Meth/Amphetamines: Serious Discussion Only - V.2: MERGED with amps quitting thread

[dontstopthemusic]

never had a change to use meth... but kudos to you who can over come your addictions... and those who are trying keep up the fight... you are stronger than a drug... ive done many drugs in my life but never had meth.. so i cant say i know how you feel... but i know your struggle...

 

[Adelady]

Almost 3 weeks clean... this thread helped me make the decision, and gave me some really good detoxing pointers... thankyou all
First week detoxed at home by myself... fuck it was so hard... if I'd had the cash I wouldn't have gotten through, and I had the foresight to delete all contacts, thank goodness, or i would've ticced it up and got on it again...
Second week I got a place in inpatient withdrawal... it was really helpful to assist me in gaining focus, setting goals, and working out my game plan.
Home since Tuesday and I'm lucky to live in a drug-free house :D One housey hides in his room all day, and I've recruited the other two to 'Team Adelady'... told them the truth and they are so supportive... they even brought their dog (who I had looked after by myself for the 6 weeks previously when they were OS, forming a mega-bond with ...) into detox to see me one day... bless them That really made my day...
Happy to have a few beers, share a joint or the odd cone, but I hope to stay away from amphetamines, especially the pipe forever...
To all who are fighting, I join in and support you.

Love and positivity xx

 

[Addyman]

<nope>

 

[OverDone]

"This is the Speed/Meth/Amphetamines MEGA Thread. This thread will focus on the unique challenges and problems caused by amphetamine dependence. Talk about your struggles with psychosis, battle to get clean and generally get support here!"

- chicpoena

JUST TO ADD THE BASIC RULES HERE:
- no advocating anything in the amphetamine family
- think of wat u say wen u post.....diffrent ppl here r at diffrent stages of recovery - cud u b triggering a lapse/relapse by something u say
- no personal attacks.....plz PM the mods if u r upset by something a user has said.....we can usually sort it out
- this thread is about addiction, for addicts.....if ur not an addict, u r welcome to hav ur piece to say, but it must b helpful for us who r suffering from amphetamine addiction
-support/advice/(negative) experiences and ur offering help to others is the basis of this thread
- if u find ur post isnt here, high chance its been deleted cos u didnt read these rules properly

^^^

 

[Addyman]

Why can't this just be called the "Meth/Amphetamine Quitting/Abstaining Megathread"

I mean... wheres the normal meth megathread where I can actually talk about its use

 

[Legerity]

Other Drugs has the following thread about meth use: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/133903-Hints-and-tips-for-meth-smokers.. Probably not the best place if you are trying to abstain.

None of the threads in TDS are for discussing the high of a drug or how to get the most out of it, etc, etc.

 

[OverDone]

Why can't this just be called the "Meth/Amphetamine Quitting/Abstaining Megathread"

I mean... wheres the normal meth megathread where I can actually talk about its use

Why can't you adapt to the dissimilar nature of each Forum and read Guidelines?
If you have questions, PM a moderator of that Forum. Do not fuck with threads regarding serious topics simply because they don't meet your particular demands and self serving needs

 

[Doug2113]

I've been completely off meth for a year come December, and that time was the first time in 6 months I had done it. When I think about smoking...<snip>it makes me REALLY REALLY want to do it, but I resist. Will I EVER get rid of these cravings or will I just have to deal with it for the rest of my life? I never really seemed to be addicted to the feeling of being on it (I only had one or two SUPER spun moments where things fast-forwarded life to where I only experienced it in small intervals of time before it fast-forwarded it again to a new point in time with the super euphoria), but I just got SO OBSESSED with the act of smoking it (if you couldn't tell). I was on and off of it for about a year having no more than 6 weeks off of it between relapses (probably an average of 1.5-2 weeks between), and most of the time I quit/relapsed was because I lost a job/got a new one. So like I asked...will I ever get away from these...drug cravings isn't the right word...maybe ROA cravings, or smoking cravings? If that makes sense.

Edit: Sorry if this breaks guidelines. Delete parts of this that you must or even all of it. Just trying to express entirely what I'm struggling with specifically.

 

[DJW]

Good luck to all of you trying to quit. I was in your boat once, and I still face temptation, but I manage to do without. Not to sound cliche, but 'YOU CAN DO IT!' lol

 

[Legerity]

I've been completely off meth for a year come December, and that time was the first time in 6 months I had done it. When I think about smoking...<snip>it makes me REALLY REALLY want to do it, but I resist. Will I EVER get rid of these cravings or will I just have to deal with it for the rest of my life? I never really seemed to be addicted to the feeling of being on it (I only had one or two SUPER spun moments where things fast-forwarded life to where I only experienced it in small intervals of time before it fast-forwarded it again to a new point in time with the super euphoria), but I just got SO OBSESSED with the act of smoking it (if you couldn't tell). I was on and off of it for about a year having no more than 6 weeks off of it between relapses (probably an average of 1.5-2 weeks between), and most of the time I quit/relapsed was because I lost a job/got a new one. So like I asked...will I ever get away from these...drug cravings isn't the right word...maybe ROA cravings, or smoking cravings? If that makes sense.

Edit: Sorry if this breaks guidelines. Delete parts of this that you must or even all of it. Just trying to express entirely what I'm struggling with specifically.

Yes it seems like you are as attached to smoking as the meth itself. I've met lots of people that quit whatever and say that years down the road they still have occasional thoughts about it but that it just doesn't really have an effect anymore. If somebody continues to have strong cravings for years I suspect that some of the reasons behind the substance use had not been completely dealt with.

 

[footscrazy]

If somebody continues to have strong cravings for years I suspect that some of the reasons behind the substance use had not been completely dealt with.

I agree with this. Most of the years I was using I used very regularly but there was one point when I had a year off. I guess I knew during that time that it was just a break. I wasn't planning to use again, but I hadn't planned not to use again, and I think that makes all the difference.

Now, I'm at a point again where I've been quit for 9 months (exactly today %)) and I feel very different than I did during my year break. I know that I wont use again. It's because of that that I think the cravings have lessened so much. Now cravings are just an annoyance so I don't even indulge them for a second. Because I think when you haven't decided not to use again it's easy to reminisce, and fall back into cravings, imagining what it used to be like, because you think it will help you make an informed decision about what's better, using or not using, or something. And because one part of your brain does want to use - and cravings are that part of the brain's way to get you to use, because cravings release a small amount of dopamine to persuade you to go and find even more, by using. That's why strong cravings can almost feel like being high.

Anyway, I can attest to the fact that cravings can lessen even after years of abuse. There was a time when even reading the word would send a hot wave of adrenaline coursing through me, have me shaking and unable to focus. My cravings were intense. Now, I can think about it and my body doesn't even react. I still find it amazing, but awesome too. I still do get the odd craving, but they hold no power over me anymore.

 

[snookum]

I'm new here.. I'm now 8 months clean from smoking crystal meth.. I had a huge panic attack from a comedown 1 day that's why I stopped smoking, the panic attacks are gone but I'm still very anxious to this day
and lately I'm having hypnagogic hallucinations before sleeping.. I would like to ask if some of you guys experience this? is this PAWS? will the anxiousness and the hypnagogic hallucinations stop?.. I hope somebody
could enlighten me thanks guys!

well done on ur 8 months, its a hell of an achievement
i would say anxiety and meth use kinda go hand in hand, atleast as far as i understand. My anxiety would linger long after the smoking stopped. I went to a psychologist on a monthly basis for 6 months and she actually helped alot in curbing my anxiety. She showed me meditation techniques, and disciplining mysubconscious scripts. Made a huge difference
As for the hynagogic hallucinations- are u referring to the times when when ur mind is awake but ur body is asleep/paralysed? I hated that too! It used to scare the shit out of me, i would pop half a benzo to relax me. It went away pretty quickly once i got a regular pattern happening. All the best mate.

 

[im3rdworld]

i have a love and hate relation with meth. when ever i go clean for a few weeks i miss the energy. i personally have never had a bad pyscological or physical reaction from amps ( heavy user since three years). but i know they are dangerous because you can be addicted to it and still live a normal life and not know it and than out of nowhere it spirals out of control leaving one in a big mess.
my advice would be if you have not done it dont experiment with it. amphetamines are very deceptive in nature.

 

[Cohesion]

I need to talk about a huge trigger, feedback is welcome.

The trigger is that I have an appointment with a new Psychiatrist in 10 days. I am having minor cravings. I have been off Adderall for 4+ months. Last week I started toying with the idea of Vyvanse. I am extremely confident I can get almost any drug I want from almost any doctor.

6 weeks ago I conveniently set the stage for this when I came in for assessment. The case worker fed into my portrayal of "exacerbating ADHD symptoms"; I know this because I read her case notes. FWIW I do not have ADHD; in fact my concentration is superb due to 20-50 minutes/day meditation.

I am working to justify my use of Vyvanse (if I get prescribed as planned).

A) I am actually doing true recovery and emotional work for the first time ever; I feel strong willed.

B) I will take it as prescribed because I am subject to random drug screens that test my levels. I have my parenting rights at stake; I will not risk bad drug test results.

C) I have a friend who is willing to give me my medication daily OR flush it if I prove incapable of controlling myself to not overtake it.

D) My plan is to use it for only 3 months. I don't want to use it longer because amphetamine=hair loss. I am willing to go through the process of withdrawl because I believe potential benefits (point E listed below) will outweigh the temporary pain of withdrawl.

E) I believe it will help me to stay focused & motivated on working more, thus making lots of money. This is important to me because I want to get a 2 bedroom apartment, with a sizeable kitchen, and have enough for furnishings, etc.

I will be looking for responses. I can't talk about this trigger in my outpatient because my stay will be extended; I cannot afford to give up any more time away from my developing child. Sharing about it in AA/NA isn't going to help because I need solid feedback.

TIA

 

[godlovesugly]

im 6 months clean from meth. this is the longest ive been clean. its crazy. i still struggle with the mental obsession i have with this drug. and i still get the drug dreams that are intense. but i just gotta remember, i cant use NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[Legerity]

@mami

When I was focusing on staying away from the speed pills going around here, being prescribed dexedrine was a big help. My entire lifestyle improved. That said, I did eventually begin to binge on them for days just like I would with anything else. Whetherany benefit was from the substance itself or just from having replaced something wrong with it, I don't know. Whether this was from the substance itself or just from having replaced something "stronger" (i.e. illegal with stigma) than it, I don't know. But I don't really care either. If it helps you then it helps you. If you notice it preventing you from achieving whatever it is that you want to achieve then you know that it is always possible to change your plans. All the best

 

[footscrazy]

If you notice it preventing you from achieving whatever it is that you want to achieve then you know that it is always possible to change your plans.

The problem is this is sometimes easier said than done, and it gets harder once you're actively using.

mami, I think only you can make the decision, but try to be as fully aware of your motivations as possible. From your post it seems to me at some level you feel there's more to wanting vyvanse than it's purely functional use. I say this because of how you've talked about 'setting the stage', your triggers, and your mild cravings. If you really, truly knew you only wanted it for a medicinal use, would you even need to justify it?

I can only speak from experience when I say I can be extremely good at convincing even myself that I have no ulterior motives for doing something. A sometimes useful trick I use with myself, is that whenever my thoughts are justifying the use of a psychoactive drug, I know it's my addiction speaking!

I guess another question would be, if it really helps you to achieve your goals of working hard and earning money, why would you stop after 3 months? Even if you achieve your goal of getting your apartment, surely earning more money while working on vyvanse would easily be a justifiable reason to keep taking it instead of stopping and earning less money. This is where I think you can get into dangerous territory. I too justified my (meth) use with the thought I'd earn more money, but overall, the time I lost due to addiction and recovery far outweighed any small extras I got while using.

 

[Legerity]

Oh hell yeah it's very hard to learn to differentiate. And I don't claim that I'm fully able to. What I mean is that it doesn't really matter in the end.

I have bouts of paranoia...sometimes if I've doing a lot of amphetamines I think I'm speaking to spies, robots, people after to get me, etc.

Sounds fucked up, no? But I can also totally ignore that and live my life normally without worrying about any of those things because ultimately they do not matter.

I''m NOT saying that's it's necessarily good or healthy to have paranoia. But if it does comes, it seems there's two options. Learn to live with it there, or get consumed with it and stuck in a permanent state of psychosis. And for the record, I don't necessarly think psychosis is a sickness or delusional. Just a different perspective. It's easy for a person to discount it until they've experienced it. But permanently stuck there isn't really helpful if you want to function within society. At least in my experience every time that I've experienced it and let it pass, my mind has been in a stronger state than it was before.

So I'm not recommending that all. And I certainly don't use speed to achieve that paranoia. But if it's there, it can be managed and I predict that once it's fully seen for what it is then all fear becomes powerless because one has learned to experience pretty much the worst fear possible without letting it take over their mind. Just how threatening can something like losing your job seem after you've experienced the terror of having conspiracies created against you.

So...eliminate fear, or accept it? I've spent years trying to eliminate it and it's gotten me nowhere. If I can feal fear without it determining my behaviour then I'm free to do what I want.

I'll be honest though...I've been pretty close to losing it at times and still have some actions to take to undo paranoid decisons that I've made under the influence. And I've come close to doing some things that cannot be undone. But I wouldn't change a thing; and having faced the fear of death, powerlessness, conspiracies against me, etc., there's not really much else I can worry about because I've already felt all those fears.

There are certainly other things i'm stressed about. But the fear is the same. The fear I feel of failure is the same amount of fear I would have of death. Fear is empty regardless of where it comes from. But real or not, I've had the expereince of fearing for my life and now no longer have to wonder about how that feels. I dunno, I just try to look at the bright side. As long as I'm able to process the experience and return back to a functional state then I'm grateful for that.

Again...not suggesting this to anybody. This is just how it is for me. If I could tweak every day without anxiety I sure as hell would. But if the anxiety is there I prefer to learn from it than to let it control me.

 

[footscrazy]

What I mean is that it doesn't really matter in the end.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Decisions have consequences, and maybe you can learn to live with them or they make you a stronger person in the end, but they could also have negative consequences. To a certain level I think it's important to predict the consequences of your actions, and make decisions that you think will be the best for you. As a recovering meth addict myself I couldn't conceptualise a choice to use a stimulant drug again to not really matter in the end. In fact, I think it would greatly alter the course of my life.

I do apologise if this isn't what you were getting at.

 

[Legerity]

No I totally agree with you that each person needs to assess what the consequences of their actions are. My actions should have, and still may, lead to me getting deeper into something that I will forever regret. This is my personal choice to take a risk and I am willing to deal with the consequences. Of course I think I'm right. But there is not very much I'm attached to. Job, money, home, etc. The attachments that I have left I'm working on getting rid of.

Because of it, I'm so fascinated by the process, and am willing to put everything I have on the line in order to learn about it.

In no way do I suggest that this is what somebody else should do. In the past, maybe I would be more tempted to push my views on others. This is inappropriate, because many of my views are theoretical from what I have read and studied without having gone through myself.

So while I don't suggest it, I also won't hide it because if I do end up having learned what I had hoped, then that is useful information for others. If I'm totally wrong and end up with a permanent psychosis, then that is also a learning experience for myself and one more case to show people just how deceiving and dangerous meth/amphetamines can really be.

So of course I have my assumptions. I'm just willing to test them until the end. I do not want to be a cliche but please do not do what I do and assume it is something good. It's like an experiment on myself.

In the future I will attempt to make it more clear that my beliefs are still being tested. I do have several experiences that would be warning signs to stop. I also have several experiences that indicate it is worth further exploring. This is just a personal endeavor and because I truly have nothing to lose that would prevent me from exploring this (career, family, wealthy, etc.) I'm in the perfect opportunity to do so.

I've also been studying drugs and addiction for years (psychology, addiction counseling, in rehab, worked in rehab, 12-step programs, academic research). And I also tend to be painfully introspective. I don't necessarily have a better understanding but I do believe that I have a perspective that could only be had based on my own experiences. Just like each of us. If I don't test them out then I feel it would have all been for nothing.

So everybody: As certain as I pretend to be sometimes, please just many my theoretic posts as some sort of experiment and hope that I do well or hope that I lose my mind, depending how you feel about me I'm sorry if I've encouraged others to follow my path.

As of now if I offer suggestions I will make sure that it is based on support rather than theories I believe in that I've not yet completely finished exploring. It isn't right for me to do so. But I also appreciate the opportunity to be able to share them as long as I acknowledge what they are.