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[MEGA] God

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FreedomOfTheMind said:
How about the idea that YOU are God (eternity, the void, whatever u want to call it) We are the universe subjectively experiencing itself. You will die as a human individual organism, but you will not really die. How can you die if you are the universe? You will always be here in some form or another because you are all there is to be. Why are you experiencing everything from the human perspective as of now? How did we end up in this dimension? This is part of the great mystery of life and we will never be able to prove why we exist in the form we do right now,but one thing is for certain is that "I am he who that was and he who shall be"- Tibetan Book of the Dead. It is one thing to read this but it is another thing to ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE IT. It is truly marvelous. Actually it isn't anything, it just IS.
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I love this kind of discussion.

I disagree because 'you' will die. There is nothing physical about it except for the perception modalities on which the concept depends.

The problem is that 'you' or 'we' are not God. The self is just a phenomenon that allows matter to identify with what is being perceived. That can't be God because it has no cause in existence.
 
^ However, each one of us is the primordial energy of the creation of the universe in a more complex form. First there was whatever began our physical universe (at least in this dimension)- just a sea of free electrons, eventually atoms and molecules formed and then stars (giant fusion reactors) which then led to heavy elements (such as Iron) and the formation of planets and then the biosphere began to form with the first unicellular organisms and DNA and through billions of years of evolution- here we are today. We are still the energy of the universe, from a scientific standpoint but obviously with a much different appearance than what it once was.

I think when you say self you are referring to the ego (the false center) which is based upon our perceptions of what others think of us, etc. When I say 'self', I am referring to the silent watcher or pure awareness (consciousness)- this is a simplistic Buddhist definition. I believe this is eternal and although it may take on different forms and is in constant flux, it is the very fabric of the universe itself and makes up EVERYTHING in the universe, alive and not alive. The self is also known as the void (w/ my definition). I dont think anybody actually dies but that we are always here in some form or another-since I believe that we are the universe-, its just that right now we have a perspective of the universe with our ego in place and societal conditioning, etc which makes us view us as separate from the universe but we are actually continuous. Just as apples grow from a tree, we grew out of the universe and somehow we are here.
 
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With the original assumption in mind...

The only reply that makes sense to me is that God is actually not as nice as people make Him out to be...

All you need to do is read the bible (especially the old testament) to see that God is indeed a childish, arrogant prick.
 
Why do we use the same appendage for waste excretion and copulation? What were you thinking?
 
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I don't believe god(s) exist(s). If it/they are/is real, then I would say the world is such a shitty place because god(s) are/is evil or powerless to make things better. I can see no other reasons why a god with the power to make a better world would create a world full of death and pain. The cruel things we do to one another could be explained by free will, but that still means that god made us or allowed us to evolve in a way that resulted in an ape with the intelligence to create technological marvels and the violence to use them to kill, maim, and rape the planet. It/they also created a system of life where lifeforms capable of feeling excruciating pain must kill each other in violent, painful ways just to survive. It is truly sadistic, if you ask me. Exactly what I would expect from a psychotic devil, god(s) with limited power, or a godless uni/multi verse.

I'd love to hear from believers in a kind, merciful god(s) just where that kindness and mercy is at. I sure don't see much of it in this world. I'd like christians and others who believe in hell to explain how their god(s) is/are showing mercy when they put us in this world of pain only to cast us into hell when we die. If you believe in that kind of god, don't tell me it is merciful or kind. Tell me your god is cruel and vengeful, because that is the only way to describe such actions.

Another possibility is that we are supposed to be learning from the suffering, that it is some kind of growing experience. I don't buy that. I just don't see the point. Exactly how would it benefit us or make us better? It still seems pointless and cruel, unless we were given the choice to live this life before we were born.

As I've said, I don't think there is a god. Maybe it is better that way, otherwise I'd believe in a monster who wants us to suffer in this life, and in the next if it doesn't just crush us out of existence at the end of this one.
 
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Tryptamine*Dreamer said:
I'd love to hear from believers in a kind, merciful god(s) just where that kindness and mercy is at.
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Look inside yourself. The mercy and kindness given by the divine creative force that built this universe is there at the core. But it's buried deep beneath layers upon layers of defense mechanisms, put there by your desire to cling to this incarnation of yours tighter and longer. Not just you, but all of us.
 
^^ For there to be happiness there must be pain and suffering!!!!! How can you have one without the other? It is all about the balance. I believe we are all part of "god" and that we are all gods in our own right in the sense that we can control the way we think (to an extent) with metaprogramming and take control of our minds. But think about it. What is happiness not in relation to sadness? You need both for them to even exist! This is part of the universal balance, the yin and yang. But this doesnt mean there is only duality, it is all part of the same. God is just in a constant state of playing hide and seek.
 
I think Epicurus said it best:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

If indeed God does exist and created us, it's hard to answer the question of why we live in such a hostile environment, with so much competition and disease and suffering. The only answer, in my mind, is that he either doesn't mind us suffering, or that he doesn't exist. I believe wholeheartedly in the latter.
 
^How could there be happiness without suffering? How would you know what happiness even is without having suffered? It is all part of the balance. It is up to you what role you want to play in the balance though and there is some free-will and chance concerning how happy you will be. But think about it, everything is relative to each other and something like happiness cannot exist without suffering.
 
FreedomOfTheMind, I don't think your theodicy and mine are incompatible. Yours essentially says that the key to understanding pain and misfortune is that they're not problems. But I wasn't talking about suffering, I was talking about compassion, openness, and acceptance on one hand, versus being wary and self-protective on the other. The former comes from an acceptance of existence, and all its joys and pains alike, for what it is. The latter comes from the misguided goal of trying to beat the system, and get only joy and persistence without pain or degredation.
 
Agreed MDAO- I was referring to the poster below you (Solitude within), who said that there is no God because there is suffering and hardship on this planet and I was saying in order to have good times, you need the bad times (since everything exists in relation to something else which is why we are all connected) I may be using the ^ notation wrong lol
 
Survival0200 said:
... why god doesn't supply us with infinite supply of our favorite drug if we would want so?

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But he did! Magic mushrooms, methamp., opium, the cacao plant, and peyote. And, of course, marijuana.
 
All i have to say is.

If there is a god, he's not how Christianity defines him. What 'merciful, loving god' would send you to be tortured for eternity? Is it he loves you SO MUCH that he wants you to suffer? pfft.
 
moonyham, you can thank Dante and Milton for much of that definition. :\

I agree -- I fail to see how an all-loving God can be judgemental or unforgiving. It's what I always said about attending church -- why would God judge you for not worshipping, if he already understood your motives for refraining? Hell, I can see God being perfectly forgiving toward people who don't believe in him and/or make fun of religion, personally.

It's a shame that it more or less takes an atheist to make or appreciate religion-related humor. As a book I read about the making of the Simpsons said, most of America's prominent comedy writers are Jewish atheists and Irish Catholic atheists. The Simpsons' writers are almost homogenously atheist, and making an audience that ISN'T primarily atheist laugh out loud but not get offended has always been a major challenge for them.

My point in saying this is, God and all the holy / enlightened ones who exemplify him strike me as people who'd take any jabs at them very much in stride. There's no risk in offending God, except by being willfully unloving in your actions toward another sentient being.

Refraining from sacrilege, just like mandatory worship attendance, is man's law, not God's law. Who you REALLY risk offending is those people who've invested their whole lives in religion, and don't like seeing their positions of power and privilege called into question.
 
Eve ate the apple.
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Just want to say that it wasnt a apple but a forbidden fruit... wrong translation.

Anyway, life is life and we all have to learn, improve ourself and get some wisdom... I guest we wouldnt appreciate life if it was perfect
 
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