecstacy and meth neurotoxicity would be really appreciated - I've looked but I can't find anything that is relevant to what I want to know. Sorry if this is kinda off topic.

 

[Chubba75]

^^

I snorted meth weekly (buy a $50 of ice each for friday, crash on sunday) for around 6 months. After coming onto this site, a lot of myths were dispelled... and I started to learn about IV.

After 6 months of reponsible meth use, I tried IV (I had about 1.5g of pure crystal at the time). I couldn't really help myself, I went through around 7 shots that night (and I only learned how to use two veins, so they got a beating) followed by 3 or 4 the next day, eventually crashing... waking up after 12 hours, immediately upon waking, I started mixing a nice juicy shot. After I came out of my room, everything started turning to shit, basically my family fell apart (nothing to do with the meth), times were really hard... I was considering suicide, but basically I lost it then... things haven't gotten better and from that first time I IVed, guess I was addicted.

IV was just much greater then I expected

 

[psychetool]

how bad is it to take? And, as an alternative to pills, would it be better or worse?

Much worse, here is a list of effects from good old Erowid..

Positive Meth Effects
* Increased energy and alertness
* Decreased need for sleep
* Euphoria
* Increased sexuality

Neutral Meth Effects
* excessive talking
* weight loss
* sweating
* visual & auditory hallucinations (hearing voices)

Negative Meth Effects
* disturbed sleep patterns
* Tightened jaw muscles, grinding teeth (trismus and bruxia)
* loss of appetite (anorexia), leading to poor nutrition and weight loss with heavy use/li>
* Reduced enjoyment of eating
* Loss of interest in sex, over time
* itching, welts on skin
* nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
* excessive excitation, hyperactivity
* shortness of breath
* moodiness & irritability
* anxiousness & nervousness
* aggressiveness
* panic, suspiciousness & paranoia
* involuntary body movements (uncontrollable movement and/or twitches of fingers, facial & body muscles, lip-smaking, tongue protrusion, grimacing, etc.)
* false sense of confidence and power (delusions of grandeur)
* aggressive and violent behavior
* severe depression, suicidal tendencies
Possible Long Term Effects
* fatal kidney and lung disorders
* possible brain damage
* permanent psychological problems
* lowered resistance to illnesses
* liver damage
* stroke

Routes of Administration
As with other psychoactives, different routes of administration have different profiles of effects. Oral methamphetamine ingestion tends to lack rushing, has less euphoric effects, and tends to cause far less of a feeling of wanting to do it again than the other methods. Smoking and injecting methamphetamine are associated with stronger, more euphoric effects and these are more associated with compulsive / addictive user patterns.


Addiction and Withdrawal
Users of large amount of amphetamines over a long period of time can develop an amphetamine psychosis, which is a mental disorder similar to paranoid schizophrenia. The psychosis is manifested by hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia. Bizarre, sometime violent, behavior is exhibited by those with amphetamine psychosis. Symptoms usually disappear within a few weeks after drug use stops.


Withdrawal Symptoms
Amphetamines have the potential to produce tolerance, which means that increased amounts of the drug are needed to achieve the desired effects. Withdrawal symptoms can occur when use of amphetamines is stopped abruptly. Users may experience fatigue; long, disturbed periods of sleep; irritability; intense hunger, and moderate to severe depression. The length and severity of the depression is related to how much and how often amphetamines were used.


* craving
* exhaustion
* depression
* mental confusion
* restlessness and insomnia
* deep or disturbed sleep lasting up to 48 hours
* extreme hunger
* psychotic reaction
* anxiety reactions