Methadone reduction

[Chiller1011]

Hello to you all ! Am new to the Forum thought it might be able to help me ! Well my story is ive been on Methadone for about 4 years now I was on 80mg for majority of that time !
About 3 months ago though I decided I wanted to get myself of it so ive been weeing myself down very slowly and I am now on 45mg I feel pretty good the main thing I guess is im feeling the cold more than ever,
I also take a Anti Anxiety drug named Xanax ive heard these 2 don't go well together but Ive been ok so far !

Now that I am getting lower and lower is there anything I can be doing to benefit me ect
I usually take my Xanax in the morning and my Methadone in the afternoon I find I sleep better doing it this way !
What dosage should I get down to before I consider stopping it ?

Thanks.

 

[stefx85]

Firstly welcome to bluelight!!
Yea the old methadone. I will tell you quite bluntly to take it as slow as possible and never go turkey unless your down to 1mg. I personally turkeyd off 30mg and I had a seizure. I was on mmt for 2y so take it easy ..

 

[Jabberwocky]

one thing you might notice, and it happens to many of us going through the same situation, is you will get heavy HEAD NODS! as your dosage decreases there is a certain point in the day where you will be unable to sit still and actually keep your head up; doesnt look good when you work at a desk. I was at 95/MG and once I hit 35-50MG or so, I could not keep my head up come 2PM!

I left my methadone at 17MG; it was kinda a nightmare but I left and went right into a detox to finish it off. in the detox I took clonodine and librium; then once I left I still took benzos to help me sleep at night.

I've had friends who rode it out the whole way down to ZERO and still felt a little "eh" at the end. there is no easy way when it comes to leave methadone, it just depends on how fast you want off and how you want to play it (meaning - you dont mind the torture OR you dont mind staying on it a bit longer and letting it wind down to ZERO).

either way, congrats on getting off! I was only on 6 months before I realized it wasnt for me and made the switch back to suboxone within a month or so.

 

[stlouisgirl]

Can anyone please HELP me?

Background: I have been tapering/detoxing off a 12 year 300mg/days MMT since january of this year (2015). 8 months of my own personal horror show. While I have endured the blackest waves of depression, profuse sweating, chills, intense bone pain, months of insomnia, vomiting and diarrhea to endure somehow. That is until now.

I am now down 4mg/day and am STUCK-I have been here for WEEKS now-weeks longer than any other dose (40mg, 25mg) I hit a wall with-- because I am experiencing a symptom I have never had and that is AKATHISIA. Peculiarly, I am experiencing NO other wd symptom's at this point except this akathisia.

Here is the strange thing: I have been split dosing since 10 mg, so now of course split dose 2mg twelve hours apart every 24 hrs. At first the akathisia would come on hard about the 10th hour, I would endure it until for 2 hours and would dose. Initially it would go away for another 10 hours before returning, but NOW, what makes NO sense, is that the akathisia is coming on quicker and quicker after I dose. I now can only go a couple of hours without it returning. WHAT is going on? I am REGRESSING due to this!

Could this be some permanent brain damage sequelae from 12 years on 300mg/day? Will it go away at some point?? I am doing this on my own and need advice. This is unendurable.

Could I end up with this PERMANENTLY? ANY help/ideas or if this happened to you would be soo much appreciated.

one thing you might notice, and it happens to many of us going through the same situation, is you will get heavy HEAD NODS! as your dosage decreases there is a certain point in the day where you will be unable to sit still and actually keep your head up; doesnt look good when you work at a desk. I was at 95/MG and once I hit 35-50MG or so, I could not keep my head up come 2PM!

This can be especially true when a person finally hits the ultra low dosages of 10mg and lower. Nothing is more shocking after enduring months of withdrawals to all of a sudden to start feeling intoxicated by your puny dose.

My remedy, which I know alot of people at clinics cant do, was to start split dosing at this point. This worked beautifully for this problem for me at least.

***I feel ALL clinics should be REQUIRED to offer a split dosing schedule to those who are trying to detox off methadone ****

 

[Jabberwocky]

300MG - what type of clinic would put a person on 300MG? what were you doing prior? I did 1-2G's a day and 95MG was absolutely fine for me.

w/ the taper its tough; not sure what type of life you live or what type of time you have, but I honestly think your best bet would be to just GET OFF and go to a detox or somewhere to get actual help. of course, if you go to detox you ask for the clonodine and librium and not suboxone or anything else.

or maybe, just maybe, if youre willing to try and get on suboxone and see if you can taper from that; I always hear its easier.

when I came off my methadone I left at 17MG and just went to a detox; came out of detox and felt OK. before u know it I was using again and finally got on suboxone and have been absolutely fine since. I am in no rush to get off bupe since its always in my hand, my house, and up to me how its used. its just so much easier than what I was once doing w/ methadone and the way it worked.

then again, being completely sober would be better and I wish you nothing but the best.

 

[stlouisgirl]

300MG - what type of clinic would put a person on 300MG? what were you doing prior? I did 1-2G's a day and 95MG was absolutely fine for me.

Yes way too much far too long. However, you need to understand there really is not a correlation between one's MMT dosage and weather you were on H or oxycontin, nor the amounts you were using prior to entering MMT.

Just because something was your experience doesnt necessarily make it mine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes way too much far too long. However, you need to understand there really is not a correlation between one's MMT dosage and weather you were on H or oxycontin, nor the amounts you were using prior to entering MMT.

Just because something was your experience doesnt necessarily make it mine.

what do you mean? of course there is a correlation between ones regular dosage, whether it be oxy or H, and then methadone. based on your use/abuse is how they determine the dosage. ultimately, they leave it up to the person who can go up 5MG every few days, which is a problem in my eyes because they will continue to abuse. trust me, I was a raggggggggggggggging fucking heroin addict. who would shoot grams given the chance; it was a terrible time of life. I struggled when first started methadone and kept using till about 50-60MG; once I hit that mark I started to feel OK. I only did the 6 month program so I could not go above 95MG because I knew I would abuse it; so it worked out perfectly for me.

I know way too many people on a dosage that is just far too much based on what their addiction once was; people who were using 5MG percs/daily and eating 4-5 and now taking 100MG methadone? it just doesnt add up, trust me. and believe it or not, they DO have to do w/ one another.

 

[stlouisgirl]

I know way too many people on a dosage that is just far too much based on what their addiction once was; people who were using 5MG percs/daily and eating 4-5 and now taking 100MG methadone? it just doesnt add up, trust me. and believe it or not, they DO have to do w/ one another.

I could not agree more that there are many people on way too high a dose of MMT. That being said, I stand by my statement that previous amounts used of your DOC OR your DOC do not necessarily correlate with the dosage of MMT that works for you. This is a fact my friend. This fact has nothing to do with the fact some or many people may be on too high of a MMT dose.

There are just as many on subtherapeutic doses and continue to use...

ultimately, they leave it up to the person who can go up 5MG every few days, which is a problem in my eyes because they will continue to abuse.

I also tend to agree with this assertion...However, there are just as many who, knowingly decide to dose subtherapeutically and thus continue to use. Not sure there is an easy solution...

 

[Jabberwocky]

explain it to me if you dont mind. I am not trying to be rude here, but honestly wondering why/how you do not see the correlation!?

that is like saying.. well, I only take 1 5MG perc/daily. so I can shooting a half G of heroin because there is no correlation between the two.

your tolerance to opiates has everything to do w/ your dosage; also, you have to give your dosage the chance to "set-in" and actually put you on a daily routine rather just continue to up the dosage to you feel "good". its not about continuing to get that same feel you once did from using daily; its about getting to the point where you feel.. what we say.. normal, I guess! not high! a dosage where you are able to get by and not set yourself up for future disaster, which is what is happening now.

dont get me wrong, I am very proud of you for coming down from such a high dosage of methadone to where you are now; not many can do that.. but this process would have played out much different if you capped yourself out at a much lower dosage of methadone, such as 100MG/max, or somewhere in that ball park. believe it or not, 300MG is probably more than 95% than those who are on the clinic. and those 95% are/were RAGING ADDICTS one point who are now at a much more controlled clinic and helped them w/ their problem.

 

[manboychef]

I have to agree with Mr. BrownTown on this. There is a direct correlation between how much you used before you started MMT and what a stabilizing (yes stabilizing, not crazy high) dose will be for you.

When I was actively using I did about 15 bags a day just to stay well. When I was out I had a connection for methadone. In order to maintain wellness I needed to eat ten 10mg pills. Anything below I would experience symptoms of withdrawal. When I first started doing heroin I was only doing 1-2 bags a day and I would only need to take one of the 10mg pills to stave off withdrawal. There is indeed a direct correlation between dosage during active use, and dosage needed for maintainence.

 

[Raki]

For the person asking what kind of clinic would place a client/patient on 300mg, there are people who need very high dosages for different reasons. In America, in NYC for example, fast metabolisers receive a Trough Test at 220mgs and if their serum level registers low they are increased. Other cases, there are medicines which inhibit serum levels. For example, Protease Inhibitors for HIV positive patients/clients require at times dosages approaching 600mg. There are plenty of people in NYC with 400 and change.

 

[manboychef]

raki: that makes sense. Is it the same way with bupenorphine?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I dont know.. even those people who are on those that type of dosage I question.

understanding the drugs work different, ultimately, they are somewhat of a similar drug. so why would say take 30-60MG/day of a regular 30MG perc and then need 400-800MG of methadone? I am just not understanding how that could be possible.

also, for someone to do something like that, they would be put on their ass after making the switch like that. truly, put on their fucking ass, no!?

 

[Raki]

Manboychef: No. Buprenorphine has a metabolic ceiling (think codeine). 16mg is supposed to be it but of course there are people who claim that they take 24mg and feel a noticeable difference.

Generally speaking, a person with a heavy habit isnt going to find much benefit with bupe. With methadone there is no ceiling. I regularly dose at 660mg, tripling up, although there does seem to be a ceiling for its psychoactive effects, subjectively speaking (which makes my statement worthless as shi*e hahaha).

Bostonbrowntown: The idea with Maintenence at least is to reach a dosage where the client/patron feels comfortable, not simply to reach parity with equigesic dosing. If someone is doing a couple of Percocets a day it could be for any number of reasons. Maybe there isnt alot of availability. Maybe they simply cant afford to do more. Most American clinics will let you max your dosage no questions asked so long as the client/patient is sated and minimising their use of illicit substances.

 

[stlouisgirl]

dont get me wrong, I am very proud of you for coming down from such a high dosage of methadone to where you are now; not many can do that.. but this process would have played out much different if you capped yourself out at a much lower dosage of methadone, such as 100MG/max, or somewhere in that ball park. believe it or not, 300MG is probably more than 95% than those who are on the clinic. and those 95% are/were RAGING ADDICTS one point who are now at a much more controlled clinic and helped them w/ their problem.

Lets agree that I wont tell you what an idiot you were for being a raging heroin addict if you wont continue to insinuate what an idiot I was to let my MMT clinic put me at 300 mg? I believe this board is for support not continuing to stand on one's soap box.

Sometimes it is soo much easier to lecture and chide others when time might be best spent on your own issues?

Bostonbrowntown: The idea with Maintenence at least is to reach a dosage where the client/patron feels comfortable, not simply to reach parity with equigesic dosing. If someone is doing a couple of Percocets a day it could be for any number of reasons. Maybe there isnt alot of availability. Maybe they simply cant afford to do more. Most American clinics will let you max your dosage no questions asked so long as the client/patient is sated and minimising their use of illicit substances.

This is an accurate statement. THere are nearly 2000 patients at our clinic and there is absolutely no correlation between what a persons previous DOC was and how much they were using and the dose of Methadone that holds them and creates a blockade effect. I REGULARLY see "20 yr raging H addicts" on 40 mg while younger oxy users on 120mg.

And please BostonBrownTown do not tell me well, the H addicts are just being honest while those "oxy guys" are only trying to get high......

For the person asking what kind of clinic would place a client/patient on 300mg, there are people who need very high dosages for different reasons. In America, in NYC for example, fast metabolisers receive a Trough Test at 220mgs and if their serum level registers low they are increased. Other cases, there are medicines which inhibit serum levels. For example, Protease Inhibitors for HIV positive patients/clients require at times dosages approaching 600mg. There are plenty of people in NYC with 400 and change.

Yes! I was given a TT actually at 120, 200, and 260. All showed low plasma levels. THat being said, I am now TOTALLY convinced that this drug is TOXIC at these higher levels and I am very sad I ever allowed myself to be on that high of a dose for that long.

To support my assertion that Methadone is toxic, has anyone seen they are now using Methadone as a CHEMOTHERAPY drug to fight Leukemia? They have the AUDACITY to say, well, it kills the Leukemia cells but seems to leave other normal cells alone. RIGHT>>>>Have you ever heard of a chemotherapy that wasnt toxic to ALL cells?

I also found VERY well thought out and run study that showed high doses of methadone OBLITERATED neuron cells. THere is a picture of before and 24 hours later after the addition of the methadone and it looks like a nuclear bomb went off in these neuro cells. I will find the link to this study and post it. Its a bit tough reading but worth pouring over.

Perhaps thats why my cognition is gone....

I have to agree with Mr. BrownTown on this. There is a direct correlation between how much you used before you started MMT and what a stabilizing (yes stabilizing, not crazy high) dose will be for you.

When I was actively using I did about 15 bags a day just to stay well. When I was out I had a connection for methadone. In order to maintain wellness I needed to eat ten 10mg pills. Anything below I would experience symptoms of withdrawal. When I first started doing heroin I was only doing 1-2 bags a day and I would only need to take one of the 10mg pills to stave off withdrawal. There is indeed a direct correlation between dosage during active use, and dosage needed for maintainence.

Nonsense.

Here we go again. I would ask that you please stop using your OWN experience to make general sweeping statements. Newsflash!! Your OWN experience may be proof of your OWN experience but is not proof of direct correlation of ones correct MMT dose and prior dosing habits, DOC or amounts.

THIS is why they dont use some sort of formula i.e. ok, Mr. Jones, you were on 200mg oxy's a day its 80 mg of methadone for you!etc. etc. "

I dont know.. even those people who are on those that type of dosage I question.

Why? When you know NOTHING about them, their history, their metabolism...ANYTHING! Who are you to question what another addict decides is their correct MMT dose? Are you kidding me?

And where were these "grand all knowing insights" when you were being a "raging H addict"? (your words not mine) Once again, much easier to tell others how best to fix their problems.

I dont want to keep beating a dead horse but I am just losing patience with your superiority attitude when we are ALL majorly flawed my friend!

 

[Sprayah14]

^^seems like someone doesn't like being called out...Jesus, defensive much?

 

[《Plasticity》]

Stlouisgirl, in BDD we ask that you make your own threads concerning any questions of yours rather than asking these types of personal questions in other peoples threads. This thread has been taken off course and quite frankly it's a bit disrespectful to the original poster.

You're more than welcome to start a new thread to continue this discussion aimed at ypur specific situation. If you could also please use the edit button to add to your existing post rather than multi posting it would be greatly appreciated .

 

[Jabberwocky]

I am sorry but Stlousigirl, if you think someone who was taking 20MG of percoset should be on 300+MG of Methadone then they are going to the wrong clinic or seeing the wrong Dr. I've never heard such nonsense in my life.

 

[Chiller1011]

Thats a huge dose i was on 80mg and that was enough for me !!!