Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ v 2.0

[crzydiamond]

L

Thank you diamond. I am so nervous. If they do dose on the first appt, will it matter when the last time I used was? I'll definatley test positive, as I've used last night. Just wondering if methadone is like suboxone, where you have to be in mild w/d. I am reading horror stories about patients who have said methadone w/d's are pure HELL. I was on suboxone maintenance for about 8 months, 16mgs a day and quit cold turkey. I've never been so sick in my life. I was so physically sick, throwing up, chills, restless, ext that I had to go to the hospital. I HONESTLEY didn't know how BAD the W/D's would be from sub's, as it had been a few days since my last dose. I had such bad stomach cramps that once they pushed some dilaudid thru my line, I was in heaven. Needless to say, I didn't tell the docs about my sub's and they found out. Reprimanded me, scolded me, threatened to call my sub Dr. Refused to give me anything besides clonidine and basically kicked me out of the ER. Urgh. I NEVER want to feel like that again. Again, thank you for your reply. I'm happy to have found BL. Praying it will help me get thru all this nonsense.

Methadone is not like suboxone. You do not need to be in withdrawal. Suboxone is like that because it's a partial agonist with a higher binding affinity than most other opioids so it kicks them off the receptor and then attempts to replace them. But being only a partial agonist they don't fully fill receptor. That is why suboxone has to be taken when the opioid is already off the receptor--when you're in withdrawal

Methadone is a full agonist. It doesn't do that. You can take it right after another opioid (but you don't want to take a lot of methadone if you took a lot of another opiate...). Usually though the clinic does start you low. If you have a monster habit it may take a few increases until you feel normal for the full 24 hours, so hang in there!!

Methadone wd horror stories are there because if you stop cold turkey they last forever. I was forced to stop cold turkey once and it took 32 days to feel completely normal except for some sneezing. (About 16 days til I felt semi human). It's just that it has a very long half life, like subs. But if you taper off when you are ready and do it slowly, it's pretty painless. I have done that also before and had no issues. And I am currently in a clinic, on 60 mg down from 95, and am slowly tapering again.

Don't let those stories stop you from getting help. If you use it as intended and come off slowly you'll be fine.

Glad to be able to help! And welcome to Bluelight.

 

[crzydiamond]

I started mmt 2 weeks ago today. I had a 2 year iv H run where i did about 15 bags a day (weaned down a bit) at my worst i was at 25-30 bags a day. Anyhow, i don't know what that is in terms of grams we go by bags, bundles, bricks and sleeves where i live. I admit it was a pretty big habit and am quite ashamed but my question is: they have me on 80 mgs of methadone a day and i am fine during the day but still struggling at night. Am i always going to struggle at night? Is my dose not holding? I dont want to go to high but was also told that i shouldn't have cravings. So is my dose too low for my habit or is it just mental? I dont want to crave at night. I also have a runny nose and the yawns by the morning.

Give it a bit of time. That's a big habit you're coming off of. Methadone builds up in your system, so that takes a bit of time for the half lives to accumulate. If you still feel bad at night in another week or two, you can always go up. I mean, you could go up now if you want also, if you went up 5-10 mg it might also help, but methadone doses are stronger than people think and they are so quick sometime to jump up and eventually will have to come back down.

I always had the issue of waking up in slight wd. I used to think I wasn't getting enough so I would get increases. For myself, I found out it doesn't matter if I'm on 95mg or 60 mg, I just never wake up 100%. I'm not sick--but I feel a little shaky and occasionally have sneezing fits and have that super sensitive smell I get before the wd comes. Strangely though, I actually feel kind of better waking up now on 60 than I did on 95. I think it's because the reason I never feel well upon waking is that your body's pH drops while sleeping and methadone is very pH dependent. And I think when I'm on more it is a bigger drop so I feel worse in morning.

You haven't been on it too long, so you do need to stabilize. I would try maybe 5-10 mgs more and see if that helps. Also give it another couple weeks (whether you increase or not) just to let your body adjust.

If after a reasonable time you aren't being held 24 hours you can request a plasma peak and trough test, which shows your methadone level at peak time (about 3 hours after dosing) and trough time (before dosing). They take blood samples at those times. It can see if you need more, if you're a fast metabolizer, or if you should be on split dosing.

Hang in there!!

 

[Gozlinchick]

So I had my first dose of methadone (20 mg) today, came home and fell asleep. The pharmacist said I'll be a at a 20 mg dose for 7 days, then I can ask for a n increase. I already feel like I wanna do a pill to give me some energy. Would it kill me to do one?

 

[My3sons]

I spoke to my counselor today. Ive been on the 80 mgs for a week and 2 days. She made me an appt with the dr for monday (soonest one with my work schedule and their hours) she said its too low and i shouldn't be thinking about it at all when on the right dose . I shouldn't be getting super edgy at night. I do hope another 10 or 20 holds better bc split dosing isn't an option and i think i am a fast metaboliser. I weigh 118 and am 5'4 1/2! So not much fat for storage! I did gain 2 lbs! Yay me!!! My habit cost me quite a bit of weight and now i feel scrawny! It pretty much cost me everything! God i wish i did this a long time ago! I did try subs a few yrs ago but list my insurance and relapsed. Mmt cost a lot less plus i couldn't kick over into subs this time. I would wait 24 hrs and still go into pw. It was awful.

 

[crzydiamond]

You

I spoke to my counselor today. Ive been on the 80 mgs for a week and 2 days. She made me an appt with the dr for monday (soonest one with my work schedule and their hours) she said its too low and i shouldn't be thinking about it at all when on the right dose . I shouldn't be getting super edgy at night. I do hope another 10 or 20 holds better bc split dosing isn't an option and i think i am a fast metaboliser. I weigh 118 and am 5'4 1/2! So not much fat for storage! I did gain 2 lbs! Yay me!!! My habit cost me quite a bit of weight and now i feel scrawny! It pretty much cost me everything! God i wush i did this a long time ago! I did try subs a few yrs ago but list my insurance and relapsed. Mmt cost a lot less plus i couldn't kick over into subs this time. I would wait 24 hrs and still go into pw. It was awful.

I have a fast metabolism. But every time I've been on methadone it slows down and I gain like 25 lbs. and it's not just from getting healthy because I've had a good bit of clean time at my normal weight. On methadone I stay about 20-30 lbs above normal. And I get scrawny when using too. Don't worry you'll be healthy in no time!!

Yes your counselor is right--you shouldn't crave on the right dose. I don't at all. But you have also only been on the clinic a few weeks. It's a transition--you'll get there. You shouldn't be in wd at night. I think on me, no matter what my dose, it lasts about 20-21 hours. I'm fine with that. I sleep, wake up early and go to clinic at like 6:30 am, before I get my son ready for school

Just hang in there--you'll get there and you're better off than before!

 

[crzydiamond]

So I had my first dose of methadone (20 mg) today, came home and fell asleep. The pharmacist said I'll be a at a 20 mg dose for 7 days, then I can ask for a n increase. I already feel like I wanna do a pill to give me some energy. Would it kill me to do one?

It won't kill you. It may or may not give you energy on top of the methadone. If you don't feel withdrawal I would try to hold off from taking a pill if you can. If you don't feel good then of course, you may need to take some until you stabilize. If it's just a mental craving I would try to let it pass...let your body try to adjust to just the methadone.

But only you know how you feel. They know people aren't going to come in and dose one or two days and be great. It takes time for the methadone to build up in your body

Glad they started you already though!!

 

[My3sons]

Crzydiamond- yeah definitely not stabilized yet then. Every night is a struggle for me. I want to use so bad but dont bc i need to be clean. My ex wont give me my kids back unsupervised until i get a clean urine. The clinic promised to give me one by monday so a few more days. I know its clean bc i haven't used but it hasn't been easy. I just wish i didnt have to struggle every night. It sucks. Its so unbelievably hard but i love my kids and have to do this for them. I miss them so much. I was a an extremely high functioning addict. No one knew i relapsed. I never missed a beat when it came to work and caring for my kids. My ex and parents were really surprised to find out about my relapse. Hopefully i will stabilise and not suffer at night forever!

 

[Gozlinchick]

I'm not nodding off, just really tired. Maybe cause I been up since 5 am? I'm gonna hold off from doing a pill. I'm in this for me, a and my kids. I think it's just a mental need/want. Urgh I just wish I never was in this situation to begin with. Thanks so much for your response diamond. Its helpful to hear your words of encouragement.

 

[JM357]

Okay, I couldn't read this whole thread but had a couple thoughts:

Do you think methadone WDs in SOME cases could have something to do with benzos? I ask because I've heard stats that 60% of people on MMT are RXed benzos as well. The first time I came off I was on 90mgs a day BUT was also on around 2mgs a day of clonazepam (RX). I went to detox to get off the methadone (wouldn't do that now, would have tapered a lot) and they took me off the clonazepam as well (even though I didn't want that- they did the same thing to a patient coming off 210mgs of methadone and 6mgs of alprazolam a day and he ended up in the local hospitals ICU for 3 days). While I did know benzos caused physical dependence at the time I hadn't been through it and didn't think of them as being on the same level as opioids at the time. Now I think a lot of the nightmare may have been from benzo WD. I got home after a week and promptly took 5mgs of clonazepam (had extra due to being in detox) and actually didn't feel TOO bad anymore and got some sleep. I know here at BL people know how bad physical dependency to benzos is (the way I think of it benzos are less compulsive (with myself I have never gotten a habit unless prescribed them) and it takes longer but is worse if it happens) but I wonder if in the past this could have happened to others....

Also, do you think that when we are trying to score opioids off the street and are often sick for a half a day or day frequently that causes a slowing in the building of tolerance and less severe withdrawals? Since methadone has a 24hour half life I feel like being on maintanence is like getting a good shot of dope every 3-4 hours and never or very rarely failing to do that.

I did later come off 40mgs of methadone and really didn't think it was that bad- it lasted longer but was not as severe as dope.

I currently am taking subs but experiencing severe pain and anxiety. It is getting to the point where I am going nuts and will either end up ordering some benzos and hoping I can spread them out and not use daily (might give them to a family member I can trust to hold) or using dope. It is too the point where I feel so crappy I don't care and I don't feel like a doctor will ever help me (I see my PCP on tuesday and I do think he will refer me to a orthapedic specialist but I doubt they will do much- last one didn't even want to discuss non-narcotic options for pain). I really wish I could go back on the methadone clinic and work up to maybe a 60mg/day dose but due to having to drive there everyday it is probably not possible. I really was pretty happy, had less cravings, and it helped with pain at least part of the time so I got breaks. And I didn't have this crushing anxiety. I didn't feel "dead" either- I felt great, was exercising and eating well etc.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So I had my first dose of methadone (20 mg) today, came home and fell asleep. The pharmacist said I'll be a at a 20 mg dose for 7 days, then I can ask for a n increase. I already feel like I wanna do a pill to give me some energy. Would it kill me to do one?

the pharmacist? do you go to a methadone clinic? how did you get on methadone and what were you doing before (how much were u doing before)? just wondering since the 20MG put you to sleep; or maybe you were just tired.

 

[Gozlinchick]

Yes, I just started clinic yesterday, dosing today. They said I stay at 20mg for 7 days then can increase 5mg/day to 80mg, if needed. I was doing Roxy 30's at least 4-6 x day. At $30/pill.... Of course if I came across any percs or hydro's, it was just an added bonus. I've been doing Roxy's for at least 5 years now. They would start wearing off and within 4 hours and I'd start feeling like shit. They would always give me the energy to start and continue my day. Snorting them is my preferred method. Never iv'ed anything.

 

[Sunniiday1980]

I am Telling I have been on Methadone for 10 years and In the beginning I thought It was A Miricle. I never thought I would be on this shit this long, back then paying 120 a week was a bargian compared to 100 a day or more,but that was before a got married and had kids I was making alot of money. BUT now it's has Became a LIVING NIGHTMARE, because I lost my 4 kids and I am still trying to get them back, but because I lost them they took my medicaid which was and has been paying for my methadone for the last 9 years. Now since I have been a stay at home mom for all this time and off of all street opiates, I have to come up with 16 dollars day to dose, and my husband is only getting like 15 hours a week just enough for the rent, so as you can see this poses a really big problem, I can't just go off the meth a 50 mg with is what I have tapered myself down to, cuz I am trying so hard to get off of this horriable drug that, so I have been looking for a job and never in my life have i had such a problem finding one, I live in Orlando Florida, I am having to panhandle with really sucks I feel like a damn peasent and I am having to do other things that I really do not want to do, if you no want I mean? I am really at rock fucking bottom and I just wish and hope that I will be able to getting off this damn shit, and move on with my life, When they put you on methadone I believe there should a time limit ( aleast for me) like 6 months to a year and then they should taper slowly in a humane way. They should have never of taken my medicaid knowing that I am trying to get my kids back, i HAD A GOOD JOB which I lost because in Aug. 2015 I had to go cold turkey when tey dropped the mediciad now I only have untill march 30th to get them or they go up for adoption!!! I dont know what I am going to do, everyday is a nightmare. If anyone ever thinks about getting this shit, eigher don't it at all or please do not stay on it longer than 6 months. Because life changes and you might not be able to pay for it one day and then your in a world of shit!!!

 

[Sunniiday1980]

p.s In August when I went cold turkey I was trying to make and just get off , but after 3 weeks I could'nt take it anymore I went though pure agony so I ended up getting back on the the clinic, which now looking back was probably a very bad decition. So, now I am tapering again like I said I am on 50 mg and next week will be going down to 40 mg. I am also on xanax which is helping me but at the same time it's just something else I am haveing to taper off of, which is really hard coming off methadone because that is one of the worst things about the withdraw is all of the damn Anxity that I get. like I said this is a NIGHTMARE.

 

[Johnwayne94]

Oxy methadone Xanax in VA, Armed Forces.& everywhere

I take from no less then 120mg to no more then 400mg of OxyContin Roxy mix everyday for the past 10 years ever since getting back from Afghanistan but when I run low I take Diesel or Metadone which I mix with Stix usually around 50mg Meth and 4mg Stix. My ? Is it normal to feel more from the Stix & meth then I've felt in long time from all previous combos taken & since this combo of course has since been not delivering the same result. I'm not ashamed of my drug use with the exception of the D as I was prescribed all this by my on base primary care and they genuinely appeared to be looking to get me to serve out the remainder of my term so I can retire with my head up high after 20 of service. On the other hand the VA ( Veterans Admin) did everything they could to deny me any and every benefit I was entitled to after serving one shy of a dozen deployments. Now they have me in an ultimatum where I either get some what pain appropriate meds but no anti-anxiety drugs or the other way around either way they have given me, a bronze star winner with 5 young children an impossible descison although my battle buddy has said 50 mg of methadone -100mg daily with 2-4 Xanax sticks have worked well and has suffered worse then I so if you please let me know what you think and for allof you out there please stop thanking me for my service BC it's not that it's not appreciated it's that it'd be much better directed at politicians like Nj gov pres can who like all others speaks from both sides of his mouth saying he loves our country while not standing up for its principles & others fiornia J Bush CARSON CRUZ & worst of all Rubio so if you are voting please vote for KASICH (gov Ohio) or Clinton BC trump would lead us to and over a cliff but getting back on track what are your suggestions for my situation Hoo Ya

 

[szuko000]

I just wish there wasnt so many negative views on methadone. I think a lot of the problem is people read things like "it doesnt work and it sucks" and they believe that enough to make it so. I never had any issues coming off suboxone, granted i was only on it for 8 months at 8mg as my highest, but i tapered down to 0.5mg a day then every other day then done. I might have felt off for 10 days after my last dose but i went to work every day.

Now that i relapsed and finally got my fiance on methadone she did way better the i did. We were both on 90mg and she started lowering by 10mg a time until she got to 20, then she started lowering by 5mg and is now at 3mg. The clinic thinks shes lying or something is not true because she must be the only person to not go for an official taper and just lower the dose as she wants at her own (ridiculously high) pace. It disrupts her sleeping but its not bad and we are talking about a girl who struggled with suicidal tendencies and self worth issues. This experience changed that because somehow after 3 years of a daily at least a bundle IV habit she was on 90mg for 2 months before lowering her dose she went from 30mg intake down to 3 in a total of 11 months and only started the rapid decrease in june i think. I would never have thought she would become a better person through methadone but it showed her there is something special about her if the clinic is trying to drop her for not being on the program long enough or on a high enough dose. Her counselor acted like she wast going to be off in december but now she is.

I am doing the same exact thing just a wee bit slower as i have a full time job. But my recent drops was 30mg to 25 and that was 7 days ago... didnt feel a thing much like the drop from 40 to 30mg. I would never say anyone else should do it the way we did but I am surprised the only thing she reported the whole way was not sleeping more then 3 hours a night and not being hungry then after 7-9 days that changes a bit and she gets like 5-6 hours of sleep and can eat again. Now that i am starting to get lower in the dose range my body does wake me up at 730am, which i can see being 6 and 5am as i continue to lower my dose.

It must confuse the shit out of them because they keep trying to get her on a higher dose or out of the clinic but both of us stopped using drugs in febuary and never had a failed drug test since. It is just a shame they make her feel like shit for it in a sense because they cant understand it and her counselor is the worst so she doesnt even try to understand it. I tell her its important we both stay around because the two of us doing it this way without any help from them as far as dosage or taper must mean something. If they want to kick her out for doing so well rather then failing drug tests then it means they dont want to recognize that people can in a sense "Do it on their own" maybe not fully but we took the reins of treatment and excelled, if they told us we couldnt do this and had to stay on high doses we would still be on high doses rather then the low ones with plans to go on vacation next summer

If you keep a positive attitude and think "i can do this i am awesome" then maybe you can. if you go "everyone in line says they feel each mg drop, its going to be hell!" then it probably is. That is all i can say as to why we were both able to do it this way. There needs to be some really positive stuff here as most people have a completely different view from us

*update* And I guess we find out Monday what is actually going to happen with her dosing. They put her on hold for monday until she speaks with the director. The problem is the lowest possible dose at the clinic is 3mg and she randomly went to that point on her own because her counselor didnt think she would go through with it so she kept writing notes to lower her dose every 2 weeks and her counselor kept putting them through and now suddenly because shes at an unheard of dose its a problem. It probably wouldnt have been if her counselor put her on a taper or something but she only sees her when she is forced to for "treatment plans" which is not how its done at all. My guess is people stay on it for as long as they can (usually 2 years) and then start tapering if they ever do at the 2 year mark. As I plan to be fully off by February I plan on asking my counselor, who actually said i changed her view of methadone because i got to this point on my own and predicted all this shit last year, how "normal people" go through the clinic and what the end point is like for them. I have 30mg to drop in 3 months, easy as pie

 

[crzydiamond]

I did what you did before, dropped on my own. But my Clinic lets you go down to 1 mg

I'm currently doing it now- was at 95 mg. currently at 60. I generally tell my counselor here and there that I want to come down 5 mg. I don't ever feel it. They look at me strangely too, like I should notice the drops.

When I previously got to 20 I had to come down 1 mg at a time. But it wasn't difficult doing it that way.

I'm probably going to drop another 5 this week. I would like to be off by summer. But no rush.

(Just for the record I have been on methadone two previous times. One I quit about 50 mg cold turkey --county jail there didn't dose you, and the other time I detoxed slowly 5 mg at a time then 3 then 1 once below 20. And I had no problems getting off the clinic. I was just dumb and relapsed after close to 9 yrs clean so I went back in the clinic)

 

[szuko000]

^ Glad to hear it!! If it were just me I could see thinking that I was different but my girl and I are completely different people, down to the music we listen to. Unrelated but when we met she dressed more "gothic" (all black with leather boots and gloves whole 9 years) and myself more of a neo-hippy bright color wearing tye dye having grateful dead fan but i digress. If the two of us can manage this then I feel a lot of us can do the same.

Its like there are so many stories of people not getting off it has the term "liquid handcuffs" and my whole thing is life is how you make it and the fact people say these things makes it harder for others who many not have had a hard time and were just open to suggestion. If we can interject some good stories being like "i have no idea what any of those people are talking about, methadone is easy as hell" because seriously if it was just her and I as my only experiences i would actually think that. Even i was told by countless people it was a bad idea or something and if i could show the difference in my life i would. Sure nothings really changed as we live the same life we always did (though finally after a year we are meeting new people and getting a new life) but it took about a year for stuff to change.

My point is we can make this easier for people if we tell success stories too. And holy crap they let you go that low? I think the standard dilution is 5mg/1mL so her dose is tiny and it annoys the nurses because i would imagine so few are on a dose that can barely be seen they cant understand why shes on that dose. I should have asked what the normal exit dose is, I know with suboxone they told me they have people exit on 2mg. Thats why I feel my place probably makes you leave at 5mg or something, they dont see the benefits in microdosing. I was literally told when i abruptly left the suboxone program for being told i couldnt be on the lower dose i was on and would have to go back from 4mg to 8mg if i wanted to stay on the program, that 2mg is the jump point so if i can get there on my own whatever thats where they would have me leave. I thought that was crazy.

 

[Erikmen]

I did what you did before, dropped on my own. But my Clinic lets you go down to 1 mg

I'm currently doing it now- was at 95 mg. currently at 60. I generally tell my counselor here and there that I want to come down 5 mg. I don't ever feel it. They look at me strangely too, like I should notice the drops.

When I previously got to 20 I had to come down 1 mg at a time. But it wasn't difficult doing it that way.

I'm probably going to drop another 5 this week. I would like to be off by summer. But no rush.

(Just for the record I have been on methadone two previous times. One I quit about 50 mg cold turkey --county jail there didn't dose you, and the other time I detoxed slowly 5 mg at a time then 3 then 1 once below 20. And I had no problems getting off the clinic. I was just dumb and relapsed after close to 9 yrs clean so I went back in the clinic)

This once you quit from 50 mg to plain cold turkey seems to harsh man. I've quit slowly and went through hell for a couple of months. I can't only imagine what you've gone through.

 

[crzydiamond]

^oh believe me I didn't do the cold turkey by choice. The county I was in back in 2002 did not dose you if you got locked up on methadone. They were just like oh well you'll get over it. It took like 2 weeks to be sort of half human but very very weak. I could not lift my arms up to do my hair. It took like 32 days to feel normal.

On the other hand coming down with 3-5 mg drops never bothered me. If you titrate down slowly your body adjusts easily. Most people have a hard time cause they expect to feel wd, which is why a lot of ppl do blind doses when tapering. When they don't know what day the dose lowers they are fine. But if you tell them "hey we dropped you 5 mg today" they suddenly feel slightly sick. The brain is an amazing thing...psychosomatic wd and all.

I always found it to be no issue getting down to like 20 mg, then had to go slowly. I had to re-stabilize at 4 mg for a few weeks before dropping. I'm not sure but I thought the liquid we had was 1mg/mL. Maybe that's not right, not sure, but it's computer dosed. They type into computer which is attached to dosing mechanism and the liquid goes down the tube into your cup / bottle. Now, if the computer goes down they use a hand calibration pump, I've seen it and that does to the mg as well

 

[Bomb319]

methadone is one evil opioid i was on it for years over a decade and ended up getting my dose put up to silly levels 120mg a day after i stopped buying heroin due to its very low purity at the time. i used to collect 840ml a week and drink the lot in one go occasionally saving 40mg or so for day 6 withdrawals. i dont know about other people but with me i used to find i could dose my self weekly with it at very high doses and still not withdraw untill a day before next collection. as a drug it is much more abusable than buprenorphine although its uk preperations are not 1mg/1ml mixture is impossible to inject it like you can with subutex tablets. only exception is the blue 10mg/ml sugar free concentrate wich is like water tinted blue (unlike the green gloopy 1ml/1mg mixture) both have their advantages and disadvantages but methadone is much more likely to get you hooked on opiods for life. Back then 1998 between the 2 if i had the choice id of gone with subutex. methadone has destroyed my life am lucky it didnt kill me really. ! Go for the bupe people sod that nazi dereived bone soaking crap. hope i not broke no rules sayin that !!!

I find it entirely unfair - and frankly ridiculous - that you are basically telling everybody not to use a drug that has the potential to turn the lives around of many, many people, because you had a bad experience after abusing it to epic proportions. If you treat methadone as a tool for withdrawal as you are supposed to do, it can be extremely helpful and save lives. A proper reduction program will allow you to taper slowly enough such that withdrawal is eliminated or highly mitigated.