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[MEGA] Meditation

Well if by meditation we are talking about some sort of samadhi-state couldn't you class the person deeply enthralled by video games as being in a working samadhi state? Not the same as absolute samadhi by any means.
 
I'm sure many of us face the problem of meditate or medicate. I feel like I'm able to reach the sort of perspectives that I find ideal through the use of certain psychedelic drugs, although its just not feasible physically or psychologically to continue to take these drugs as frequently as I do for very much longer. Meditation seems like the most logical and well tested method of cultivating these states without the use of drugs. I tried to establish a habit of requiring myself to meditate for a certain amount of time each day before I take drugs of any kind but a bag of ketamine put an end to that quickly. I guess that system sets up meditation to be too reward oriented which is counterproductive. It will be a long road though with many failures.

Does anyone find certain drugs to be more conductive twards meditation rather than others? Today I took about 700 micrograms of DOM which created a lucid and grounded sense of calm but also a feeling of wakefulness. I went on a long walk and counted my breath as I walked. I ended up on a bridge over the highway just watching the cars pass with my perspective cut in half by the left and right lane. The cars created an ambient roaring sound that reminded me of a waterfall, and I thought of the idea of watching thoughts like leaves pass on a river. This threshold dose of DOM was very conductive to meditation. I think there's alot of good to be had from very small doses of psychedelics with meditation.

When I've tried meditating on caffeine or non psychedelic amphetamines my mind is unable to reach a sense of calm and I'm constantly bombarded by ideas of other activities I "should" be doing. Using pot with meditation is sortof counter productive although I've reached very interesting but some what depersonalized states with this combination. Meditation on ketamine I've found to be very difficult but very useful to be able to direct the experience and help remember it. Sometimes this can get me a little too far to places where I'm not sure if I should really be experiencing. It can also be profoundly depersonalizing to the point of being disturbing. Although these experiences are sometimes frightening they definitely let me experience a selfless oneness with the universe. I often wonder what these states are in relation to the states achieved in meditation. There hasn't been too much discussion of peoples experiences with drugs in relation or conjunction to meditation, I'm curious what your perspectives are on this. I'm also interested in techniques of using sensory deprivation in conjunction with meditation.
 
Since I started doing opiates again I haven't felt the desire to meditate at all. Now that I am trying to get sober I have been meditating slightly more, albeit sporadically.

I have read how ketamine feels like you are "just about" to break through to the ultimate reality. This puts me off from it (I have never tried it, and I don't plan to). As I don't want to be like a bunny on the treadmill chasing after the carrot. I'd rather go through the hell of addiction and hopelessness and come out on the other side a wiser and stronger person than always thinking I'm "just about" there. But, having never tried it, IDK... I just feel that any "realization" gleaned from the experience would be a lie at some level. Or at least a partial truth, and it is dangerous to take that as the whole truth.

I haven't found that any substance has helped me during meditation. Being sober and meditating is where it's at.
If you consider practicing music a type of working-meditation, then I would say that weed is helpful in this sense. Weed and Working-mediation go hand in hand in many cases, but as for full on lotus position style meditation I haven't found any substances that are in any way helpful.
 
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I can't quite meditate to the degree i want whilst under the influence of a drug. I've tried a few times on LSD, but my mind is far to active and instead of reducing my thoughts to a singularity, there jumping off sporadically in all different directions, causing distraction and reduced focus on my consciousness.

I'm not too familiar with the different types of meditation as you can see from one of my previous posts, but i suppose it would be Kundalini that i've been focusing on.. which doesn't quite 'relax' me per se ;) But release's a surge of energy throughout my chakra's which actually increase's my heart-rate and body temperature.. now having used DMT in the past i can say this was extremely similar in nature to the feeling DMT would give me, which is pretty much what cracked my world open to realize such a strong similarity between meditation and a substance.

Terrance McKenna was asked this question in regards to meditation on its own, his answer was that he would prefer to be on a substance such as DMT or Mushrooms if he was going to engage in meditation, or else it would feel lacking. However he was a huge DMT enthusiast.. so his answer could be seen as bias.

That all aside, i agree 100% with CoffeeDrinker, that being sober and meditating will get you the most out of the experience in my opinion.

ikkyu said:
I don't have much experience with this while sitting, but I have felt a force like this in a similar manner, mostly spontaneously while practicing (sober) mindfulness in a variety of contexts.

It seems like kundalini yoga is the discipline you want to research if you're interested in trying to harness and focus this energy, which in that tradition is conceived of as a coiled serpent of libidinal energy that rests dormant at the base of the spine, and which can be awakened and directed through the chakras into the head.

Here's a decent overview: Kundalini Yogas FAQ

I'm not well-versed in this tradition at all, mind you, but I do know that it's not something to be dabbled with lightly. Your best bet would probably be to find a teacher if you think it's something that you want to pursue further, all the while keeping in mind some words of warning by Carl Jung:
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Sorry for the late reply, but thankyou ikkyu for that link and information.. i have since done some reading up on this method and it does seem like what i've experienced.. i was quite surprised at the warning's associated with this method of meditation, but i can see why at the same time.
 
malakaix said:
That all aside, i agree 100% with CoffeeDrinker, that being sober and meditating will get you the most out of the experience in my opinion.
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Not to mention the most out of the drug experience too. Psychedelics go best with sensory stimulation, of the positive variety at all times.

I really regard meditation and drug use of all varieties as distinctly different phenomena, not really interchangeable, combo-able, or really having anything else to do with each other, other than that they're both altered states of consciousness.

K is incredibly profound, as are deep meditative states. But they're different flavors of profundity.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
Not to mention the most out of the drug experience too. Psychedelics go best with sensory stimulation, of the positive variety at all times.

I really regard meditation and drug use of all varieties as distinctly different phenomena, not really interchangeable, combo-able, or really having anything else to do with each other, other than that they're both altered states of consciousness.

K is incredibly profound, as are deep meditative states. But they're different flavors of profundity.
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Interesting perspective. I feel as if I have reached profound (to me) mystcal states of mind while meditating on certain psychedelics. I have found some psychedelics to be more conducive to meditation than others, at varying doses.

I like your stance on psychedelics being dependant on sensory stimulation and meditation the lack thereof. I have never really thought of it that way. However, in my experience, psychedelic experiences with less sensory input lead to more internal, medatative, and visionary
phenomena.


Opiates are kind of a different story. Good look meditating again CoffeeDrinker!
 
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why not meditate and medicate or vice-versa, but most of the times where I actually sit down, I am sober, and had a rather tough day, I meditated once while rolling, and the inhaling and exhaling, it was really relaxing, and i had music from that new game Lucidity. haven't really tried mediation on lsd, because I'll just end up going to play some music. Know that i think about it, i probably have meditated on lsd, I just didn't realize it. hmmmm.
 
Truly though, relaxation is one of the main practical benefits of meditation. If someone is meditating merely to relax, I see nothing wrong with that.
 
construct said:
Truly though, relaxation is one of the main practical benefits of meditation. If someone is meditating merely to relax, I see nothing wrong with that.
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okay sure; but then why does somebody's relaxation techniques need to be published in the Philosophy and Spirituality section of BL?

a post on relaxation is better fit for Healthy Living or something.
 
swilow said:
Nah, but I don't do zen meditation. The practice I'm half-heartedly doing requires one to assume a posture, and basically stay there, motionless, whether in pain or not. Works for me.
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I just did an 11 day meditation retreat in complete silence and after 3 days of anapana to achieve samadhi we switched to Vipasana scanning the body for sensations and maintained equanimity to all sensations exactly what you just described whether or not gross painful sensations arose or subtle blissful sensations arose we remained in perfect posture watching them arise with complete equanimity and being mindful of anicha (impermanance) and Dukkha (suffering) seeing the pain or pleasure as impersonal phenomenon i.e. anatta (no-self).

I think its very important to do as you said not moving because of pain that furthers the habits of attachment to pleasant sensations and aversion to painful sensations but when you stay motionless and watch the pain arise without craving for pleasant sensations or aversion to painful sensations then your mind develops the habit of equanimity, high indifference or detachment which gives rise to real peace.

But the reason I am bringing this thread back is to get some input on a good meditation cushion or mat, I am looking for something and would like some input ty.
 
Meditation - the ultimate sidekick

Firstly: I created this thread to help those in unwanted psychological states. My hope is that others will post their meditation/mindfulness experiences to convince more to help themselves out. I chose DC because in my experience it's frequented by the most attatched and exuberant drug users- and I'd like people to see this message in a positive light (as it's not hard), making them more succeptible to give it a shot.


Oftentimes I see threads about what to do in withdrawl or when a "fix" is needed. Prevalent is the deppression/anxiety that former drug users may chronically experience. If you really are that desperate you'll do all you can to help yourself- and I'm suggesting meditation.


Before their are any remarks let me say that Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction has been a proven assistant/antidote to recovering addicts and people experiencing crippling depression/anxiety.

For me it feels like i'm living my life how i want and that I can objectively respond with critical thought to anything that comes my way- a sort of "power"- but a loving power, not a stimulant-esque power.

Most noticable is the benzodiazepine-like effect immediately after followed by an involuntary grin and excitement.

just for the record it's your choice to seek and initiate help, I'm just a messenger that's not trying to be bossy/dicky, and im not high=D.
 
sorry yo, but u cant just choose to post something by the people in the forum u want to reach. this aint a DC topic so Ima move it.....thanks for wantin to share tho.
 
I have been studying and practicing meditation for over 8 years, including a ten day silent vipassana retreat. I was also addicted to heroin and other painkillers for 3-4 years. I can say that while meditation can be helpful in dealing with withdrawals it was not NEAR enough for me to want to quit. I thank the miracle of suboxone for that.

No offense here, it just seems like you have never had a serious addiction in your life, so how can you claim this is all it takes to get clean? (if im wrong about that, apologies)
 
Its ok mod, i understand and appreciate the guidance.



Depends what you define as serious. I underwent chemotherapy for lymphoma and thus was constantly getting shot up with IV Opiates every weekend at home on codiene, about 360mg/day. May not seem much but when you're an 11 year old kid that's pretty tough. And I went to school the whole time.

I'm sure many have had much worse addictions than I. For this I'm not sure but firmly subscribe to: drugs aren't/never were the answer to the problems of life. I condone occassional psychedelic introspection and sparse weed smoking, though anything you rely on will hit you that much harder when you realize that it can't be by your side forever.

I'm happy for suboxone/methadone/naloxone. But I also think it would teach a painful but valuable lesson to addicts if they had no crutch. You may argue that this would result in more addicts and it might. But it could also make people never try the shit because they heard it's that much harder to quit.

Maybe more would then try meditation and actually lead naturally productive lives. It's a serious empathogen, only conributes to positive feelings with no come down, just escalation of those feelings.
 
Good thread - at a point of desperation I used meditation to great effect over several months - meditation was a concept I dismissed completely until my back was to the wall - I found it to be extremely useful - sadly of course my lack of discipline meant I gradually practiced less & less as things improved - guess what they started to fuck up again - so I'm slowly getting back to it.

It's a serious empathogen, only conributes to positive feelings with no come down, just escalation of those feelings.
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I found this was my experience also.
 
meditation has been unnattainable for me for the longest time. recently, however, when im in bed soon to sleep, i find myself slipping into states where my mind is truly silent and in the darkness of my eyelids i begin to see for a fraction of a second some image coming quickly into sharp focus.

this ability has only begun to show itself since i parted ways with drugs and really devoted myself to cleansing physically. when i compare it to what i felt when i tried meditating as a drug user, it seems like that former "meditation" was just placebo and not genuine like these very brief glimpses of clarity i get nowadays.

recognizing that everyone is different, however, maybe a true state of clarity can be induced by some people in a fit but imho it's a pretty hard thing to aspire to while fiending.
 
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