Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ v 2.0

[Fire&Water]

Unpasteurized juice ferments in the refer' (alot of O.J. is unpasteurized these days) but just about any can contain small amounts of alcohol (faster @ room temp)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I know drug testing questions aren't allowed, so if this question is too close to that, let me know and I'll delete this post. I'm really just looking for someone to point me to a better resource for this. A buddy I met at the clinic is running into some problems. He is consistently coming up dirty for alcohol on his drug screens. He has hepatitis and he's on dialysis. As a result, he can't pee for the required supervised urine screens. He has a doctor's note for this, and the clinic tests him with mouth swabs instead. He doesn't use any mouthwash with alcohol in it. What could be causing him to come up dirty for alcohol every time he takes a drug test? Our clinic uses a three strikes model - verbal warning, then written, then a team intervention and after that, you're done. He is now on the team intervention which will take place in two weeks. He's on an administrative taper, 5 mg a week, and unless he can prove that he's not drinking/using, he'll be tapered down to 0 and then kicked out of the clinic. Any thoughts about what could be causing this, or where I could find out? No one at the clinic believes him, but he's been clean since the end of October.

always so crazy when I read about this; I've been on the clinic twice; both times it was simple as can be. I did pay my own insurance, tho.. but I would be able to fail back to back to back drug test and it was never an issue. I probably NEVER passed one test but it would only be brought up by my counselor and that was it. I'd still go up (maxed out at 95) and would still drop down at the same speed as planned. nothing every happened for pissing dirty; whether it was weed, dope, coke, whatever.. nothing mattered.

is that normal for a clinic?

 

[fullycaffeinated]

Where I live, my clinic is the only one for two hours in any direction, so I don't know if it's normal, but from what I've read here and on other websites, not really. My clinic is really strict with everything, but alcohol and benzos are the two thing that will get you put on administrative taper, stat.

 

[Nib]

always so crazy when I read about this; I've been on the clinic twice; both times it was simple as can be. I did pay my own insurance, tho.. but I would be able to fail back to back to back drug test and it was never an issue. I probably NEVER passed one test but it would only be brought up by my counselor and that was it. I'd still go up (maxed out at 95) and would still drop down at the same speed as planned. nothing every happened for pissing dirty; whether it was weed, dope, coke, whatever.. nothing mattered.

is that normal for a clinic?

Yea my clinic in nyc would actually raise your dose if you were pissing dirty with coke benzo's w/e. They just take away any earned take homes. I'd just bring clean piss and warm it up in the bathroom hot water because that's how much they cared that we could do that. I've gotten so far to getting like 3 take homes then just lost it all cause my clean piss tested dirty one time.

Fuck the whole Methadone program. Not fuck Methadone because it did help me, but your life is revolved around going to clinic. I ended up taking 8mg Sub 3 days off 220mg Methadone because i went to a fucked up scam rehab who was suppose to taper me but didn't, was on that dose for about 2 years. I even told their douchebag Dr. this ain't a good idea. Talk about fucking hell once the Sub latched on.

I don't think I would of survived mentally that night if I didn't sneak into the room with everyones drugs and just gobble benzos and barbs. I tried to sue the fucking Dr. but no lawyers wanna take that case.

That shit was traumatizing going through it, but honestly it was probably the best way to do it because I was pretty good after that night. Just make sure you eat enough of a benzo and barb mixture before you even take the Sub.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^^

I am w/ you. fucking the program is right! show up every morning to get my dose? GET LOST! ill take my subs right at home, nice and easy. I am TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM LIVING THAT LIFE; having to show up to meet so-so at certain times, addicted to the drug, etc. the clinic is just a legal dope dealer; still have to be at a certain spot, at a certain time, etc. FUCK THAT !

suboxone helps me 10x's more than methadone ever has.

 

[MMT]

Wd from long term methadone use sucks that shit gets into your bones and the half life is forever long.

Tru dat. I've been on MMT for 15 years and made it down to 10mg.(starting 2 years ago from 100mg.).I had no problems with withdrawal and I went rather fast down to 70 or so and then slowed it down from there,going slower as I lowered my dose.At 20 I hit a mental wall but soldiered on only to become depressed,amotivated,severely panicky and agoraphobic.In short,I literally felt like an Alien whenever I left home,all spacey and shit.As usual,every doctor I saw didn't GAF about me as a patient and only saw me as an addict.If I had a good connect I would have tried the jump from 10 to dope a year ago but being out of the game for so long that was not an option so I went back up to 20(and those clinic assholes loved it).With all due respect to my friend bbt,getting off long term methadone is not as easy as he makes it sound cause both times he walked off the done were from relatively short runs on the stuff(6mo. or less this time I believe).Not for nothing but when I was his age(actually a bit younger) I jumped off a 75mg/2year habit myself and it was nothing compared to what I'm going thru now.Of course I had the dope connections and the good,writing croaker docs who were more plentiful and easier to find(I once had a doc who would write for z.old-school Tussionex once a month for $20!!!). I guess my point is twofold, 1) the longer you're on it the harder it becomes to get off and 2) the longer you've been a junkie(I started in the late '70's),the harder each kick actually is because your body has become used to having some type of opiate in it for most of your adult life(it actually changes your brain/body chemistry).And now,in this Golden Age of technology, once you have 'drug addict' status in BOLD PRINT on your medical record it will stay with you for life.That might not affect most of you young bucks now but someday when you're in your 50's or older and you really do need pain meds or any other CS,good fuckin luck.If nothing else,my advice to anyone getting on a methadone clinic today is to keep your clinic status TOTALLY separate/secret from any and all other docs(including emergency rooms) regardless of clinic 'rules' and signing releases because AFAIK drug treatment is still protected under HIPPA otherwise they wouldn't be needing you to sign those release forms.

I know drug testing questions aren't allowed, so if this question is too close to that, let me know and I'll delete this post. I'm really just looking for someone to point me to a better resource for this. A buddy I met at the clinic is running into some problems. He is consistently coming up dirty for alcohol on his drug screens. He has hepatitis and he's on dialysis. As a result, he can't pee for the required supervised urine screens. He has a doctor's note for this, and the clinic tests him with mouth swabs instead. He doesn't use any mouthwash with alcohol in it. What could be causing him to come up dirty for alcohol every time he takes a drug test? Our clinic uses a three strikes model - verbal warning, then written, then a team intervention and after that, you're done. He is now on the team intervention which will take place in two weeks. He's on an administrative taper, 5 mg a week, and unless he can prove that he's not drinking/using, he'll be tapered down to 0 and then kicked out of the clinic. Any thoughts about what could be causing this, or where I could find out? No one at the clinic believes him, but he's been clean since the end of October.

Sorry but something doesn't sound right. Personally,I have never tested positive for booze with the swabs even with daily mouthwash,w/alcohol,30 minutes before the swab test.The one time they thought they smelled alcohol with me I was given a Breathalyzer test before they would dose me and I passed (after drinking a shitload of rum the night before).One thing I do recommend is to ask for a print-out of all your drug screens every year or so.Not only does it show what you were tested for(never saw Fentanyl on the list) but it's a good back-up if you're on take homes,like I was,in case they try to fuck you with a positive you can wave that sheet around at the take home committee when trying to get them take homes back(as opposed to starting over).Good luck to your friend.

always so crazy when I read about this; I've been on the clinic twice; both times it was simple as can be. I did pay my own insurance, tho.. but I would be able to fail back to back to back drug test and it was never an issue. I probably NEVER passed one test but it would only be brought up by my counselor and that was it. I'd still go up (maxed out at 95) and would still drop down at the same speed as planned. nothing every happened for pissing dirty; whether it was weed, dope, coke, whatever.. nothing mattered.

is that normal for a clinic?

That's my biggest beef with methadone clinics bbt. There's no constinstency from state to state OR clinic to clinic. The Feds create the MINIMUM standards (pot is not even on their list of drugs to be tested for) and allow the states and/or clinics to make up their own rules,as long as they're stricter than the Feds minimum standards. I was on a clinic in Missouri once,the buckle of the Bible Belt,that never tested for pot yet in the more "enlightened" state of Mass. it's enough to lose your take homes,no questions asked even with a medical card. I could go on but you get the point.The bottom line is that methadone clinics should be run the same no matter where you live.As it is now,one clinic can CHOOSE to toss you for a certain number of dirtys while the clinic down the street can let you get away with anything as long as you're not behind with your payments.It's fucked up in the worst way as it adds un-needed stress on the cat whose trying his/her best in a world where the "rules" can be changed or applied on the whim of a doctor,nurse,office manager or a "security" person who doesn't like the way you look at them.

 

[fullycaffeinated]

Sorry but something doesn't sound right. Personally,I have never tested positive for booze with the swabs even with daily mouthwash,w/alcohol,30 minutes before the swab test.The one time they thought they smelled alcohol with me I was given a Breathalyzer test before they would dose me and I passed (after drinking a shitload of rum the night before).One thing I do recommend is to ask for a print-out of all your drug screens every year or so.Not only does it show what you were tested for(never saw Fentanyl on the list) but it's a good back-up if you're on take homes,like I was,in case they try to fuck you with a positive you can wave that sheet around at the take home committee when trying to get them take homes back(as opposed to starting over).Good luck to your friend.

Yeah, I feel you. I wouldn't even believe him, but I've been hanging out with him a fair amount, and if he IS drinking, I have no idea when the hell he could be doing it, ya know?!? I kinda think the clinic might be trying to pull one over on him, because he's kind of a pain in the ass, and maybe they figure they can get away with it, because he doesn't know a whole lot about the legal aspect of things. Unfortunately for them, he befriended me, and I do. So if that's the case, they may end up regretting it.

That's my biggest beef with methadone clinics bbt. There's no constinstency from state to state OR clinic to clinic. The Feds create the MINIMUM standards (pot is not even on their list of drugs to be tested for) and allow the states and/or clinics to make up their own rules,as long as they're stricter than the Feds minimum standards. I was on a clinic in Missouri once,the buckle of the Bible Belt,that never tested for pot yet in the more "enlightened" state of Mass. it's enough to lose your take homes,no questions asked even with a medical card. I could go on but you get the point.The bottom line is that methadone clinics should be run the same no matter where you live.As it is now,one clinic can CHOOSE to toss you for a certain number of dirtys while the clinic down the street can let you get away with anything as long as you're not behind with your payments.It's fucked up in the worst way as it adds un-needed stress on the cat whose trying his/her best in a world where the "rules" can be changed or applied on the whim of a doctor,nurse,office manager or a "security" person who doesn't like the way you look at them.

Tell me about it. My clinic has EXTREMELY strict rules, and they can, because there are no other clinics around. As a matter of fact, they themselves just added the methadone program to their facility last year, before that, there were NO clinics anywhere around. I met someone on Friday who drives a three hour round trip to my clinic just to get BUPE, because it's the closest prescribing doctor to her. Not surprising, since I used to drive a four hour round trip for bupe myself, since the doctors here were all wait listed months out. It sucks so much to live in an area where I can't just go to the next closest clinic because I don't like the rules at the one I'm at. I can't piss dirty for anything without risking an administrative taper, or a reduction in take-homes (once I have them). Some of the staff also treats patients like shit, and we're expected to just deal with it. But if we "verbally abuse" a staff member, we can expect to lose take-homes or even be put on taper. Such bullshit!

I wish I never ended up in this position. But the fact is, I feel by far the best I have felt in the last five or more years since starting methadone. The last few mornings, I've even woken up not sick. I can't remember the last time that happened!! I'm finally starting to live a (somewhat) normal life again. It would be completely normal, except I have to deal with the clinic, and trust me, they do their part to make my life hell. But I'm trying my damnedest to just get through the next few months and get some take-homes, so that my life will be almost totally normal. I've tried everything else, and none of it came remotely close to accomplishing what methadone has for me. I could tell on the very first day, when I felt normal. I finally remembered what I used to feel like before pills or dope. It only lasted a few hours that first day, but it was enough to give me faith. I've been on for almost a month now, and I'm up to 55 mg. At this dose, I feel pretty good almost all the time. I can't remember the last time I could say that. If only I didn't have to deal with the clinic to have my life back.

 

[KetoBDone]

Yeah that's definitely the main thing I hate about the clinics too. I have been on methadone for about 4 years now and I really can't rightfully complain since I do have take homes but I have seen a lot of people get fucked over by them. Not going to lie a lot of people get themselves fucked over but a lot of people don't deserve it at all. That's probably pretty unavoidable considering the nature of the business. They are definitely strict in my area though. The first clinic I was at after a couple years I was able to get bi-weekly take homes but had to pass all urine tests (they tested for everything and if you failed enough you would get kicked out even for weed and if you couldn't pay they booted you cold turkey) for the first 90 days has to do either 1 hour of group or counseling every week, then every other week for the next 90 then once a month after but there were a lot of little things like if you got called in for a bottle check and you had taken as many as you supposed to but had accidentally taken a bottle with the wrong date on it they would fail you and you lost all your take homes.
Recently I has to transfer for work so I lost a week of take homes due to this clinic only allowing weekly but I really don't mind. I know people who have to daily attend so I can't complain at all. I do wish bupe had worked better for me (was on it about 2 years before done) but unfortunately it just didn't do it for me. I stayed on it a while because it was much more convenient although for me (no insurance) much more expensive. Dr visit was 100 cash every month and script cost about 760 bucks a month as well as 200 every few months for blood and labs lol. Unfortunately though the convenience just didn't make up for it not being as good of a maintenence drug for me (some people done great and bupe sucks others bupe great and done sucks). I also knew what I was in for when I signed up had used it before but never scripted. Lot of people complain that they can't get high on it and while everyone different I really didn't associate that only with done and bupe. Hell I never got high off of dope anymore either so in the land where opiates are only felt when they are absent from the receptors half life reigns supreme!!!

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

I went to a clinic in Maui for a year and if u had a job you got 6 take homes a week. And without a job u get a take home every month so after a year I had 6 take homes all the time at 70mg. If you piss dirty u just pay 25 dollars

Igot arrested and cold turkeys in jail for two months

 

[Jabberwocky]

I went to a clinic in Maui for a year and if u had a job you got 6 take homes a week. And without a job u get a take home every month so after a year I had 6 take homes all the time at 70mg. If you piss dirty u just pay 25 dollars

Igot arrested and cold turkeys in jail for two months

I wish they had something this easy around these parts; that actually sounds pretty good. having a job and having to hit the clinic is NOT EASY! gets to be a real pain in the ass; this is another reason why I prefer bupe over done.

 

[joeburden]

I started on subs in 2011 but a methadone clinic opened in my city (west of boston) in 2014 so I switched, and what a huge mistake- marijuana was counted as a dirty screen, and I was basically put in the same category as people with benzo scripts (no take homes, ever) infact a few times we had to find rides to the clinic which closes its doors at 9am during huge blizzards, it was a nightmare, I heard so many horror stories of switching from methadone back to sub, but I asked to be dropped from 60 to 30mg in a months time, and I felt sick for most of that month- took my last methadone dose april 24th, used for a few days but the anxiety about the switch got the best of me and I ended up IVing suboxone just to get the methadone off my receptors around the 80th hour mark, HUGE MISTAKE- I thought my sickness was at a 10 before I pushed the plunger but it was most like a 1 compared to how I felt after, wanted to jump right out of my skin- my gf thought I was convulsing and got really scared. I grabbed 60mg of vicodin and some kratom legit 20 minutes after the mistake and it started to help maybe 2 hours after the whole ordeal, I actually wound up using for a few days after that out of sheer terror of sub, and wanting one more rush (it never came, waste of money) and didnt take my first sub again until may 2nd

MY QUESTION IS: how long can I use sub to mask methadone withdrawal without becoming dependant on the sub again? its been 6 days of sub, and I woke up today feeling pretty good so im gonna try to take tiny pieces of sub only as needed for the next few days and hopefully be totally done with it- does this sound feasible to anyone?

thanks!

 

[fullycaffeinated]

MY QUESTION IS: how long can I use sub to mask methadone withdrawal without becoming dependant on the sub again? its been 6 days of sub, and I woke up today feeling pretty good so im gonna try to take tiny pieces of sub only as needed for the next few days and hopefully be totally done with it- does this sound feasible to anyone?

thanks!

Well, first off, it doesn't really work like that. You're dependent on an opiate - it doesn't matter which one - your receptors don't distinguish and say "oh hey, this isn't methadone, it's bupe, I don't have a bupe habit!!"

That being said, you'll probably experience some degree of withdrawal no matter what, but in my experience (and that of many others), you could probably get away with doing a two-week bupe taper with minimal withdrawals. Obviously, the less time you spend on bupe, the better, but something around two weeks should allow you to be fairly comfortable throughout the taper without a harsh jump at the end. Make sure to take decreasing doses each day. Your mileage may vary, but I think you'll be fine. If you're already feeling ok on small doses of bupe, I think that's a good sign.

 

[Bomb319]

The nod isn't very present IME. It's more of a stimulating high, a bit like phenibut or GBL mixed with a good dose of amphetamine.

This. I know I have a tendency to piss everyone off shortly after I dose because I simply can't stop talking.

 

[TheJosh]

New user, Methadone clinic question?

What's up guys I'm new to blue light my name is josh I'm from Pennsylvania I'm 20 years old addicted to heroin. I've been using for almost 2 years via the needle. Started out w/ vics percs morphine etc.. Anyway I went to a methadone clinic Thursday and talked to a counselor who ended up reviewing my insurance, make me sign a paper, and took my piss. They made copies of my I.d and insurance card & told me they will call when the drug results are in. It's been 3 days since.. Is this the usual wait time? Idk what to do at this point bc my withdraws are becoming worse and worse, help please???

Josh

 

[pasha]

welcome to bluelight josh. i'm going to move your thread.

homeless -> other drugs (methadone megathread)

 

[fullycaffeinated]

Can anyone help me?? I cannot pee in front of someone for the life of me. I am required to do supervised piss tests unless I get a dr note excusing me. So far I've been to four doctors and not one would write a note. I also have no insurance at the moment (waiting for documents to be verified, my Medicaid got cancelled in the meantime). Any suggestions on how I can pee in front of someone, or what to say to get a dr to write this note? The truth hasn't been working too well.

What's up guys I'm new to blue light my name is josh I'm from Pennsylvania I'm 20 years old addicted to heroin. I've been using for almost 2 years via the needle. Started out w/ vics percs morphine etc.. Anyway I went to a methadone clinic Thursday and talked to a counselor who ended up reviewing my insurance, make me sign a paper, and took my piss. They made copies of my I.d and insurance card & told me they will call when the drug results are in. It's been 3 days since.. Is this the usual wait time? Idk what to do at this point bc my withdraws are becoming worse and worse, help please???

Josh

It doesn't surprise me at all. Clinics seem tolike to take their sweet ass time, and I know mine sends out drug tests, so if yours does, that may explain the long wait. Most clinics also only do intakes one day a week, so that may be why they haven't called. Be patient, but it also doesn't hurt to call and ask if you haven't heard anything in a couple more days. Is there any reason you're not currently using? Clinics do generally require a positive piss test for opiates before they will start dosing, and also, usually people continue to use in the first couple weeks until they are on a stable dose.

 

[artie]

transitioning from subutex to methadone. Guidelines??

transitioning from subutex to methadone. Guidelines??

 

[pasha]

homeless -> other drugs (methadone megathread)

 

[Jabberwocky]

Can anyone help me?? I cannot pee in front of someone for the life of me.

I am the same way; I got in trouble for this many years back because I just couldnt piss and they took it as a dirty urine. I finally got a Dr. notice and they changed my drug test to saliva or blood, depending where I went and got tested that day.

even w/ my current bupe Dr. I told him I couldnt do piss tests and those ere behind closed doors but on demand. I Just cant piss on demand or w/ people looking over my shoulder; never could, still cant. always been a problem when it came to probation and everything else that has to do w/ being an addict.

but def. ask them to CHANGE the way of testing. is this for probation? cuz it ill be a hassle then but still doable.

 

[speedballs_over]

Concerning the person who lost take outs due to a set of false alcohol positives - various foods and metabolic disorders can manufacture ethanol in the body in small qtys, but more significantly EtOH metabolites. Have a blood test done by your PCP, and tell them the situation, they'll knew what to look for in the tests. Or see an endocrinologist as that's the like source of internal manufacture of EtOH metabolites (endocrine dysfunction). As for outside sources - anything fermentable - fruit, juice, bread or non-alcoholic high carb foods, etc... have been implicated in false EtOH detection.

You really should try to get to the root cause, it may be inductive of several disorders, diabetes being one major disease I know can cause alcohol (like) metabolites that could trigger a simple swab test. Have you asked for GC/MS or HPLC confirmation? It's you're right in some states, maybe even in the US federal regs. Look into it all for your health...

No info on how to evade, avoid or the actual mechanics of EtOH testing, so I hope mods ok with this, I'm concerned the poster with this issue has underlying disease or metabolic issues that is undiagnosed. Thank you.

Edit: I very much believe the poster who has this issue. I've seen others with this problem get it sorted out by diet or by finding an underlying cause of ethanol or ethanol metabolites at clinics I've attended. In some cases the underlying cause was identified and/or the qty of ethanol detected was so low the tests were considered false positives and they got it sorted out. I've also seen people lie. I believe the poster in this case.