Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ

[Pegasus]

I'm just coming across this research wise. All opiates at abuse level suppress the HTPA be it oxy, bupe, dope, methadone, whatever. Long term has a worse effect because it offers no break, and short term used regularly would have the same effect. I recently became re-employed and will have benefits shortly. I plan on going to a specialist in that area (TRT aka testosterone replacement therapy) hoping for testosterone injections. FYI the HTPA affects hormone production. Primarily testosterone and estrogen. It does so by lowering LH and FSH. These are catalysts for making test and estro in males and females. I have access to steroids. If I test low for testosterone I am going to get a doctor to prescribe me injections (the cream and patch are not very effective) or am going to medicate myself having access to steroids.

There are no natural legal alternatives that are effective. Some claim DHEA is effective and if levels are low then it would be beneficial to supplement it but it alone will not have a dramatic increase in testosterone while continuing opiate use be it MMT/pain management or drug abuse. Naltrexone is actually shown to increase testosterone for the opposite reason opiate abuse suppresses it. While MMT/PM isn't abuse in the legal sense of the word, to the body it is no different.

Good point to bring up. Most opiate users, while maybe not admitting it, have libido issues. At first it was a blessing in that area. After a year or so it went the opposite direction. Now I have hardly any interest in sex. Done wonders in my love life. Women want what they can't have and my drug usage is pretty well hidden. I do not look like a junky. I dress nice, have my own place with a lot of nice material stuff. Girls think I won't give them the time of day because I am Mr Too Fucking Cool but in reality I just am not interested. I just want my pills/dope/whatever. A heroin rush gives me more pleasure than sex.

So I am going to either legally or illegally begin hormone replacement therapy while weaning slowly off of methadone and oxycodone.

Bupe doesn't effect testosterone appreciably though, check this study... As for the issue with women, that is really unfortunate, I'm sure that one day you will be back to your normal, sexual self. I doubt opiates will provide more pleasure than sex for forever!

 

[darky185]

Bupe doesn't effect testosterone appreciably though, check this study... As for the issue with women, that is really unfortunate, I'm sure that one day you will be back to your normal, sexual self. I doubt opiates will provide more pleasure than sex for forever!

Any idea how long sexual side effects will last from coming off done? I haven't fucked in over a year and I didn't even really miss it... but I'm wondering if I'm gonna be cumming in 2 minutes for a long time or not, had fairly decent stamina before I got on opiates and I wonder how long itll take to get it back.

Dropped my dose 10mg's today, 110 mg's to go... my clinic recommends I go down 10mg a week but if I did it their way I'd still be on done for 3 more months. On July first I want to not be going there at all, and hopefully feeling a little like myself by the end of July.

 

[lozgod]

Bupe doesn't effect testosterone appreciably though, check this study... As for the issue with women, that is really unfortunate, I'm sure that one day you will be back to your normal, sexual self. I doubt opiates will provide more pleasure than sex for forever!

Interesting article. Says the K-receptor antagonism helps prevent the HTPA shut down. Naltrexone is a u-receptor antagonist and increases HTPA activity and also increases HTPA activity.

Like I said I am new to all this HTPA effect and just started researching it. If bupe is a better alternative then I would definitely consider that vs methadone but from experience I had bad results from bupe but the longest I used it was 6 weeks.

Thanks for the info. Sex provides more pleasure for the most part but the rush from a good shot of dope is better than an orgasm IMO.

Also, not trying to discount the study, but it is only one study and I didn't catch who sponsored the study. There is a lot of speculation that the studies sponsored by the makers of Suboxone usually show favorable results for bupe vs methadone. Either way it's not a problem the use of testosterone can't fix. Maybe even HCG or HMG.

 

[DeLee]

How long does it take for you to feel the Methadone ?

For me it takes up to 4-5h after dosing - normal ?
(I have only been in MMT for ~4 weeks @ 70mg now - I don't know if that has anything to do with it)

 

[DeLee]

Sorry for the double post, bear with me.

I want to ask you who are on MMT or have been.
- At what dose did you feel that the Methadone was helping you with cravings?

Im qurios because I am on 80mg right now and I can't feel it at all,
my pupils aren't even contricted, if anything they are enlarged.

Can there be a "magical line" that is different for all of us and when you pass that level you start to feel the "good" effects of Methadone?

Because in my mind I would need like 200mg's if this is how I feel on 80mg.

 

[amapola]

How long does it take for you to feel the Methadone ?

For me it takes up to 4-5h after dosing - normal ?
(I have only been in MMT for ~4 weeks @ 70mg now - I don't know if that has anything to do with it)

It is normal that the pharmokinetic properties of methadone differ greatly individual to individual.

At what dose did you feel that the Methadone was helping you with cravings?
Im qurios because I am on 80mg right now and I can't feel it at all,
my pupils aren't even contricted, if anything they are enlarged.

If the only way to help with the cravings is to feel a little high, then both methadone and bupe are going to be an issue. Their long half lives mean that they build up to constant high and steady levels with daily dosing, with the idea to maintain a constant plasma level and minimize peaks and valleys. If a methadone dosage levels gets you a little high, it would seem that you would be high for an extended period during the day, but several days later your tolerance would rise up and that dose would just be baseline again. I just don't know if cravings to get high on opioids can be managed by getting high on opioids maintenance treatment.

 

[affasd]

Haven't posted or been on BL in awhile, been on MMT since Feb 1st, and I've actually been doing pretty good, I went up to about 120mg and stabalized, I don't have cravings, can eat, got a job again good stuff but when I originally got on Methadone I wasn't in the best state and it seemed like the best option to me at the time, I still think it wasn't a bad idea, I just intented to stay out it for probably a year... but now I'm thinking I need to be clean in about 2 months...

I've had a girl come back into my life recently and long story short I'm going out of the country for 2 weeks for a nice long visit, I want and need to be clean for this, I only have 2 months to do it but if I really want her I know I can do this no matter how bad it is...

Was thinking the best way would be to jump quickly down as far as I can while still managing to work a bit, can probably cut my dose in half without it being too awful, I know the last 40 will be harder then the first 80.. I thought about just CTing but that sounds like a bad idea even with this amount of time but by the end of June I don't want to be taking methadone, I would like to be done a little sooner so I have plenty of time to feel the worst before I leave... I don't wanna spend 2 weeks in phyiscal withdrawls still, paws is a whole different story and I know that's gonna be hard but I need to be able to do this physically first... I am tired of this, even if my life is better now... but my only worry is I'm pushing this too fast, last summer I tried to get clean, came off suboxone, then my firiend killed himself like a week later and I was back on Oxys till Feb...

Anyone have any input about how long my withdrawls will last? My ideal plan would be to taper down fast, over 2 weeks or so and then I'd have 6 weeks to get myself together again... but I think I mite need the whole month to taper if I want to be able to work... Thoughts? Came out a little wordier then I'd like, maybe I'll go to TDS next time but this is methadone specific?

Dude are you fuckin crazy? The methadone sounds like it is working great for you and you are gonna give all that up just so you can be clean for 2 weeks for some girl. Dude you are nuts methadone withdrawal is serious and tapering even over a month is way to fast, you are gonna have major withdrawals for weeks or a month or more and still feel like shit for a while after that with increased anxiety/depression, you will probably lose everything you have gained while on the methadone such as your job and will probably end up using again within a month or two. Your health and happiness and ability to provide for yourself(job) come first, everything else including women come second. If the girl really likes you she will understand that you can't do it for your own good.

Obviously it is your choice but I don't know how you expect to have a good time with this girl when your suffering from PAWS or even the tail end of acute withdrawals, probably just lost your job, and feeling miserable. And what good is proving to her you can stay clean if you lose everything you worked for while on methadone , I dunno any girls who like guys with no job who are constantly in a bad mood from feeling like shit from withdrawals.

Obviuosly we all want to get off methadone eventually but you have only been on it since february which is not enough time to get enough distance between your old using friends/habits/thoughts/lifestyle and your new clean one. Maybe some people are able to do it but truth is the majority of us need a lot longer than that before we are safe to start weening off and when we do we need to ween off very slowly for any chance of staying clean.

 

[SubDude]

It is normal that the pharmokinetic properties of methadone differ greatly individual to individual.


If the only way to help with the cravings is to feel a little high, then both methadone and bupe are going to be an issue. Their long half lives mean that they build up to constant high and steady levels with daily dosing, with the idea to maintain a constant plasma level and minimize peaks and valleys. If a methadone dosage levels gets you a little high, it would seem that you would be high for an extended period during the day, but several days later your tolerance would rise up and that dose would just be baseline again. I just don't know if cravings to get high on opioids can be managed by getting high on opioids maintenance treatment.

After the honeymoon... The only way I was able to get a buzz followed by a nod on MMT was after I got monthly takehomes... I tapered down to about half my dose. and then I would take my prescribed dose along with 1mg xanax. I usually did this a couple of times a week and the trick is to not get dependent on benzos. I only took the benzo when I did the "double dose" which takes a some discipline. This also worked for several other long termers I knew... but it can be dangerous and i don't recommend it. Besides most people don't want to be on MMT for 3 yrs to get the monthlys. Trust me... IMO young people don't want or need long-term ORT unless the alternative is worse

 

[the_ketaman]

morphine kicks in then taking mmt dose, Will the meth override the morph?

Im wondering if I use morphione IV then take methadone a few hours later will the dose of methadone(80mg MMT) cease the mophine effects due to methadone filling the piate receptors or will it just add to the effect of the morphine? I know if it were the other way round i.e meth first then morph it'd be useless but never tried it this way round so all answers or experiences are very welcome. thx

 

[amapola]

Methadone doesn't blockade your opiate receptors like buprenorphine does. It just ups your tolerance super high and on very high doses saturates your euphoric opiate receptors. So whichever order they are taken in, the effects will combine and there will be more of an effect on sedation and analgesia.

I'm going to move this to the methadone megathread for you.

 

[zyra]

methadone

I have taking plenty of prescription pills but i would have to say that methadone has the most horrifying withdraws than another substances i have ever had to come off of.

 

[supermarket]

Hey guys, I made a post on this thread a few pages back (5 pages or so ) back in Feb, when I was 50mg asking about finding the right dose to still take oxy on occasion and feel it.

To the guy who basically flamed me and said I didn't deserve to be at the clinic, and I'm hopelessly addicted blah blah, not on methadone for the right reasons....

I just wanted to first off get off my chest how wrong you were, and I'm walking proof now. I haven't touched oxy, nor any other drug, in almost 3 months now. A week shy of 3 months exactly, as I have everything logged.

I tried explaining that I DID have the intention of quitting, and was merely asking about OCCASIONAL use. I find that if I try to take a Hitler-like stance to my subconscious , and tell myself "YOU CANT HAVE OR DO ANYTHING. YOU ARE AN ADDICT. YOU ARE DISEASED" I get no where, and actually feed my addiction. I just wanted to let that guy know that you really need to be careful about the advice you give, because you came off fairly offensive in your critique of my personal decision to be on the methadone program.

IT HAS worked for me, thus far.
And to anyone else who feels that they have exhausted ALL other options , and truly want to get clean, don't like someone like that guy tell you that you don't deserve to be at the clinic - or that someone else deserves your spot because they beat themselves up more than you about their addiction, and shun all drug use. it's BS guys.

Even if you still want to get high in the beginning, but you KNOW you have a problem, and want to get help - THAT in my opinion is FAR more honest and successful of an approach then beating yourself up and convincing yourself that if you still get high here and there, you don't deserve to be on a program to manage or face your addiction.



Having gotten that off my chest, I have another question for you all:

Luckily, my desire to use oxy left and never returned once I found what I was looking for (something to manage my withdrawals without devastating side effects, like bupe or trams had on me).

I am now 90mg, 3 months clean.
I had the option of going up higher, obviously as most do, but Ive been raising my dose VERY slowly. The last increases I've had were at the end of May, beginning of this month - from 75mg to 90mg respectively.


I know that no one else is in my shoes, and that only I truly know what's best, but I come on this thread because of the collective experience and knowledge you all have. That is why I've read every single post, on this thread, all 39 pages. I appreciate all the contributions from everyone - even if you don't realize it, your questions, comments, experiences, etc form a collective database that is VERY useful! Thank you guys.

On to the question. I dose every morning from 6am-8:30am. I start feeling my dose at about an hour and 15 to an hour and 30 minutes after I take it.
After about 4-5 hours, I start feeling a bit tired, drained, and very anti-social. I seem to not want to leave my house.

At around the 8 hour mark, I start getting these pins and needle / minor hot flash type symptoms. Nothing at all painful , but uncomfortable.

At around the 12-15 hour mark, I am uncomfortable. It is NOT terrible, and on a discomfort level of 1-10, I'd put it at 2-3. By this time, I don't want to do anything, so I usually force myself to go to sleep.


When I wake up , i have real teary eyes. Im very jittery, and avoid all contact with anyone until I dose. I start getting RLS depending on how long its been since my last dose.
Anything longer than 24-25 hours, like if I dosed at 6am yesterday, and today 8am, I will have RLS, and be uncomfortable.

Is this generally normal among MMT patients?
I truly am interested in my recovery, and I don't want to be on a higher dose than i need to. I'm already on 90mg, and my clinic caps off at 110mg (without special permission they said? whatever that means?)

My counselor has no problem raising my dose, and has suggested it, but I wanted to wait it out. She thinks I should be a bit higher, but I'm read from people on here, thats its common for them to keep upping and upping you, although that doesn't seem her intention.


My question is, to those experienced on MMT - Are my symptoms just the methadone wearing off, and normal regardless, or should I be on a higher dose?

Will an increase from 90mg to 110mg over a few weeks make any difference?

Thank you guys in advance. This thread has been much help.


I just want to feel normal - I want to feel better. Methadone has helped me SO MUCH since I first got on it, its been about 5 months now I believe.......

I really am thinking about raising my dose, but if it wont help Id rather avoid it

 

[supermarket]

Also, I drink a fair amount of caffeine every day, from the time I wake up, until early afternoon.

I also work outside, sweat a lot, and take vitamins (which I've read vitamin c makes the methadone metabolize quicker)

I think that has played a role in my dose wearing off quicker, and although I'm willing to cut back on the caffeine, and have already a tad (could cut back more)

I really dont want to stop exercising JUST so I'm comfortable at night, and to stop taking vitamins so my dose stays w/ me in the night.

I really need suggestions

 

[BananasAndOranges]

half a vicodin for being ill at my clinic is self medicating and losing all takehomes and going everyday after a year and a half of being clean in my piss tests.....they can seriously fuck off.....!!FUCK AMERICAN HEALTHCARE!! It's seriously for shit anymore.


I went from 115 to 97 and couldn't be more uncomfortable with how I am feeling. I almost think im being blind dosed. the nurse today said oh well you're tapering and i said yea 1 fucking milligram. Can they do this in america if so they totally just did it to me...

 

[supermarket]

half a vicodin for being ill at my clinic is self medicating and losing all takehomes and going everyday after a year and a half of being clean in my piss tests.....they can seriously fuck off.....!!FUCK AMERICAN HEALTHCARE!! It's seriously for shit anymore.


I went from 115 to 97 and couldn't be more uncomfortable with how I am feeling. I almost think im being blind dosed. the nurse today said oh well you're tapering and i said yea 1 fucking milligram. Can they do this in america if so they totally just did it to me...

Another reason I'm afraid of raising my dose. At the clinic, the nurses and counselor just say "Don't worry about the dosage. Its JUST a number, NOTHING more. Keep going up until your comfortable."

Not cool man sorry that happened to u

 

[the_ketaman]

Im reducing from 80mg, 10mg a week, im currently on 70mg and ill decide along the way whether ill switch to bupe then reduce or just go all the way on methadone, any comments or advice would be great.

Also how much will my tolerance drop and when will I be able to feel heroin? Please dont flame, I use very rarely but very large amounts due to the methadone, im wondering if the amount I will need will go down and will it be by a significant amount?

Thanks everyone

 

[BananasAndOranges]

Im reducing from 80mg, 10mg a week, im currently on 70mg and ill decide along the way whether ill switch to bupe then reduce or just go all the way on methadone, any comments or advice would be great.

Also how much will my tolerance drop and when will I be able to feel heroin? Please dont flame, I use very rarely but very large amounts due to the methadone, im wondering if the amount I will need will go down and will it be by a significant amount?

Thanks everyone

Nah man. It will not give you a rush it will always work but in a uncomfortable way. Scary sedating ways.

 

[supermarket]

So WTF?

Does anyone else have trouble PISSING at the clinic? I don't mean because your afraid of failing.....I mean PISSING, in general?

I go to the clinic RIGHT AFTER I wake up....so I usually hold in my fucking piss just in case. Today, for once I pissed when I woke up.

On the way to the clinic, I KNEW I'd be drug tested? Why? Because for some reason, the one time I pee before the clinic, i felt it coming.

So, I can't pee, and tell the nurse I'll give a damn blood test, and pay extra if she wants....but I have to go to work. She accuses me of being high!? And says no she needs a urine.

45 minutes later, after calling into work late , I produce a urine. She claimed she thought i was high because my eyes were red . The worse thing, I know when I left she stillt hough I was high.

The best thing is I havent done ANYTHING in months and months...so fuck them!

But jesus christ

 

[adder]

I've been constantly on methadone since February '10 and I've been addicted to opioids for over 7 years now. I was turned down both in my city and in Warsaw for methadone substitution. My financial situation isn't good at the moment and I can't continue paying for something that is free in my country. Starting from the last turning down I've been tapering down. Sadly methadone doesn't work for me for 24 hours so it doesn't make it easier. I'm having problems with going below 15ml in the morning. I'm terribly anxious, well, basically I'm withdrawing - runny nose, goose bumps, restless legs, boneaches, headaches...

Is it possible that a psychiatrist from the clinic prescribes me clonidine to attenuate this so I get off methadone eventually? It's available for a regular prescription in my country but it's not officially approved for aid in tapering down and withdrawal. However, it's widely used in detox wards. I'm wondering if psychiatrists prescribe it off-label outside hospitals. And yes, the guy working in that clinic knows I'm on my own and I have to buy methadone to survive. He doesn't care, last time he not only told me he wouldn't take me into the program but also he said he couldn't even take me for a detox because no methadone assigned for my city (for the program and for the detox ward) is available, there are too many patients on the detox ward and the program is full and he already had shortages at the time... (welcome in the country where the government says it means a lot in the EU and most people hardly survive the whole month after getting salary)

 

[thelung]

So WTF?

Does anyone else have trouble PISSING at the clinic? I don't mean because your afraid of failing.....I mean PISSING, in general?

I go to the clinic RIGHT AFTER I wake up....so I usually hold in my fucking piss just in case. Today, for once I pissed when I woke up.

On the way to the clinic, I KNEW I'd be drug tested? Why? Because for some reason, the one time I pee before the clinic, i felt it coming.

So, I can't pee, and tell the nurse I'll give a damn blood test, and pay extra if she wants....but I have to go to work. She accuses me of being high!? And says no she needs a urine.

45 minutes later, after calling into work late , I produce a urine. She claimed she thought i was high because my eyes were red . The worse thing, I know when I left she stillt hough I was high.

The best thing is I havent done ANYTHING in months and months...so fuck them!

But jesus christ

Oh yes i do have trouble pissing especially when i do my UA's for the Department of Corrections (I am on probation). There is something about a cop watching you pee that is a little bit un-settling. Usually if I drink H20 in the morning I can piss at the clinic, but at DOC is a whole different story. Somebody told me once that people who are on methadone have a hard time pissing because the methadone does something to your prostate and so it makes it difficult to urinate.