Methamphetamine Discussion Thread 2.0

[Christ!]

I think stim. 'maintenance' has some real potential, for those who are serious about making the major changes needed. I think a carefully selected dosing plan along with strong support (counselling/monitoring/testing) could increase chances of success pretty significantly. Life without some kind of amphetamine/stimulant at least on a short-med term is completely unrealistic for heavy users, coming back to normal life without all that dopamine on-board would be excruciating I'm guessing.

I think the Opiate maintenance model doesn't fit the pharmacological profile of methamphetamine at all.

Agreed. Two different kettles of fish

Same deal as with opiates in 'normalizing' their lives during the process of maintenance - but with tapering off the drug a stronger goal.

I just reckon the huge shock of severe meth addict -> normal productive citizen is too big. After quitting a heavy meth habit you'd have to relearn everything again while feeling pretty shitty for an extended peroid of time (which is how I understand it - have been lucky not to be in that position)

If anyone is interested in reading the recent study done in SA on Dex. Maintenance for Methamphetamine addiction - PM me. Still need to read through it properly myself but some interesting stuff just from scanning it.

 

[spacejunk]

^ agree with all those points, Christ! - I suppose what I'm getting at is that other - non amphetamine options - may fit the bill more adequately. I don't know what those would be - but I can imagine a boost in the black market for pharmaceutical amphetamine pills.
Breaking that habit can be hard - but the same can be said for any addiction.
Not that I don't think help should be available for those in need of it - of course it should.
Just not sure how the medical community should tackle this one...

 

[Kazza69MeBaby!]

Modafinil seems like a good mode of detoxing from heavy stims...including Dex.

D5 replacement therapy just seems whack as fuck to me and seems pointless...

I have been iving meth for 5 years now I am not an everyday user, although I had been at one time and have slowed way down on my use to prolly 1-3 times a month... I have lost that want to talk all the time, that instant blabermouth most people get when high. What's up with this? They seem to be having so much fun where I just shut down all my emotions when high, it's just to the point where it's no fun anymore, not sure why I can continue to use, guess that's an addict for ya ??
I no longer get an enhanced sex drive or have the want to get up and get things accomplished, all I want to do is sit on my computer and google things!!

Hahah right with ya! It's called boredom man!

After 10 years of using ive only just figured out how to smoke correctly.
10 years dude?
Take care....

I mean my technique wasn't horrible (at least I didn't touch flame to glass) but the stuff around atm is SO HARD to smoke without burning. Im sick of wasting it so im just IV'ing but I like to have a smoke too but it's next to impossible with this. Anyone else having similar problems?
Yeha man.
Its not like its crap stuff, in fact its really awesome I.e at least 85% pure and big clear rocks.

That's funny cuz the majority of methylamphetamine seized in Australia ranges in purity from 1% to 70% maximum.

Id rather IV anyway because the feeling is cleaner, I don't waste so much and dont use as much. When im with smokers that's all we do 24/7 whereas IV'ers can put the shit away and enjoy ourselves either fucking or dancing or partying., whatever were doing but most crackhouses ( they may as well be called that) with residents that smoke are often much more yucky, unclean, hostile places where the attention is always focused on the pipe. In a way im glad I IV.
You are right there.

I got 4 points today and after "losing" 1.5pts I still have heaps left. I couldnt hit more if I wanted to, im high as a kite. And that fried feeling is what we IV'ers look for. I shot a point this morning (different but still quality compared to what I have now) and it killed my anxiety and that dead-in-the-head feeling is exactly what I wanted. Gradually as the rush wears off my self returns and I'm just fried and continue to do one of my usual fried activities which are almost all personal lol And as long as I have vitamins (omega-3, magnesium, male multi and vit D) and eat, drink, sleep and do normal things I am fine and dont really scatter out, get grumpy or suffer too much in the way of negative effects.

You sound like you know what you're doing brother.

.

It's known that many people who use IV become psychologically addicted to the ritual of IV use as much as the drug, I know I am. Methadone doesn't do it for me at all, but primarily because it's a really shitty drug that makes me feel crap, never well. Stimulant maintenance is tricky, because it's very unhealthy to stay awake for days on end, which stimulant abusers tend to do. I'd be interested in hearing more about any proposed stimulant maintenance program though. I think a poster on AUDD participated in a trial with an inferior drug (can't remember which one) for this purpose but I don't think it worked very well.

People just love sticking needles in their arms!

 

[footscrazy]

^ Kazza I've merged your posts, in future please don't post multiple posts in a row, just do it all in the one post

I'd be interested in hearing more about any proposed stimulant maintenance program though. I think a poster on AUDD participated in a trial with an inferior drug (can't remember which one) for this purpose but I don't think it worked very well.

I did a clinical trial with modafinil for methamphetamine withdrawal. Yeah, apparently the results weren't very positive and the modafinil showed little benefit.

Regarding dex (or similar) maintenance for meth addicts - when I was using meth heavily I was very keen on the idea and tried hard to get prescribed some pharmaceutical amphetamine for maintenance or tapering. I didn't get any, and I'm glad I didn't. My motives weren't 'pure', in the sense that I wanted prescribed amphetamines because I just didn't really want to face stopping stimulants. I think this is a pretty common feeling, but I also don't think the mindstate required to quit can ever be achieved whilst you're using even a small amount of meth/amphetamine. For me the big difference between stimulant and opioid addiction is that if I'm in opioid wd a small amount, not enough to get high, can still provide relief, but with meth I found that having a small amount - not enough to get me high - would set off massive cravings, and put just one thought in my head - get more.

Life without some kind of amphetamine/stimulant at least on a short-med term is completely unrealistic for heavy users, coming back to normal life without all that dopamine on-board would be excruciating I'm guessing.

There's no doubt recovering from meth abuse isn't easy, but I don't think it's as hopeless as that, either. It does take time to recover and it'll always be kind of shitty...I just feel the longer you have a dopamine agonist in their system, the longer you're drawing out the anhedonia, the lack of pleasure, motivation and so on. It makes common sense that if you need meth to feel 'normal', then using something milder like amphetamine will get you half way to normal, or at least provide some relief. In my experience it doesn't though - using meth pushes your threshold higher and higher to get that 'reward' - and I always found that unless I reached that threshold, I felt like shit, and craved hard. I guess what I'm trying to say is, using half your required dose doesn't necessarily make you feel halfway good, at least in my experience - it's an all or nothing kind of thing. Obviously, this is just my experience, and others might find amphetamine maintenance is the thing that works for them.

 

[spacejunk]

^ agreed foots.
You've been there, and you know how much of a deep pit it is to crawl out of.
But your brain chemistry does eventually heal from being fucked with so much.
It's hard for your body to do that if you're still taking amphetamines or strong drugs of any kind - they mess with your brain's reward response systems.
Time wounds all heels, or whatever

 

[Kazza69MeBaby!]

^ agreed foots.
You've been there, and you know how much of a deep pit it is to crawl out of.
But your brain chemistry does eventually heal from being fucked with so much.
It's hard for your body to do that if you're still taking amphetamines or strong drugs of any kind - they mess with your brain's reward response systems.
Time wounds all heels, or whatever

Yeah dude, it's called neuroplasticity.
But meth can permanently fuck your reward system up...which is why it's important not to get too heavy in it...but people know what they're doing with their lives, so yeah...

 

[spacejunk]

I pretty much agree with your post up until this;

...but people know what they're doing with their lives, so yeah...

Y'know, after 17 odd years of being a drug user, or being around drug users, I solemnly wish this were true - but some of the reckless things people attempt just to get high, can be unbelievable.

As for the general public's knowledge about the long or short term health consequences of methamphetamine use?

The bullshit you hear people (on the street or wherever) say as absolute truth in regard to drugs creates very fertile ground for urban myths.

Straight off the brick, mate; 99% pure; smoking banana peels; acid melts holes in your brain etc etc

Bluelight is helping spread the word on how to play safe - amongst a huge pile of other things - but there is still a plague of ignorance out there. We're eating away at it, gradually.

 

[smokedup]

thanks to all who gave their input regarding dex maintenance. I probably should have refrained from likening this sort of program to methadone, but it was the closest thing that came to mind. The major aspect of a program like this, would be the emphasis on establishing with the individual that what they are doing is a behavioural and mental issue that is making them 'sick'. They are unwell, and need to get better. By entering a clinic and being administered spanules (orally) in front of health professionals, they are at least more bluntly aware of what they are doing. Instead of rationalizing in their head ' ill just head to old mates and twirl a few pipes and have some beers' they are being subject to a new environment where their use is seen as alien and a concerning matter. I know this wouldn't help everyone in their situation, but certainly people who want to make a concerted effort in removing themselves from the black market and genuinely cant stop their addiction. I know there was a stage where this sort of program would have helped immensely.

 

[Spackeradder]

^^^^

I really, really dig the idea of stim maintenance. I also really, really doubt it would work for most addicts. It's like footscrazy said -- that wee small taste won't hold you off, it'll set you off. And the fact that dexies are speed, not meth... just reminds you of what you could be having. Of course, everyone's different.

In other news, comedowns are just fucking brutal when you're out of bud. This is Satan's work.I shan't stand for this.

 

[madge91]

So I plugged meth for the first time ever last night.
My pipe has been disposed of

Comedowns are terrrrrrible.
Although ive really slowed up on the weed as of late so luckily im not even thinking about a cone.
Until now

 

[Daddyo]

I've plugged for nearly two years and have had no comedown other than trouble sleeping - how much did you use?

 

[smokedup]

Yeah plugging is both an intense and smooth experience. did you eyeball a dose?

 

[madge91]

Ahah yer I eyeballed it, although I only got a sample to try (which worked cause now im fighting the urge to get more ahah)
When I say comedown, im probably more talking about lack food/sleep
Ive had some food since then so I feel more clear headed but I didn't sleep. I procrastinate to much ahah.
Your both right though, I feel much better then I would of if I had smoked it.

 

[CartoonHead]

So I plugged meth for the first time ever last night.
My pipe has been disposed of

Comedowns are terrrrrrible.
Although ive really slowed up on the weed as of late so luckily im not even thinking about a cone.
Until now

Hi Madge!

Myself and a mate are keen to try plugging, but I am unsure of how much to dilute the solution. I am primarily an IV user, he is a pipe fiend.

How much gear (rough estimation) did you use and how much water?

I have been googling like a mofo and found many different amounts suggested - we would probably be doing a point each (that's about how much I would usually do in a shot) but I have read recommendations of using anywhere from 1ml to 10 ml of water.

I would like to use the minimum possible amount of water without being harsh enough that it will burn too much/cause irritation.

 

[madge91]

I used 2ml and it worked fine.
I wouldn't of used more then a point and I got good results.
Although, I either ate it or smoked it so your tolerance will probably play into effect here.
Im pretty sure the bioavailability is almost the same so I would just use the same amount that you do when you boot.
There was zero irritation and if there was the slightest bit id probably complain (I do not snort drugs for this reason) but yer, I fekt nothing.

 

[CartoonHead]

Thanks for your help I don't have toooo much in the way of tolerance as I haven't used for about 4 weeks and I never really wack more than a point unless I feel like destroying myself, think I am naturally a bit of a lightweight (thankfully).

Come to think of it I don't think I've had a wack for about 2 months, been twirling the pipe more often recently as the social group I've been hanging out with are new friends and not sure how most of them feel about the steel.....

Yeah I think the bioavailability for plugging is upwards of 95% but I could be wrong.....if anyone could jump in and confirm/deny that would be good.

My mate smokes a fuckload of the stuff so I figured a point would be a good dose for him plugged also.

 

[madge91]

The rush did take me by surprise though.
Seeing as how in a pipe you can get quite a few puffs off a point you would at most be getting 20mg into your system at time.
It was just a pleasant experience all over aha. I feel like im an advocate now

 

[opi8]

Bioavailability up the butt could be small if you have a big shit sitting in your colon, desperate to suck up all your meth, otherwise it should be pretty high.

There is no way I'd go from IV'ing to plugging though, I did go from snorting to plugging, and I plugged morphine before I IV'd, but going from vein to poop shute is strange.

 

[Christ!]

In my experience it doesn't though - using meth pushes your threshold higher and higher to get that 'reward' - and I always found that unless I reached that threshold, I felt like shit, and craved hard. I guess what I'm trying to say is, using half your required dose doesn't necessarily make you feel halfway good, at least in my experience - it's an all or nothing kind of thing. Obviously, this is just my experience, and others might find amphetamine maintenance is the thing that works for them.

Cheers for your input (and others) You guys who have been through it know best. Maybe it wouldn't be as helpful as I had imagined, or maybe just suited to a smaller percentage of users wanting to quit.

 

[Kazza69MeBaby!]

Scattereday has arrived...I have been on it ever since Wednesday...Wednesday/Thursday/Friday/Saturday...crashing ever since about 9 p.m. last night but still using fits to squirt shit up my nose cuz I'm so wrecked that I can't be fucked booting the shit.

What has changed? Nothing.

I only condone responsible use in a social setting, in which you're preferred ROA is used...either smoke the shit/shoot it or snort it...fuck buttplugging.

Fuck methamphetamine...if you can't use it right.

I promised myself I'd save a 1.5 point shot for a lil' boot scoot or pipinhand...meh...it's crystal meh...lol.

Started on this bender by smoking it...then shot about an eyeball dose of 1 point with the tolerance set in already, yesterday.

makes me miss the good old gack and heroin days lol.