Methadone cold turkey?

[negrogesic]

The only way to prove it is to sit on 380mg/day for a year and just STOP. Let's see how many people survive that one.

While on that 380mg/day dose I was hit with narcan by a vindictive paramedic. I was strapped to a gurney, cussing him out, and the motherfucker did it. Within a minute I started involuntarily shitting myself. I've never been so cold in my life. Always wanted to find the guy and cut his thumbs off (so he can't use a syringe ever again), fortunately I don't remember the guy. I had taken a ton of phenobarbital and had passed out so someone called 911. I was fine, awake and talking, but yes, pretty aggressive in my refusal of medical services, but they forced me.

Talk about pain. Imagine the painful feeling of sticking your hand in a bucket of ice and holding it in there. That's how my whole body felt.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Someone I knew from Opiophile got a truly massive fentanyl habit. I mean 1 shot every 20 minutes (and 10mg+ per shot). A year and many doctors later and he was still a mess. But he did say that MXE gave him a break from the horrors.

Was he a dealer or a trust fund kid, really dealer is unlikely cause he’d have to be selling keys

 

[Joey]

I want it to be as quick and painless as possible. I don't want to spend a year trying to taper to still withdrawal like a mf. I guess the real question is.. I know 100 mg is a lot compared to like 10mg but in terms of withdrawal what are we talking.. Is it that much worse? Is it worth it to not have to slowly suffer for 9 months? Right now my starting dose was 149mg. I'm dropping 5mg a week. So far it's not to bad. I feel kinda shitty by midnight. So far my plan is to keep dropping 5mg a week until it starts to be to hard then either jump off or slow the taper. I really don't want to just lay there and die for a damn month tho either.

The more you are taking the more stress it will be yeah. Try a harder cut like 100 to 50 or 75 and see how you feel. It probably won’t be fantastic obviously but it’s doable. Generally I’ve found in physical addictions I can get away with half my dose on a low day and survive it. If you can’t handle the harder cuts take it easier obviously.

A cold turkey 100mg would be tough as hell and I’d think even hospitable for some for the worst of it like a detox centre. That’s actually an option you know. Go the hard route with supervision.

Assess how stable and resilient you feel mentally and that should gauge what you can handle. Be assertive with your doctor what you want to do. I’d say your physician will obviously want to pursue titration (weaning) at a slower pace to keep you safe, but ultimately it’s your life and your decision what you do in the interim or a withdrawal regarding staying safe.

People successfully withdraw from substances all the time.You can do it too. This isn’t about quitting forever or anything like that, it’s about getting to where you want to be now. Try not to let the paranoia of the future illness or craving steer you wrong,

 

[Joey]

Was he a dealer or a trust fund kid, really dealer is unlikely cause he’d have to be selling keys

He hustled clothing donation bins obviously, king clothes dealer, and shined shoes as well with a good old spitball.

I don’t think that habit sounds quite Richie rich expensive but a formidable one to be sure. I know when I ask me parents for grocery money I can keep things double digits for the day but he may have been three.

Fent is priced differently different places and the power of buying in bulk and not hanging out all the time with other money sucking scoundrels changes worlds in drug habits too. My meth habit was pretty massive but actually relatively cheap for a large duration of it because I’d buy sacks that brought my per gram cost down to 1/3 or less compared to normal.

 

[Joey]

While on that 380mg/day dose I was hit with narcan by a vindictive paramedic. I was strapped to a gurney, cussing him out, and the motherfucker did it. Within a minute I started involuntarily shitting myself. I've never been so cold in my life. Always wanted to find the guy and cut his thumbs off (so he can't use a syringe ever again), fortunately I don't remember the guy. I had taken a ton of phenobarbital and had passed out so someone called 911. I was fine, awake and talking, but yes, pretty aggressive in my refusal of medical services, but they forced me.

Talk about pain. Imagine the painful feeling of sticking your hand in a bucket of ice and holding it in there. That's how my whole body felt.

How fuckig long were you left in that state in hospital?

 

[Las Veghost grower]

He hustled clothing donation bins obviously, king clothes dealer, and shined shoes as well with a good old spitball.

I don’t think that habit sounds quite Richie rich expensive but a formidable one to be sure. I know when I ask me parents for grocery money I can keep things double digits for the day but he may have been three.

Fent is priced differently different places and the power of buying in bulk and not hanging out all the time with other money sucking scoundrels changes worlds in drug habits too. My meth habit was pretty massive but actually relatively cheap for a large duration of it because I’d buy sacks that brought my per gram cost down to 1/3 or less compared to normal.

I dunno…I guess at 10mg a shot a dime bag would last you a little over 3 hours, but who would want to keep hitting themself like that instead of just taking a knock you out shot

 

[Joey]

I dunno…I guess at 10mg a shot a dime bag would last you a little over 3 hours, but who would want to keep hitting themself like that instead of just taking a knock you out shot

Maintenance users, it’s actually a more responsible way and safer than knockout dosing. I maintained for a long time. More with crystal in my overall experience but I did. Few tokes at a time and take it easy. Any time I started escalating the amounts and ROA to IV and doing more and more it got so stupidly pointless and more damaging and costly. Quick.

Maintenance using and binging is actually possibly your difference between life and death and really the answer that a lot of people around these parts need. It’s harm reduction to a tee to not get stupidly zonked and risk death every time you get a decent bag. You actually risk possibly being mildly functional even if you ration things out yknow.

I’ve had my issues for a long time and I’ve been through every style of using. It’s tough but it’s staying safe and alive, fentanyl is extremely, extremely risky at any amount.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Maintenance users, it’s actually a more responsible way and safer than knockout dosing. I maintained for a long time. More with crystal in my overall experience but I did. Few tokes at a time and take it easy. Any time I started escalating the amounts and ROA to IV and doing more and more it got so stupidly pointless and more damaging and costly. Quick.

Maintenance using and binging is actually possibly your difference between life and death and really the answer that a lot of people around these parts need. It’s harm reduction to a tee to not get stupidly zonked and risk death every time you get a decent bag. You actually risk possibly being mildly functional even if you ration things out yknow.

I’ve had my issues for a long time and I’ve been through every style of using. It’s tough but it’s staying safe and alive, fentanyl is extremely, extremely risky at any amount.

I dunno, when I was using I would do everything almost immediately, self control non existent

 

[Joey]

I dunno, when I was using I would do everything almost immediately, self control non existent

A lot of people share this experience. Including myself at times.

 

[negrogesic]

How fuckig long were you left in that state in hospital?

They released me after maybe four or five hours, because I was fine. I was fine to begin with before they fucked with me.

The hospital was only two miles from where I lived at the time, so when they released me i walked back.

When i got home I took the largest single dose of methadone I've ever taken in my life, almost a gram (90 something 10mg tablets, so somewhere in the 900mg range). I got so wasted i fell asleep face down in some cereal. That was a tough day.

I was begging the dude not to do it, although I was also probably being an asshole, talking shit. Nevertheless its criminal (at least in a figurative sense) to administer naloxone to someone who is wide awake and refusing it, he was doing it to be a dick, not because i needed it. This was well over a decade ago, but if someone gave me that dudes name and address right now I'd probably arrange to have him crippled in some way (fortune for both of us that will never happen).

 

[SuperPsych]

I was begging the dude not to do it, although I was also probably being an asshole, talking shit. Nevertheless its criminal (at least in a figurative sense) to administer naloxone to someone who is wide awake and refusing it, he was doing it to be a dick, not because i needed it. This was well over a decade ago, but if someone gave me that dudes name and address right now I'd probably arrange to have him crippled in some way (fortune for both of us that will never happen).

I'm so sorry that that happened to you. Some people really should not be in the medical field, whether doctors, nurses or EMTs. I agree that it's criminal. They should be locked up and have their right to practice medicine in any form be revoked. They sound like a genuine sack of shit

 

[plumbus-nine]

QFT.. this is the reason I think tapering may be/is a miserable waste of time. thoughts?

I don't think tapering is a complete waste of time, but opioids indeed are weird. I didn't taper off but into duration. First I needed a XR capsule every 8h, and with "tapering" I could extend this duration to 24h. Somebody I know managed 48h, she wanted to feel the morphine and just did double IR doses every 48h without entering withdrawal in-between.

I think the best way is to taper as much as possible with the aid of comfort meds and then jump with a dissociative. Maybe, just maybe, you could do all in one step with a powerful disso but be prepared for the trip.

 

[Fertile]

I agree that with short-acting opioids, stretching the time between doses works. I did 24/12/24/12 a few times then got to 24. Instantly you halved your does.

Even M with a T½ of 2.5 hours will form a concentration curve that isn't that much lower at 24 hours than it is at 12 hours.

That done, work down your single daily dose. It's a great way to get 'half way' in 7-10 days with a snotty nose as worst symptom. Tried 48 hours but that DID cause proper withdrawal. It's called 'the lie in bed' method.

I suspect MMT does do this. Since you never get enough, they are allowing you to get pretty sick and will only increase dose slowly.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Not sure what the ideal dose is to CT but many people say that a LONG taper is necessary. Some people jump when they get down to 5 mgs. Others jump at 10, and others go down as low as even 1 mg. Tapering methadone is the only way to get off even if it takes a year or more.

You have been on it for 4 years and you are still on 109 mgs. Just keep tapering.

Methadone CT at your dose will be hell. Even when you get down to 10 it won't be easy but it sure beats trying to jump at anywhere between 20-80 mgs.

The only way you could jump at the dose you are on now is take 2 weeks off of work, get 100 bottles of Gatorade, lots of benzos and be prepared to suffer.

A couple of people on here have written stories about jumping from high doses and they have PTSD from it. I mean they aren't the same. They said it was horrible and the worst experience of their life. I'm not trying to scare you but take your time and taper, taper, and taper some more.

Welcome to Bluelight.

Definitely take it slow and easy. I was one of those who had to get down to 1mg to jump off and it took years.

But it was relatively painless and worth it in the end.

 

[Fertile]

I have often wondered why nations do not swap people to dihydrocodeine when they get below 10mg of methadone/day. The UK USED to, but since they have to provide multiple doses a day, I guess take homes were being sold (people will pay £1 for a 30mg DHC).

I've known people who were dependent back when juice-->DHC-->tricyclic was used by doctors. I even knew a guy who was given DHC because he had heart problems (heart valve replacement) and he got a fistful of DHCs each day. IVing had caused heart valve infection and he dies... I was just a kid but it's kept me away from needles.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Even switching to morphine for tapering would be beneficial, in my experience was morphine far easier in regards to withdrawal than methadone. And weirdly was snorting morphine superior to taking the XR capsules per oral. This was when I discovered that I could stretch the dosages.

But yeah in other times they used codeine for substitution, don't exactly know why no more. Possible that people sold it but same with morphine XR, methadone or subutex..

 

[Fertile]

Well morphine only has 20% bioavailability orally. I think it's 76-81% if snorted. BUT I argue that it may be absorbed by the mucosa slowly so really one can get almost 100% but due to that slower release, comparisons of peak plasma levels will only show 76-81%. If the whole area-under-the-curve was measured, then we would know, but circa 100% I think.

So yeah - if you are taking 20mg orally, 5mg nasally should do the same. The curve will be different due to slow release, but for M, it does allow one to use a lot less.

A habit that needs 5mg of M nasally BID is possible to just stop - but it will hurt. I would sit and get sick for as long as I could stand it and then dose. That way you are in the early stages of abstinence syndrome, but it never fully develops.

A variation of this is the 'Chinese cure' in which one puts a fixed amount of M solution into sterile water and every time you use some, you add the same volume of sterile water. If you look at the concentration curve, your drop starts fast but slows down.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I was under the impression that morphine has a higher BA orally than intranasaly.

But who nose?

 

[plumbus-nine]

I was under the impression that morphine has a higher BA orally than intranasaly.

Same here, previously I read that morphine orally had a slightly higher BA than intranasal, but both being roughly 30-40%.
But I extracted the morphine out of my capsules and snorted the pure crystals which came on pretty fast, faster than when chewing the XR up so I doubt there was much retardation by the nasal mucosa.

 

[Fertile]

I was under the impression that morphine has a higher BA orally than intranasaly.

But who nose?

Why not just Google it. It isn't deeply secret information, you know. For a long time M was usually provided in the form of a solution with a thickener so oral was the only practical route. Snorting the liquid doesn't work. Only later did tablets arrive. Of course, some addition salt of morphine are not good for the nose.

US20030077300A1 deals with it and notes bioavailability is the same as IV.