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Opioids Methadone

Yeah I'm currently on 90ml/mg and I couldn't imagine going cold turkey off that amount. Did you do that somnilicious? I'll bet that hurt, in fact Id imagine it would actually last months.
I'm dreading coming off it, but I would really like to some day. I think 5mg/month drops until I'm starting to feel it, then I'll slow it down further. That's medically advisable way.
I've also heard great things about using memantine to reduce the withdrawal.
I also know people that have used ketamine to get off methadone successfully.
Yeah ...... They tried to keep playing games with my takehomes for smoking pot so I got tired of it and just decided I was done. I've been on and off methadone since 2002 so I'm very familiar with the withdrawal. I've had to detox it in jail with benzos and at home many times.
 
Yeah ...... They tried to keep playing games with my takehomes for smoking pot so I got tired of it and just decided I was done. I've been on and off methadone since 2002 so I'm very familiar with the withdrawal. I've had to detox it in jail with benzos and at home many times.
Haha, man, methadone was conceived in order to help people get off junk. I ended up using junk to help me get off the sodding methadone ; I hated it so much.

PS are you off these days -?
 
Haha, man, methadone was conceived in order to help people get off junk. I ended up using junk to help me get off the sodding methadone ; I hated it so much.

PS are you off these days -?
Yeah.... I've never had the patience to taper correctly. I'm currently off methadone daily as of 6mths ago but I stupidly bought a couple of bottles off the street since then. I drank the whole 80mg bottles I bought in one day each time but last time the 2 days after using were throwaways because I basically slept all day, which I can't have. Plus because of the long halflife I wind up suffering some slight withdrawal from one usage so I cut out that bullshit.
 
Yeah.... I've never had the patience to taper correctly.
I usually didn't have that patience or discipline either. Not just because of the time frame but to my mind, any dose taken purely to stave off withdrawal while not achieving a high in the least was a criminal waste of a good chemical. (yup I was 'that' type.) This way of thinking resulted in me taking myself cold off heroin a few times voluntarily to restore my tolerance and it was not fun. When I decided I wanted off methadone I went more gradual using the dope to wean me off so I could... errm keep doing dope.
 
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I’m also on Methadone 80mg daily (+ 20mg extra if needed for breakthrough pain) for 10-15 years due to chronic pain. I missed my morning dose one day prior to leaving for work, no idea, around 1/2pm ish I felt sore legs, slightly uncomfortable feeling, pain in joints, etc…..get home and see my morning dose on my dresser in bedroom….Fuuuuck, that’s scary.

Sure, Methadone has a very long half-life of 24h average depending on DDI and individual body liver enzymes, some metabolize quicker than others requiring multiple daily doses.

It’s actual analgesic properties are in the 6-8 hour range (10h max)

First opioid withdrawal I ever had were short acting opioids, oral Oxycodone, Hydromorphone oral & I.V. and Heroin I.V. cold turkey. BOOM, first 3 days were bad…..days 3-10 were INSAINE, even with Clonidine, Valium, Cannabis, hot baths (it was winter) a hot soak in the tub is AMAZING, your cold bones and aches disappear. In 2 weeks (14-17) you’re 100% physically good. Mentally is a different story when a single call will get you a gram of VERY good quality Heroin (20 years ago, H was great. Now fentanyl infected entire supply chain)

Methadone is an entire different story……long term chronic usage at higher doses (80-150mg) for many, many years will take a LOOOOONG time to completely eliminate from your body. I don’t even wanna entertain the idea of what a hell that 3-4 month cluster f@ck of pain & suffering that experience would be.

Should be the way the U.S. Military extracts intelligence from HVT’s at GitMo lol……slowly Build ‘em up to 100mg daily in their orange juice breakfast meal. Then cold turkey cut off……tell us what we need to know and this drink is all yours……after a month shivering in cold sweat curled up in a ball in the corner of a dark, dank, cement cell the size of a small bathroom with piss & liquid shit in their pants they’d tell you everything to get a FAT dose, shower, fresh clothing, a solid heathy meal eating outside in the beautiful sun feeling the warmth and rays of energy, extra privileges if intel is correct and yields results or eradicates terrorist cells, etc, etc

Ideally for Methadone……a single mg each day reduced without your knowledge. The doc and compounding pharmacist prepare your monthly script, liquid or jel capsules labelled each day I order with 1mg reduced each day.

At a certain point you’d feel uncomfortable slightly and tell doc. They might keep you there for a week or so, to stabilize you, then proceed to reduce 1mg daily or weekly depending on patients needs.

Such a cluster f@ck. Opioids & Benzodiazepams are such useful and potent medications but carry horrific withdrawal symptoms
 
Ideally for Methadone……a single mg each day reduced without your knowledge. The doc and compounding pharmacist prepare your monthly script, liquid or jel capsules labelled each day I order with 1mg reduced each day.

At a certain point you’d feel uncomfortable slightly and tell doc. They might keep you there for a week or so, to stabilize you, then proceed to reduce 1mg daily or weekly depending on patients needs.
Back in the day they used to have a detox protocol for morphine addicts where you'd just be given a progressively lower dose each day with the remainder being saline, without the patient's knowledge.

That threw up a lot of interesting research material on the whole mental aspect of addiction, because addicts often experienced a 'high' from pure saline so long as they believed it to be morphine, or conversely responded with physical withdrawal symptoms to the injections being stopped, despite not having received any morphine for days at that point.
 
I just “bootie bumped” three(3) PF Hydromorph-Contin 9mg blue capsules….pulverize the beads in glass mortar & pastel, added water, heated slightly (I know lol) drew up 1ml warm solution in an oral syringe and insertion into my rectum

Hydromorphone 27mg IM into rectum (won’t ever I.V. drugs EVER AGAIN) had scar tissue and track marks down both arms….friends asking my I was wearing long sleeve shirts all the time

I’m on Methadone 80mg daily for years…. but for 1.5 days I was without. Pregabalin, Diazepam, Ethanol, Ritalin we’re fine….but after slowly pushing that warm solution of Dilaudid 27mg into rectum……a warmth came over me, leg pains disappeared, felt the warmth of the Hydromorphone.

I have a decent stockpile of Oxy-IR 5mg tablets and Hydromorph-Contin 9mg capsules from way back…….Methadone in great. Potent as fuck.

My daily oral Brompton Cocktail is having a serious dependancy profile

Methadone 80mg
Methylphenidate (Ritalin) 50mg IR
Diazepam 10mg X 3-4 tablets
Pregabalin 400-600mg
Baclofen 10mg X 2-3
Ethanol

All mixed in same glass, orange juice……and a beautiful comfortable contentment slowly creeps in as the cocktails onset enters my bloodstream…..in an hour, I’m F@CK’n LAXED lol

Jin cocktail with cigarettes, sometimes blasting lines of Cocaine before each cigarette and a fresh Jin & ginger ale

Mostly all, legally prescribed…..but I am SIGNIFICANTLY dependent on MANY different controlled substances and it deeply concerns me.
 
Wierd that methadone "blocking by high affinity" kicks in at the dose (somewhere between 30 and 50mg) that would kill most opioid naive users. If not from the first dose but surely if they took it for 4-5 days and have it chance to accumulate. Weird but pretty effective for non fent (or hydromorphone, or who knows what other opioid) users. But unfortunately there will always be folks that are trying to put more H in their veins in hope that the system will be so overwhelmed so enough H molecules will sneak in and attach for wanted feeling to be achieved. But damn thats just asking forca fatal OD. Fuck this shit - give people what they need to function and stop replacing their opioid of choice. At least opioids are dirt cheap.


Edited cause of prematuring replying.
 
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Hello, im currently on 80mg a day at the clinic. Was debating on going up to 90mg or maybe even 100mg but I was wondering if this dose I'm on is considered a high dose or not?
It's not that high, I've been doing methadone for about 4 years, dose was 150mg at one point but I've tapered. Got to take into account that everyone has different body chemistry. If your not having cravings, then you're probably at a therapeutic dose.
 
I've also heard great things about using memantine to reduce the withdrawal.
I also know people that have used ketamine to get off methadone successfully.

I personally vouch for the effectiveness of this method. While it didn't completely eliminate wd for me, it reduced both duration as well as intensity by like 80 to 90%.
 
I knew a gerbil named Pete who found that small doses of methadone plus THC went a long way. Pete is still on the gerbil-wheel with Richard Gere close behind!
 
I know many people who get high on methadone. There's drugs with higher binding affinity that will break through methadone. Buprenorphine fentanyl and hydromorph are 3 but there are more

The two drugs COMPETE. once you reach a dose of methadone that occupies most of the receptors, it will blunt the effects of other opioids, even those with a higher affinity (lower Ki) for the opiate receptors.

Most papers suggest that 80-90mg of methadone are sufficient so sufficiently blunt even opioids with a very high affinity to prevent that dynamic change that are subjectively described as 'rush' and will reduce the euphoric subjectively described as 'high'.

Of course everyone is wired differently so some people would need more or less methadone to blunt the effects but their is quite a lot of high quality evidence based on meta-analyses of various substitution methodologies.



Some people do struggle more with psychological cravings than others and are more sensitive to the 'rush' and 'high' in which case it's still generally considered to prescribe more of the substitute than to have people drop out of treatment.

Methadone and LAAM are both cardiotoxic and indeed I know at least 2 BLers who were prescribed methadone for pain who went on to suffer (minor) heart attacks. Certainly anyone prescribed high doses of those drugs should undergo a electrocardiogram.

Essentially methadone and LAAM both have cardiotoxic metabolites that produce long-QT. It's asymptomatic but can lead to torsades de pointes which in turn can lead to serious cardiac events.
 
@AlsoTapered what is considered the dose when methadone truly starts to exibit it's cardiotoxic effect? I'm on 40 mg now with 100SR morphine sulphate. I believe that I will go down and substitute methadone for morphine, or I truly hope that is the intention of my doctor who suddenly decided that add on morphine is the way to go. But at the same time methadone is the only opioid that gives me complete pain resolution. Other ones make me feel better but methadone takes away the pain.

I have host of problems with my body but where I live opioids are used for 2 things - maintenence/replacement therapy and cancer related pain. Heck I would have never been prescribed morphine if I wasnt legit chronic pain sufferer with visible and diagnosed issues and would have to choose between buprenorphine which just doesnt cut it and methadone that makes me bloated, fatter and cognitively less able. But methadone sure does it's job as a painkiller.

Is 15-20mg of methadone high enough dose to do much damage? I am definitely not well versed in pharmacology (although I could fool a completely pharmacology naive person like most are) and would benefit from short answer if there is one.
 
@AlsoTapered what is considered the dose when methadone truly starts to exibit it's cardiotoxic effect? I'm on 40 mg now with 100SR morphine sulphate. I believe that I will go down and substitute methadone for morphine, or I truly hope that is the intention of my doctor who suddenly decided that add on morphine is the way to go. But at the same time methadone is the only opioid that gives me complete pain resolution. Other ones make me feel better but methadone takes away the pain.

I have host of problems with my body but where I live opioids are used for 2 things - maintenence/replacement therapy and cancer related pain. Heck I would have never been prescribed morphine if I wasnt legit chronic pain sufferer with visible and diagnosed issues and would have to choose between buprenorphine which just doesnt cut it and methadone that makes me bloated, fatter and cognitively less able. But methadone sure does it's job as a painkiller.

Is 15-20mg of methadone high enough dose to do much damage? I am definitely not well versed in pharmacology (although I could fool a completely pharmacology naive person like most are) and would benefit from short answer if there is one.

The doses of methadone for visceral pain are generally much lower than doses used for methadone maintenance and if that dose works for you - it's a good choice.

Why a doctor would add morphine I don't know. Is it for breakthrough pain?

The toxicity of methadone is dose-dependant and risk of cardiotoxicity isn't uniform, their is a genetic predisposition.

I'm not a doctor and so I would be fairly confident that a doctor would seek to provide the best outcome.

IF your doctor doesn't know about the methadone and vice versa, I would be honest. When given for pain methadone is prescribed [BID] or even [TID[. This means it's less toxic AND increases it's analgesic properties.
 
@AlsoTapered what is considered the dose when methadone truly starts to exibit it's cardiotoxic effect? I'm on 40 mg now with 100SR morphine sulphate. I believe that I will go down and substitute methadone for morphine, or I truly hope that is the intention of my doctor who suddenly decided that add on morphine is the way to go. But at the same time methadone is the only opioid that gives me complete pain resolution. Other ones make me feel better but methadone takes away the pain.

I have host of problems with my body but where I live opioids are used for 2 things - maintenence/replacement therapy and cancer related pain. Heck I would have never been prescribed morphine if I wasnt legit chronic pain sufferer with visible and diagnosed issues and would have to choose between buprenorphine which just doesnt cut it and methadone that makes me bloated, fatter and cognitively less able. But methadone sure does it's job as a painkiller.

Is 15-20mg of methadone high enough dose to do much damage? I am definitely not well versed in pharmacology (although I could fool a completely pharmacology naive person like most are) and would benefit from short answer if there is one.

The doses of methadone for visceral pain are generally much lower than doses used for methadone maintenance and if that dose works for you - it's a good choice.

Why a doctor would add morphine I don't know. Is it for breakthrough pain?

The toxicity of methadone is dose-dependant and risk of cardiotoxicity isn't uniform, their is a genetic predisposition.

I'm not a doctor and so I would be fairly confident that a doctor would seek to provide the best outcome.

IF your doctor doesn't know about the methadone and vice versa, I would be honest. When given for pain methadone is prescribed [BID] or even [TID[. This means it's less toxic AND increases it's analgesic properties.
 
Take buprenorphine on methadone and see how that competition works. Bupe will kick methadone off the receptors because it has a higher affinity.
Methadone isn't a blocker
 
People talk a lot about the "liquid handcuffs" that are Methadone. I don't dispute that it's something you get completely locked into. I also believe that many of us are already in handcuffs when we get to the clinic. Usually, these are worse than anything the clinic will ever do to you.

@ovo1024 It's a tricky question. The standard for Methadone Maintenance has held that 80mg-120mg Methadone/day is the sweet spot. I'm not sure of the complex science behind this, but I will say that this range seems to work for a lot of people, myself included. I was a 3-4g a day Heroin/Morphine injector for a little over a decade. My usual would be like 2g per day. At any rate, I was using decent dope and this dosage was significant.

Back then, around 2012 maybe, I would've been considered on the higher end of the spectrum in terms of tolerance. This has changed completely since the arrival of Fentanyl and similarly powerful synthetic Opioids. Fentanyl is not limited by the need for agriculture and a complex web of commercial interests. Fentanyl can be made easily if the right chemicals are available. We also know that Opioid tolerance/dependence is essentially an infinite line. We can keep feeding people more Opioids, make them tolerant and then increase that dosage, seemingly without end.

We have people on the street who are literally 5-10 times more addicted than I or my people ever would have been in the days of Heroin. Most people who use Fentanyl here in my town have completely detached from the clinic system. Even having the clinic as a back up is not worth the trouble to these people. Previously, even active users of Heroin who didn't really toe the line at the clinic would keep a presence there so they could pick up a dose in a pinch. Things have changed.

You mentioned that you felt you were feeling pretty well-covered. This is great. The choice is up to you here. Given that you're still having cravings and using Fentanyl, it could be worth a shot to raise another 10mg-20mg and see how that treats you.

I would highly advise making a plan ahead of time for how you're going to proceed. By this I mean, you need to decide when the dose is gonna be raised. Once you know this, you need to commit in a meaningful way to only using the Methadone. It will be a painful process for the first few days. It's nothing you can't handle though.

If you absolutely can't stop the Fentanyl no matter what you do at the clinic, I would suggest not doing the clinic at all. The clinic can be a miracle for the right person. For the wrong person, it's just adding another 45lb weight to the anchor holding down your life. You can hit me up anytime if you wanna talk brother.
 
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Take buprenorphine on methadone and see how that competition works. Bupe will kick methadone off the receptors because it has a higher affinity.
Methadone isn't a blocker

As I stated before - if someone takes two or more opioids, they COMPETE for receptor occupancy.
 
I have a question for the americans here: are methadone and shitboxone the only substitutes you guys get over there? What about Levomethadone? We call it Polamidon and it's known to have much less side effects due to the fact that it lacks the dextro enantiomer which causes all the nasty shit like QT prolongation, fluid retention, obesity, etc.
Is there really no way for methadone patients in the US to get levomethadone?

@somnilicious
How does a methadone wd compare to a heroin wd? I've heard that methadone gives you a less intense but a much more prolonged wd.
 
H is 2 weeks of hell.
M is 3-5 MONTHS of Hell

Experienced H.

Currently on M 10-15 years 80-100mg daily…..most likely for life. Hopefully won’t ever experience M withdrawals.

Amazing how’s these superior German pharmaceutical scientists synthesized Methadone so they’d have a reliable source of Mu-Opioid agonists during the Second World War …..that fat f@ck Herman Goering was a hopeless morphine addict due to WWI injury as a fighter pilot. WWII the head of the Lufftwaffa (German Airforce)

Adolf Hitler was injected daily with I.V. Pervitin (d-Methamphetamine) Eukadol (Oxycodone) various vitamins and Testosterone IM injections so he could perform with Eva Braun, that thick German piece a @$$, was actually pretty slamming hot. An athletic, muscular, tones, curvaceous woman with an @$$ you could POUND for days. I’ve seen her home videos she took at Hitlers mountain retreat on the Military Channel AHC.

He’d kick rich Jews out of their country estates, send them to Treblinka (strictly a real death camp, unlike Auschwitz) and then gift these breathtaking estates to his Gererals, Tank Commanders, and the entire high command. Pretty freaking sick. (In a bad way obviously)

Levo-Methadone is still prescribed in Germany to this day. The rest of the world gets Racemic Methadone.

40mg of Levo-Methadone is equal to 80mg of Racemic Methadone, just like Focalin 40mg is equal to Ritalin 80mg

I’d love 10,000 genuine SKF Dexedrine 5mg tablets and the same quantity of Desoxyn 5mg tablets in addition to 1,000’s of Swiss manufactured Diaphin 10 gram glass jars (pharmaceutical Diacetylmorphine HCL powder / Heroin) to be mixed with saline prior to usage
 
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