(Mephedrone/30+35+35 mg throughout the night) (IV) New experience: Cautionary tale

[Dondante]

T+0:00 30 mg mephedrone IV
T+0:20 35 mg mephedrone IV
T+1:40 35 mg mephedrone IV

I had been debating whether or not I would ever actually try this compound due to the numerous warnings about potential cardiotoxicity and reports of severe vasoconstriction. I decided to test a small amount, under the reasonable hypothesis that cardiac effects were likely similar to those of ephedrine. It has been hypothesized that a metabolite may be responsible for the most significant ephedrine-like cardiovascular effects. One source cited this potential metabolite with 3.4x the toxicity of ephedrine in guinea pigs. The mechanism hypothesis made me more comfortable with trying smalldoses. I took a low dose of propanolol (10 mg) just before the first trial … yes, I am aware that concomitant use of beta-blockers with catecholamine stimulants is controversial, but recent data seems to indicate that the overall effect of beta-blockers may still be protective. In hindsight, even this low dose was probably a bad idea.

My headspace is good. I've had a productive and low stress week on my outpatient pediatrics rotation. I've been running and lifting a lot recently and the spring/summer weather has put me in a positive mood. My wife went to the gym, leaving me at home by myself. I haven't taken MDMA in a few years, and haven't had any dopaminergic stimulants in over a couple months. I'm looking forward to trying some rare psychedelics later this summer, but I haven't tripped since March.

T+0:00 HR 56 BP 126/82
I inject the solution very slowly over about a minute to assess for an acute increase in heart rate, which I did not detect. Suddenly, the rays of sun coming in through the window seem to brighten and the light shimmers on the carpet. The buzz quickly blossoms into powerful euphoria. I was surprised to feel an effect from such a small dose as IV MDMA did not have any detectable effect at 1/5 the standard oral dose. I was expecting some minor stimulation and planning on doing a little studying if there was minimal effect. I decide to take my BP.

T+0:02 HR 130 BP 174/88
I am not particularly concerned about the BP; it is not dangerously elevated. I don’t think propanolol was necessary seeing as it couldn’t have kicked in yet and my heart rate is not significantly elevated. I am feeling amazing. The headspace is reminiscent of MDMA. I feel the empathy component of the compound strongly. It feels great to stretch and walk around. I walk outside and water my plants. I am incredibly meticulous with brushing some dirt off budding rosemary and basil plants. I walk inside and pour myself a glass of water.

T+0:12 HR 126
I wasn't planning on taking the other 35 mg that I had already put through the micron filter, but I suddenly feel like I am coming off the peak and there is no question in my mind as to whether or not another test is in order. The desire to redose is frighteningly strong. There is moderate amount of jaw tension present. A tinge of anxiety splashes over me, and I am worried about the strength of my resolve to avoid repeated dosing with this compound tonight and in the coming weeks. I am currently on my final rotation of the third year of medical school, and my last exam is in two weeks. I am certain that mephedrone will end up being a detriment if I let myself repeat this experience before wrapping things up.

T+0:20
I push the second shot. This feels wonderful. Tactile sensation is amplified. My mental state could be described as crisp and fresh, although attention is fleeting. It is difficult to maintain focus and I'm certain I am displaying some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. I clean up my supplies and proceed to clean the rest of the desk, organizing and stacking my books.

T+0:22 HR 120 BP 180/96

T+0:40 HR 100
I start to feel the pull of the substance again. I feel helpless against the desire to draw up another shot. In retrospect, this stuff was totally hijacking my reinforcement-reward pathway.
T+1:40 HR 90
Third dose goes in. There is an absolutely incredible rush, better than cocaine IV. I only tried that a few times before I knew I could never touch the stuff again … and now it’s been well over a year since I gave it up. In retrospect, I feel duped … like the reward center of my brain tricked me into trying this substance, while I rationalized the trial as simple novelty seeking, which is undoubtedly a strong part of my personality.

T+1:42 HR 100 BP 158/116 (left arm) 162/118 (right arm)
That’s somewhat more worrisome; diastolic of almost 120! Hopefully, the BP won’t stay elevated to this degree for too long. The propanolol is keeping my HR in check, but at the expense of my systemic blood pressure. There is undoubtedly some unopposed alpha-adrenergic stimulation going on. Obviously another antihypertensive would be preferred, but I thought the benefits of controlling the HR with propanolol would outweigh the risks of temporary elevation in blood pressure.

T+1:50 HR 90 BP 156/116
I am getting a bit of pressure in my head and my face is feeling hot.

T+2:00 HR 80 BP 154/102 Temp 36.1
Phew, coming back down. I’m not feeling the high BP anymore. This experience has really put me off the substance. The third shot was euphoric initially, but the severe hypertension was frightening. I just took 0.5 mg alprazolam and 10 mg cyclobenzaprine for the jaw clenching, which is now slightly annoying.

T+2:40 HR 80 BP 136/92
I’m feeling a bit strung out, but not too terrible. I’m incredibly relieved that the hypertension didn’t last for long. I successfully get to sleep about an hour later.

This is now the following afternoon, and I just poured the rest of my mephedrone down the sink. I felt tired today, and emotionally flat. No matter what I was doing, my mind came back to the mephedrone. Part of me was constantly trying to rationalize another dose tonight. I knew deep down that one more dose would turn into two or three. I came very close to giving in after my wife went out to dinner tonight with some friends, but somehow I came up with the will power to get rid of the stuff. It was a battle to say the least. I’ve come to the conclusion that this chemical is not only dangerous, but it would be nothing but trouble if it stayed around. I feel an enormous sense of relief after throwing the stuff away. I have too many responsibilities and good things going for me right now to waste my energy on a cheap, short-lived high. Mephedrone is a pleasure drug with few redeeming qualities in my opinion. It joins the ranks of cocaine and opiates in my book as a purely hedonistic drug, with the negatives vastly outweighing any positives.

Just to note, there was some coolness of the extremities, but no purple blotchy rash to speak of. I have little doubt, however, that this compound will claim more lives with the reckless dosing that some are claiming. Chronic use of this compound will almost certainly lead to hypertensive cardiomyopathy and possibly valvular heart disease as well. Stroke, arrhythmia, and myocardial infarction are all very real risks with this compound. The all too common reports of chest pain/pressure are indicative of myocardial ischemia, the precursor of myocardial infarction (aka heart attack). I realize that my IV report is difficult to interpret in terms of equivalent oral or insufflated dosing, but I think everyone should be aware of the potential dangers of this compound.

Even if it weren't for the serious cardiac concerns, I'd steer clear of this substance. Personally, I try to be rather strict with justifying my drug use. I carefully rationalized the use of psychedelics as a means to explore new perspectives and facilitate my personal/spiritual development. I eventually got a little lax with my rules and wound up experimenting with stims and opiates, both of which brought much more pain than pleasure in the end. Mephedrone is another that just isn't worth it. Bottome line: if a drug is capable of taking away more happiness than it brings, then it is not worth it.

Pleasure is a fleeting state. Seek love and happiness.

 

[tobala]

Very useful information. It's always good when you (decide to) show up, Dondante...

 

[An Iz]

Countdown till the next RC crackdown.

And this time it'll probably be a good thing if it gets this off the market.

I'm def. not singling you out Dodante, but think about this:

People who post about the drug on the internet are in a position in life where they actually have access to the internet and the intelligence to find a site like bluelight where they can learn about drugs.

Those people are in, at worst, the top 40% of drug users, in terms of being able to handle life. And we already see tons of people going overboard and damaging their body in this group!

MANY "real world" drug users will take any chemical to excess, without any regard for their body or health, and without any desire to know anything about what they're ingesting. For example, on these forums people really strongly frown on taking more than 20mg of a 2c chemical. The people I meet in real life usually take at least 50mg to start, and there are plenty of people who dose in the hundred milligram range consistently. On bluelight selling drugs is really frowned upon, in real life the attitude seems to be "get everyone you know to take as much as possible, and then sell it as ecstasy at concerts."

And that problem exists with drugs that are self-titrating! Put something dangerous like mepehdrone or desoxypiperadol (dangerous for a different reason) 'on the market' and you're asking for trouble. Whoever decided to sell chemicals like these to the general public is really an insane nihilist in my opinion. I mean, without ever touching mephedrone in my life, I know for a fact someone is ordering ounces and selling it as coke to unsuspecting drug users and putting all their lives in danger. And the addictive properties of this drug really compound the dangers. The people who are selling this -at all- may end up being worse than those who were selling fentanyl as heroin and killed a bunch of Chicagoans a few years ago, in my opinion. Because at least fentanyl can be safe.

Anyway, end rant.

 

[Dondante]

No offense taken.

Quoted for truth:

the vendors should have pulled this stuff when adverse effects were first apparent, but they don't give a fuck as long as the money rolls in.

 

[Link_S]

Well the bottom line has and always will be money

And in their defense adverse effects are apparent in a minority but meph use is so widespread and there have been so few deaths attributed to it that its a pretty safe bet they wont be facing a manslaughter charge.

Saying that though there is definitely something 'iffy' about the substance

 

[tobala]

^ Good points by all.

And in their defense adverse effects are apparent in a minority but meph use is so widespread and there have been so few deaths attributed to it that its a pretty safe bet they wont be facing a manslaughter charge.

As an aside, the same could be said of 2C-T-7 and 2C-T-21, but when a couple of people died abusing the shit out of the stuff, WebTryp 2004 kicked in and a few vendors went to jail for a long time.

 

[psood0nym]

You have a wise attitude, and I'm glad you were able to do what you need to do in order to live up to it. Becoming aware of rationalizations is something anyone who plans to use drugs should try to do. Watch out though, rationalization is the smart abuser's ego defense, and the smarter the user, the better the rationalization. Thanks for the report Don.

I've used mephedrone about a half dozen times now. I've never re-dosed. Rather, I've attempted to prolong the effects with amphetamines and opiates (oxycontin, dilaudid, pods). The first experience was followed by another the next day, and the next (I was on vacation at the time). I definitely felt lethargy and a mild depression through the following days. I'm keeping it to use with a psychedelic in the hopes that it can add something, but I'm not sure. I think IM aMT is the best candidate for adding a positive push to another psychedelic, but I'll give mephedrone a shot in a few combos.

 

[tambourine-man]

Great report. Enjoyed reading the details and particular minutia.

I feel an enormous sense of relief after throwing the stuff away. I have too many responsibilities and good things going for me right now to waste my energy on a cheap, short-lived high.

I share the feeling of it being a potential wrecking ball to an otherwise stable existence...

Mephedrone is a pleasure drug with few redeeming qualities in my opinion. It joins the ranks of cocaine and opiates in my book as a purely hedonistic drug, with the negatives vastly outweighing any positives.

...but there's a time and a place for such hedonism. Mephedrone and the other drugs you mention have their uses for mindless self-indulgence - and there's nothing wrong with fattening your ego from time to time (and place to place).

Therein lies the problem. Maybe it's just me, but I detect a hint of guilt in your report. Your headspace might have been clear but you seem to berate yourself for the appreciation of self-indulgence.

Personally, I try to be rather strict with justifying my drug use. I carefully rationalized the use of psychedelics as a means to explore new perspectives and facilitate my personal/spiritual development. I eventually got a little lax with my rules and wound up experimenting with stims and opiates, both of which brought much more pain than pleasure in the end.

That's a hell of a set to bring with you into an experience. Perhaps the mephedrone experience is comparatively one-dimensional, but one can never appreciate a drug like mephedrone with a skewed history of use and motivation. If your history is stricly based around drugs being a vehicle for enlightenment, then it'll always leave you feeling empty... and probably guilty.

Mephedrone is another that just isn't worth it. Bottome line: if a drug is capable of taking away more happiness than it brings, then it is not worth it.

LOL... time to stop taking drugs then. They're all pretty much capable of that outcome in the 'wrong' hands.

Pleasure is a fleeting state. Seek love and happiness.

Philosophical question: Can a series of regularly pleasurable experiences aggregate into happiness? Perhaps not. If you read the EADD mephedrone threads, you'll find that they appear to aggregate into a flurry of furious masturbation and threads devoted to wanking technique.

Still... nice report.

 

[psood0nym]

Therein lies the problem. Maybe it's just me, but I detect a hint of guilt in your report. Your headspace might have been clear but you seem to berate yourself for the appreciation of self-indulgence.

Dondante can and likely will speak for himself, but I know that if I felt "duped" by my reinforcement-reward pathway, as he writes, I might feel a bit of shame. I think I sense what you are detecting, but the shame strikes me as deriving not from his appreciation of mindless pleasure, but from the fact that despite all he has worked for and that he has going for him such a mindless force retains the power to control his behavior. Given his honest self-appraisal in this report, I'd say getting rid of it was the mindful thing to do (well, second most mindful to sending it to me).

 

[Dondante]

^Very accurate assessment.

Therein lies the problem. Maybe it's just me, but I detect a hint of guilt in your report. Your headspace might have been clear but you seem to berate yourself for the appreciation of self-indulgence.

There's more than a tinge of guilt, but it is not in regards to the hedonism per se. Check out my AET & IV Hydromorphone report for my opinion on hedonism. Keep in mind that report was written before I ran into some trouble with IV drug use. At the time of that report, I prided myself on my level of self-control. I had no problem leaving a vial of dilaudid sitting around for months without experiencing any significant desire to indulge.

A little over a year after that report was written, however, I tried IV cocaine. I only repeated the experience a dozen or so times, but IV cocaine sinks its teeth in fast. A few bell-ringers are capable of rewiring the reward circuitry in a frighteningly powerful way. The following six months, I dabbled in heroin and fentanyl. Finally, toward the end of the summer, I had a powerful trip that helped me drop it completely. With the exception of DMT, I didn’t experiment with IV drugs for almost a full year (not to mention I went from a mediocre student to the top of my class). That period of abstinence was until this past week when I got a small quantity of oxycontin and then the mephedrone.

Simply put, I no longer have the same sense of self-control around such drugs ... quite the opposite actually; I just poured a drug down the sink because I don't trust myself with it. That's difficult to admit, but true. Getting rid of the mephedrone was liberating because I no longer have to struggle with the urges and seductive rationalizations. The mephedrone was particularly dangerous for me because it reminded me so much of cocaine, and to make matters worse, it’s even more cardiotoxic. If I’d stuck with oral ROA, I might have been okay.

Philosophical question: Can a series of regularly pleasurable experiences aggregate into happiness?

I think in some instances hedonism is rather benign, but it’s never added up to any kind of long term benefit in my experience.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

For example, on these forums people really strongly frown on taking more than 20mg of a 2c chemical. The people I meet in real life usually take at least 50mg to start, and there are plenty of people who dose in the hundred milligram range consistently.

O rly? I've not seen this on BL before, and if it is around, it's a rather asinine statement. Try taking taking 20mg of say 2C-D, 2C-C, 2C-F, 2C-G, or 2C-N; many people would barely feel that dose, and for some of them they would feel nothing.

 

[Swerlz]

@An Iz: It all depends on the 2c you're consuming. I wouldn't say most BLers frown upon considering that you've only been a member here for a couple months. Lurk moar

 

[tambourine-man]

There's more than a tinge of guilt, but it is not in regards to the hedonism per se. Check out my AET & IV Hydromorphone report for my opinion on hedonism. Keep in mind that report was written before I ran into some trouble with IV drug use. At the time of that report, I prided myself on my level of self-control. I had no problem leaving a vial of dilaudid sitting around for months without experiencing any significant desire to indulge.

A little over a year after that report was written, however, I tried IV cocaine. I only repeated the experience a dozen or so times, but IV cocaine sinks its teeth in fast. A few bell-ringers are capable of rewiring the reward circuitry in a frighteningly powerful way. The following six months, I dabbled in heroin and fentanyl. Finally, toward the end of the summer, I had a powerful trip that helped me drop it completely. With the exception of DMT, I didn’t experiment with IV drugs for almost a full year (not to mention I went from a mediocre student to the top of my class). That period of abstinence was until this past week when I got a small quantity of oxycontin and then the mephedrone.

Simply put, I no longer have the same sense of self-control around such drugs ... quite the opposite actually; I just poured a drug down the sink because I don't trust myself with it. That's difficult to admit, but true. Getting rid of the mephedrone was liberating because I no longer have to struggle with the urges and seductive rationalizations. The mephedrone was particularly dangerous for me because it reminded me so much of cocaine, and to make matters worse, it’s even more cardiotoxic.

Wow. Fair enough. That history gives the TR a deeper context. Hope I didn't cause any offence by my inquiry.

I can see where you're coming from and yes, chucking it down the drain was probably the right thing to do - especially if you could hear it it softly calling your name. Whatever works for you.

If I’d stuck with oral ROA, I might have been okay.

Perhaps. But I guess in your line of work, IV rigs are easily acquired and brought home? Maybe you need to pour the needles down the sink, rather than the drug (metaphorically speaking)?

 

[Damien]

Excellent report. Thanks for typing it out.

 

[tobala]

I've been "duped" by my reward-reinforcement pathway, and I always threw the stuff away--up my fuckin nose...

 

[stardust.hero]

Full caps LOOOL @ tobala for that comment.

 

[Jabberwocky]

awesome report just what i'd been looking for (to help me justify IVing a few small doses) as i will be experimenting with this drug in the very near future.

Obviously another antihypertensive would be preferred, but I thought the benefits of controlling the HR with propanolol would outweigh the risks of temporary elevation in blood pressure.

have you actually found the better class of antihypertensive to combat the cardiovascular risks?

 

[Dondante]

^This is anything but a justification!

Even at those doses, permanent cardiac damage, stroke, and peripheral nerve damage are very real risks.

If you'd read my report in its entirety, you'd see that I concluded that the only reasonable thing to do - the only way to avoid the overwhelming negative effects - is to dispose of the compound, which is exactly what I did.

 

[BehindMind]

Excellent and well written report! I haven't tried Mephedrone and I most likely never going to.

I think that the second last sentence sums it up pretty well.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^This is anything but a justification!

Even at those doses, permanent cardiac damage, stroke, and peripheral nerve damage are very real risks.

If you'd read my report in its entirety, you'd see that I concluded that the only reasonable thing to do - the only way to avoid the overwhelming negative effects - is to dispose of the compound, which is exactly what I did.

8) i read your entire report and i'm not trying to justify anything, it was a sarcastic remark. i'll be using regardless, knowing the risks associated - i like to be prepared.

i was merely asking if you'd found a better anti-hypertensive to combat those negatives you had. thanks for your concern though.

so i can assume you don't know of a better anti-hypertensive?