Opioids methadone dosage (help again!)

[Pars101]

Okay people told me to do 10mg and it would be good, so I did, I got a slight buzz with no nod. Then I did 20mg got euphoria and a slight nod.

Last night I smoked loads of opium, and today I woke up and did 10mg of methadone again.

Im thinking about doing 30mg of methadone, I want to experience nodding out properly. 10mg diff did not do it, neither did 20...


Would 30mg do the job? or should I just do 25mg to be on the safe side?

 

[bronson]

With the information given it's very hard to impossible to offer what would be a safe dose. Add some more info like wight, build, previous length and amount of use. Then people will be able to give you a better idea.

For this now though, I will give the generic reply, that you can always take more, but never less. So yes!, please be on the safe side.

 

[tokenname]

Move up slow..
try 25mg. first.

fyi: methadone w/d is a bitch like no other which lasts months.....many of them.

be careful!
~token

 

[Sepher]

Be aware Pars that methadone produces little in the way of opiate euphoria and the nod you get from it is completely lacking in that blissful, waking dream-like feeling you'd get from other opiates like Heroin. It's pure sedation Pars, so don't expect too much from it, and be careful chasing a feeling Methadone is not going to be able to give you no matter how much you take.

30mg might be ok for you, but it can be enough to kill an opiate naive individual. Be especially careful redosing, or taking it on consecutive days. The long half-life means if you took 30mg now and felt ok on it, you'd still have around 15mg left in your system this time tomorrow, so dosing another 30mg again would mean you'd be pushing 45mg in your system. That could easily push you over into overdose territory. Be very careful with it.

 

[DrugFuckedNZ]

Yeah Its nasty stuff unless you have an opiate habit. I can do an 80mg Oxycontin shot with no habit or tolerance, but 8mg Methadone rocked me with no real rush, just high instantly.

 

[Fire&Water]

Okay people told me to do 10mg and it would be good, so I did, I got a slight buzz with no nod. Then I did 20mg got euphoria and a slight nod.

Last night I smoked loads of opium, and today I woke up and did 10mg of methadone again.

Im thinking about doing 30mg of methadone, I want to experience nodding out properly. 10mg diff did not do it, neither did 20...


Would 30mg do the job? or should I just do 25mg to be on the safe side?

Bad idea...
Heed 'Sepher's' advice. If you keep upping your dose yer' gonna find yourself praying to the porcelain alter in no time.

 

[Pars101]

I have a 40mg pill im going to do it tonight. I did 25mg smoked opium on it, and it was okay. I will do 40 to see what it does. Im sure I wont die, because ive learnt that blulight is FULL of shit. People scare mongering to the MAX.

 

[Znegative]

I don't have much experience with opium and it's relative strength to other drugs, especially since technique I imagine can wildly effect the bioavailability. However I do have experience with methadone.

IMO, methadone is not really a recreational opioid. Can you get really high off of it and nod the fuck out? Definately, though I've found it's only really possible to achieve that state at dangerous dosages, and I have been hospitalized for trying to achieve such a high.

I think people get confused when they hear about how strong methadone is, and then feel barely a buzz off 10 mg with a low tolerance. The thing is that there is a difference between being straight (out of withdrawals), and being high. When I had a relatively high heroin habit, 15 mg could hold me for at least half a day, but I would feel absolutely no euphoria. At 30mg, I would feel an elevated mood and sometimes even a little manic.

With little to no tolerance, I really never felt a proper buzz from Methadone at dosages under 50mg, and that is a huge, and in some cases fatal ammount of Methadone to take when your basically opiate naive. Even when I did take dangerously high dosages of Methadone when not on maintenance, I felt as though there was still something missing.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I have a 40mg pill im going to do it tonight. I did 25mg smoked opium on it, and it was okay. I will do 40 to see what it does. Im sure I wont die, because ive learnt that blulight is FULL of shit. People scare mongering to the MAX.

If you believe Bluelight is full of shit, why even ask us? It's a harm reduction site, so people are going to give advice to be on the safe side, not to help you get as high as possible and risk overdosing. You still haven't explained what your tolerance to opioids is, which could make a big difference. But I think your expectations for methadone are too high.

People have died from a lot less than 40mg.

 

[tricomb]

I have a 40mg pill im going to do it tonight. I did 25mg smoked opium on it, and it was okay. I will do 40 to see what it does. Im sure I wont die, because ive learnt that blulight is FULL of shit. People scare mongering to the MAX.

Wow, 40mg methadone would humble if not kill a person who has not been consistently taking methadone for an extended amount of time. What the fuck are you taking it for anyways? It's not recreational it's a tool not a toy. It's sad to see you're tainting opium with methadone, it's a shame your opium isn't quality enough on it's own, it's a truly beautiful experience but not when you add in other bullshit like a fully synthetic opioid maintenance drug.

You haven't "learnt" much if you're going to double your dose taking an amount equipotent to ~120 mg oxycodone, equal to ~240mg of morphine, which you would not even come close to consuming in 25mg opium even if your opium was completely pure.

I hope you don't die kid, many have at 40mg. Don't do that bullshit what the hell are you trying to prove.

 

[Sepher]

I have a 40mg pill im going to do it tonight. I did 25mg smoked opium on it, and it was okay. I will do 40 to see what it does. Im sure I wont die, because ive learnt that blulight is FULL of shit. People scare mongering to the MAX.

Call it scare-mongering if you like. I prefer to call it making you aware of worst-case scenario possibilities based on the very limited information you've given us cos hey, we don't know how sensitive you're gonna be to a given dose, do we, but more to the point Pars, neither do you mate! 8)

30mg of methadone has been known to kill opiate naive users. Fact. That's not me scare-mongering Pars. It's me trying to help you stay alive.

When did you last take a dose of methadone? If you've taken it in the last day or so you must allow for the long half-life before taking a repeat dose, bearing in mind that you could be a slow metaboliser. 40mg will add to whatever's left in your system giving a total dose > 40mg.

 

[Uncle Uncle]

Wow, 40mg methadone would humble if not kill a person who has not been consistently taking methadone for an extended amount of time. What the fuck are you taking it for anyways? It's not recreational it's a tool not a toy.

So I agree with the gist of this post but disagree with the quoted part. 40mg methadone is a starting low dose at every clinic I've ever been to, and anyone with an 'advanced' habit would be bitching to the counselor the day they drank their first 40mg cup of the stuff. Most junkies I ever knew at the clinic were at around 80, and some were way higher than that. 40mg won't kill or KO even a complete novice with zero tolerance, 80 is a mild average dose, and a lot of people drink over 120mg every day for years. It's important that we try to be accurate when giving advice, because people who see one part that's obviously wrong will jump to the conclusion that the entire thing is bullshit. It's like when the government tells us that you can get addicted to crack from one toke and the like - it actually causes people to do the things they are trying to convince us not to do, and to thoroughly distrust the source.

Past that, methadone sucks because when you take it you can't get high. Everybody I ever knew who got on the stuff went and shot a few bags the first few days on methadone because their urine was expected to be dirty for the first week or so. And 100% of them felt ripped off because they got exactly zero effect from the dope. So, taking it recreationally is a waste of time and money, and you have to wait for it to wear off before any of your real recreational drugs will do you any good at all. Might as well flush the opium down the toilet, or send it to me...

 

[tricomb]

Most junkies I ever knew at the clinic were at around 80, and some were way higher than that. 40mg won't kill or KO even a complete novice with zero tolerance, 80 is a mild average dose, and a lot of people drink over 120mg every day for years.

It's important to be accurate giving advise? Ha.. Then explain to me 1) How those maintenance doses of methadone are at all relevant to this person abusing it. 2) How people have died on less than 40mg of methadone, even at 30mg.

This guy isn't shooting heroin he's smoking a tiny amount of opium. -_____-

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^I was assuming tricomb meant for someone without a high opioid tolerance. Someone who is going on methadone because they have a serious heroin addiction is going to have a way higher tolerance than someone who has little to no opioid tolerance. 40mg could definitely kill someone opioid naive or with no tolerance. The OP has not said whether or not they have any tolerance or if they regularly use any other opioids they use other than opium.

And even for heroin addiction I wouldn't call 40mg of methadone a starting dose, 80mg a mild dose, and "lots of people" take 120mg. Plus it's very important to note that people are not started on doses over 40mg/day, their dose is gradually raised over time, and that even those who are given 40mg as a starting dose are assessed beforehand to make sure they have a high enough tolerance to handle it. Maybe some clinics in the US over-prescribe, but where I live 20mg is an average starting dose for a heroin addict, 40-50mg is a normal maintenance dose, and 80mg+ is considered an unnecessarily high dose. Even with clinics that do prescribe high doses, doses above 60mg/day are generally only given to people as a way to block other opioids completely and shut them up from complaining their dose isn't high enough, not because anyone actually requires a dose that high to prevent withdrawals.

EDIT: ninja'd by tricomb

 

[Sepher]

It's important that we try to be accurate when giving advice...

/Facepalms

You're talking opiate addicts, people who by definition have an opiate tolerance. That's why clinicians assume they can safely start you on 30-40mg, but they will carefully monitor the patient looking for evidence of over-medication / CNS depression over a period of days as they build to therapeutic levels. I can assure you 30-40mg can kill, and has killed abusers of methadone with no tolerance. Based on Pars posting history that I'm aware of and the information offered in this thread it's safest to assume that he's essentially opiate naive and frame any advice given on that basis, because yes, it's important that we try to be accurate when giving advice!

 

[Uncle Uncle]

people have died on less than 40mg of methadone, even at 30mg.

Just because it says that on Wiki doesn't mean it's true. 40 mg was the standard clinical analgesic dose for long term pain patients for about 30 years, but FDA issued a warning five or six years ago that there was a risk of impaired breathing and death and threatened to lock up doctors who prescribed 40s for any reason except detox. The identical warning is on two 7.5mg Vicodin, and they threaten to lock up doctors who prescribe any opioid or -ate. Facts, from actual experience, as opposed to the modern version of 'book knowledge'...

I purposely didn't go with the big numbers, but anyone who has actually been inside a methadone clinic will have seen some clients drinking in excess of 300mg every day. He did 20 and got a 'slight nod', so he isn't' going to fall out on 40. I should reiterate that if what you're after is to get high you shouldn't fool with dolophine at all, that everyone is responsible for the results of their own actions, and that getting online advice on how much dope to take is probably a very bad idea.

 

[Znegative]

I think this discussion is really not going to go anywhere, but I'll let it stay open a little bit longer. On the one hand, 40 mg of methadone can kill someone with a small to 0 tolerance, but to others it won't. I personally taken dosages well over 50 mg with basically NO tolerance at all (using dope maybe once a week if that) and survived. I have also taken the same dose on another occasion and overdosed. Basically, if you've got a little habit, and 30mg of Methadone is not getting you high, you should give up on it, because taking that dose, let alone more, is really playing with your life. No high is worth dying for, especially not the high you'll get from methadone.

As for the recreational value of Methadone, that is all a matter of oppinion. What is a fact, is that methadone is a very serious drug to fuck around with when your intention is getting high.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Just because it says that on Wiki doesn't mean it's true. 40 mg was the standard clinical analgesic dose for long term pain patients for about 30 years, but FDA issued a warning five or six years ago that there was a risk of impaired breathing and death and threatened to lock up doctors who prescribed 40s for any reason except detox. The identical warning is on two 7.5mg Vicodin, and they threaten to lock up doctors who prescribe any opioid or -ate. Facts, from actual experience, as opposed to the modern version of 'book knowledge'...

I purposely didn't go with the big numbers, but anyone who has actually been inside a methadone clinic will have seen some clients drinking in excess of 300mg every day. He did 20 and got a 'slight nod', so he isn't' going to fall out on 40. I should reiterate that if what you're after is to get high you shouldn't fool with dolophine at all, that everyone is responsible for the results of their own actions, and that getting online advice on how much dope to take is probably a very bad idea.

The fact that occasionally people on long-term methadone maintenance eventually raise their doses up to as high as 300mg is irrelevant. How much methadone will kill a person is completely dependent on their tolerance, as well as their individual metabolism, health condition, and whether or not they take any other drugs. Wikipedia doesn't say what dose of methadone can kill people, we aren't getting our info from there, but I notice you haven't provided any sources to back up your claim that 40mg can't kill someone. I have heard of plenty of people dying from taking less than 40mg.

The main problems with methadone that make it so dangerous, are that for many people it doesn't provide much euphoria/high, so they think it is safe to take more, that it takes so long to kick in, so people redose before effects have even peaked, and that it can have an extremely long and extremely variable half-life, anywhere from 4hrs to 190hrs, so people will take more while there is still a lot of methadone in their body from previous doses, (even when their last dose was days earlier). The other big problem is that taking other drugs or alcohol can vastly increase the dangers, and the OP has said they are taking other drugs while on it.

There have been many pain patients and recreational users who have died with normal therapeutic levels of methadone in their blood.

Of course it doesn't happen to everyone, it's not like any person without an opioid tolerance who takes 40mg is guaranteed to drop dead. But people need to be aware that they are taking very real risks.

 

[tricomb]

Just because it says that on Wiki doesn't mean it's true. 40 mg was the standard clinical analgesic dose for long term pain patients for about 30 years, but FDA issued a warning five or six years ago that there was a risk of impaired breathing and death and threatened to lock up doctors who prescribed 40s for any reason except detox. The identical warning is on two 7.5mg Vicodin, and they threaten to lock up doctors who prescribe any opioid or -ate. Facts, from actual experience, as opposed to the modern version of 'book knowledge'...

I purposely didn't go with the big numbers, but anyone who has actually been inside a methadone clinic will have seen some clients drinking in excess of 300mg every day. He did 20 and got a 'slight nod', so he isn't' going to fall out on 40. I should reiterate that if what you're after is to get high you shouldn't fool with dolophine at all, that everyone is responsible for the results of their own actions, and that getting online advice on how much dope to take is probably a very bad idea.

Wow, just... Wow. It's a very bad idea to get advice online when you can't trust the website to keep you safe when you post shit like this, our mission of bluelight is to keep people safe and minimize harm, we have a higher standard of posting than other websites for this reason.

First of all who said anything about Wikipedia?
300mg methadone maintenance? What does that have to do with anything, at all? Your spoutiing off random crap about methadone that does not apply to this situation.

This is a harm reduction focus forum, please treat it as one. Posting random irrelevant information like that gives readers a false sense of security. We don't leave things to chance or base our statements on maybes. There are lives at stake man don't encourage them to take chances that, whether you like it or not, have ended in deaths.

Your new here, so I would encourage you to read the OD Guidelines and the Bluelight User Agreement which you agreed to read upon creation of your account.

 

[tokenname]

As for the recreational value of Methadone, that is all a matter of oppinion. What is a fact, is that methadone is a very serious drug to fuck around with when your intention is getting high.

Seemed quotable to me.

You cannot forget how many ppl read this stuff...

hi 12 year olds..please leave the methadone alone.
it can kill you.
now ... go play.

~token