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[MEGA]Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences Part 5 (2012-2013)

Prelude, don't you mean you'll pull the sativas later?

Don't worry I don't have your addy saved anymore, but I would keep that sort of sensitive info private. Mum's the word, hey.
 
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marie420 said:
Some people have noses like a bloodhound while other can't tell Pino Noir from grape juice. But there is a more scientific way to sniff out exactly what chemicals are in your herb. Using the internet and a vaporizer with very accurate temperature control, any breeder can accurately tell what terpenoids are present. Each terpenoid has a specific vaporization temperature. Say a grower has a strain which smells like "citrus," but no specific one like pineapple, lemon or orange. By slowly increasing temperature on the vaporizer and tasting or measuring how much smoke comes off, you'll be able to tell approximately how much of each smell your plant has.

Want to open the true potential of your marijuana's vast aromas? Learn here how to breed strains that smell as good as they medicate.
Click to expand...

great 50th post! I've been seen more and more on terpenoid profiles on the grow forums but never knew how they were generated~
 
Artificial Emotion said:
Definitely don't flush as it isnt hydro. It's a big no-no with organic nutrients. A lot of people bring hydro concepts over to organic soil gardening when its not right.
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What do you reckon would be best for the week or so before harvest if someone was using a bloom formula in soil or potting mix? I have always switched to plain water but not heaps- just as much as it needs then let it dry out over the last couple of days. I usually would use biocanna but also have this cannadian xpress bloom for soil formula that I've used a few seasons. I know the biocanna is organic but the other one has some synthetic ingredients (It works but I'm a bit iffy about their lack of ingredient info). The soil/mix should be holding enough nutrients by that stage right? I could see how excess water could leach it out though.
 
Honestly you just carry on as normal towards the end with organic nutrients. If you absolutely must, you can drop the dose in the last few days but it's not necessary. Think tomatoes - when grown organically people don't flush but you can still get prize winning fruit this way. Hydroponics is a different story.

But even with hydro I wouldn't switch straight to pure tap water as convention dictates but drop the dosage gradually at the end.

In your case I would definitely drop the Canadian XPress but if not, simply dropping the dose might help.

Nutrients in the soil should mostly actually be used up by the end. I start switching from relying on nutrients reserves in the soil to liquid feeds two weeks after the last pot up, which is 2 weeks into 12/12. You don't pot up during the flowering period because root growth virtually grinds to a halt 2 weeks after the beginning of 12/12.
 
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Really? See I'm surprised you don't flush soil, as thats just what I was taught, by both my uncle, my friend who owns his gardening store and a dispensary, most people I know flush one week before harvest. I was always told because of the build up salts from the excess nutrient (though I put less nutrient than called always, prob still some excess right?)
Anyways, I did notice that it leaves the marijuana very bland in taste, and without too much smell.

So...No more flushing, okay :)

Ill get the name of my nutrients later this evening, and hopefully along with some more pictures, who knows if I'll have the time,
Anyways, Im off to work, take it easy guys, hope everything is going well.
 
Damn I never would have thought to not flush organics. Thanks man :)

Got a couple of Skunk seeds that just sprouted. I'll be taking them indoors when my room is setup, but is outdoor ok for the time being with the light cycle and all?
 
Prelude there are so many myths in Canna growing you would be shocked.

Check this post by the famous OT1 (not just some dude on the net). It explains it in more detail:

This is a big question scarfaceshady, you asked me to comment and for accurate/correct information on chemical growing, its not really my interest, I can’t answer it fully, it would take a book!

A small stab, it has to be a story of how we got to where we are today from the early days of cannabis cultivation to understand some of the myths and practises today.

Plants fed up to the day they are cut, may have a large excess of unmetabolised nutrients in them, it depends on how they are fed, its very very easy to over feed with pure chemical salt fertilisers but was very hard to do so with organic fertilisers.

Also its easy to feed out of balance main element fertilisers with chemical salt fertilisers. Most organic fertilisers are well balanced not causing a buildup or excess of any one element way above all others. The thing you really do not want an excess of is phosphorus!

In the early days of cannabis growing indoors it was found that with a very high phosphorus level large colas were produced, the problem was phosphorus excess made the bud hard to burn, gave a metallic taste, it is also very carcinogenic.

It was found that even if no feed was given, just water for a couple of weeks before harvest was due, the bud burnt better but still had the metallic twang. This was called flushing, I say called, its not quite true, starving is nearer to the truth, you need all the elements for a plant to metabolise properly, the early pioneers like Nesta started using a mix of citric/ascorbic acid and molasses, calling it a flushing solution, named nesta juice. This in fact was a weak organic based feed that is high in potassium, the mix gave enough n and k so the plant did not starve and strip mobile elements and helped to metabolise a lot of the excess residual phosphorus. This gave much better burning and sweeter tasting bud. As residual potassium in dried bud also aids burning, much in the same way as the added potassium nitrate aids the burning of tobacco in tailor made ciggies.

Thing is plain water flushing was found to reduce yield by quite a %, things like nesta juice made the yield better. Remember the grow and bloom formulations were and still are about getting high yield, today we don’t still have the 40% P and single figure n and k figures, think about this and the likely P levels when you add in the phosphoric acid used as ph down, today fertilisers are still mostly designed for maximum yield for commercial purposes ie force feeding and getting as much back as you can, its a compromise.

So to deal with max yield a new trick was made up to try and cover the phosphorus problem, pk13:14 was introduced, this helps burn buds containing a phosphorus excess more efficiently. While it masks the problem and acridity, the smoke is even more carcinogenic.

The old organic fertilisers such as BioBizz grow and bloom do not make any excesses when used the old way, ie feeding what the plant can use naturally at all stages of development, re:- raising levels when flowering is full on then reducing at the end of flowering so you just meet the plants needs, its all pretty much natural even though supplying a pot restricted root mass, no force feeding. But even BioBizz have started to sell out to the yield merchants now, while the grow and bloom will not cause a big excess of any one element because of the balance of the fertilisers no matter how they are used, the introduction of cation exchange products used as BioBizz suggest can make huge excesses of nutrients in the plant tissue making it necessary to stop feeding and just use water at the end of flowering. These products go against natural plant growth when used the way they suggest, ie making organic fertilisers act like chemical salt fertilisers, I've smoked some bud grown like this, it was appalling, as bad as over fertilised europonic hydro bud
 
^Thats a good reason to get more info about whats in the nutrients right there. Pretty sure the Xpress doesnt have huge levels of phosphorus and it definitely has molasses the only thing is it doesnt say what else is in there. I guess if it has things like plant growth regulators in it flushing isnt going to change that. The guy in the hydro store sold it to me as "only organic ingredients" but on further research it doesnt seem correct. I think I will stick with Biocanna next time.
 
That's why I don't use their products. Whilst they work they as a company are very evasive about ingredients. We know they probably don't have some proprietary recipe or ingredient they are trying to protect, so it indicates to me they may be trying to hide something. Whilst it cannot be proven there is a reasonable likelihood this is the case. There is no good reason all ingredients should not be explicitly staed.
 
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Ice berry is the plant with Pink pistils :) , unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a picture of them until the darker pinks started to fade to a white/pink .
My smaller Ice berry doesnt look TOO attractive, as you might see in these pictures, but the larger one is looking very nice.

Ah, well, I dont know much about plants, what they need, what they take, what they are using, and what they aren't . I guess that's probably the way of it with alot of people who are just starting to grow in California, which is probably why most people recommend flushing, because most people are using Chemical nutes. Honestly, I couldn't tell you what I used up until a few months ago.

So what about when I was using fox farms? was flushing the correct option?
Now Im using Botanicare Pureblend
And I DID notice that flushing does take out some of the yeild, (last year I saw this anways)
Not too significant, but it was noticed.

So, what should I be doing exactly , I have Botanicare, Pureblend, 1-4-5. (Soil formula, I also got sold Hydro formula, and was told to switch every other week, but haven't done so, as Im not sure if I should use Hydro in regular pots and outdoor growing)
If I feed once a week, up until the last 2 weeks right? So no flushing, just regular water at that point?


NSFW:


Ice berry

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Green Crack

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[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/20120912174216181.jpg/]
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Ice berry / Flowered 2 weeks before all other plants for some reason (the smaller of the two Ice berry)

Another green crack.

Plant is gorgeous, smell is amazing, looking great to me.

-edit-
Some of these pictures are showing up weird, I can click show then click the link though, if anyone has problems, let me know.
Thanks again for all the info and support, appreciate it everyone :)

Also, whats up with all of these green crack plants, I mean, I've never grown sativa before,
but these buds look like they are going to be ridiculously 'airy' , they arent thick/compact at all. Makes me sad . So much time put into these plants for like....idk...two sittings worth of smoke, haha
 
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They should fill out a bit with time. They will just need longer than the others to finish.

Also with the flushing thing I think I was told about it by a hydro grower he was just passing on what worked for him. I think at the time he gave me some synthetic nutes that he had left over so the advice was probably right for that situation. I dont do it if I'm using solid organic material but thought that it would carry over for any liquid nutes. It makes sense though no need to cut them out if the plants just taking what it needs.
 
I dont know what I was thinking when I said pull the sativas early.
I think I meant that I would pull them early, since they are more prone to disease/bud rot right?
And Usually I start to lose ALOT of my bud around the beginning of October to bud rot (not sure if Ive seen any disease)
I just figured , since those were the highest concentration of THC (plants that I currently have), I was thinking I'd rather pull them before I lose them.

But, I plan to just keep everything out there until I see about 15-25% amber trich with 50cloud/25 clear , something around that, does that sound workable?
I just tend to like amber since it REALLY puts me to sleep, just sucks trying to keep my plants growing that long, as their health really starts to decline at that point (for me anyways)

I use liquid nutes, for the potted plants I have outdoors, other than that, Ive just been using kelp/bonemeal for my plants in the ground (used liquid nute on them twice)

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And no, that wasnt the one with pink pistils, i think I might have a blurry photo in my phone , Ill try to post it next time

Also, dont think this pic showed up
Its the Iceberry that is shorter, flowered very early,
Dont know if thats bad or good. Looks weird.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/20120912174216181.jpg/
 
I would take it as it comes rather than following any sort of timetable. Cut off any first bits of mold to isolate the infection but soon after chop them down to harvest before you've left it too late. Particularly with late finishes the aim is to go as far as you can without succumbing too much to rot. With early finishers, that is, strains bred to finish in good time in the northern hemisphere, you harvest according to pistil and trichome appearance.

But you're right, the indoor sativas will have to be pulled earlier than when they would naturally ripen due to the fact that they potentially won't be suited to the climate.
 
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Well, with bud rot, do I just pick off the pieces that were just dry (cause all of the pieces that were there I pulled off until there was still green soft plant tissue. )
Should I go back and cut off the top part of the bud?

I agree , me keeping my plants out to the point of bud rot is stupid, I guess Im just lazy, and never cared to check my plants with my handheld magnifier much, Im still pretty bad at when to pick the trichomes, I have a very shaky hand.
What Ive seen lately on the pineapple train wreck makes me think maybe I should be pulling it, but its still so early into the season, I think Im not seeing "all" of the trichoms, or enough anyways. Seems to be 20-30clear, 70% cloudy. No amber.

All of my others look like 50/50 or 40/60 clear / cloudy

What about plants that dont have shit loads of trichomes? Like my ice berry, they aren't as prevalant as my other plants and its somewhat hard to see anything with out getting deep into the bud on the plant, maybe Im just supposed to do that.
Also, how do I judge the pistils for pulling? Didnt know you do that too.
Like, On my iceberry, the shorter one of the plant I posted last night,
Its pistils are darkend and dead to the point that normally I would pull such a plant, but its no where near ready. :/ I would equate some of that to dead roots maybe ? Had a toad keep burrowing in the dirt next to the stem of the plant, I didnt notice until he had made about ...5 holes? lol I keep trying to fill them in to no avail, I moved the toad (refuse to kill it), but he came back , now he's under my larger plant, I like him because he eats bugs, but man, all these holes are leaving lots of air to get to my roots.

What causes bud rot? Is there a way to prevent it?
Anything I can do to keep the sativas safe while they flower? Even though they already look kind of poor, hah, bugs dont like the leaves on these plants, but I guess it doesnt stop the from trying a single leaf...in 30 different areas, haha.

I shouldn't have to stake my pineapple trainwreck should I?
It's leaning pretty bad but the weather hasn't been to bad lately...
I guess the time to do it would be before the weather gets bad though eh.lol

I think I might be getting sick, I smoked some bud I had out in the garage that looked nice, I'm beginning to think I left it out there for a reason, I have a sore throat and beggining to feel sick to my stomach, anyone had this happen before? I've only had it happen when I smoke some pretty harsh/poor bud that screws up my lungs. (sorry off topic)
 
I'm typing on my phone so have to be brief.

Just cut off plant tissue that appears 'abnormal' as a result of infection.

If there are few trichs it could just be a bad pheno. Or early, its hard for me to say because it could be a number of things.

Pistils should be orange or brown and mostly shrivelled up, past the point where they can be pollinated.

With the plant that's got brown and shrivelled but not ready why do you say its not ready? It's hard for me to comment as I feel like I would be speculating if I said more.

Botrytis fungi cause grey mold. The humidity and moisture facilitates it. Outdoors the only prevention is good genetics, growing under cover (e.g. a greenhouse or polytunnel) to keep off rain from the flowers and chopping early. Indoors a dehumidifier and heating during lights off works, particularly if done late in flower.

Try spraying neem on foliage but not on buds. The smell repels insects.

Yes you should stake your plant if bud weight is pulling the flowers down.
 
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IME, picking a few days-weeks after the big bud swell is better than pretending the color of the glands will affect the high more than your choice of genetics (ie Sat vs Ind). Also, picking each part of the plant as it ripens gives better results than the all-at-once approach, even moreso for Sat biased genetics.

X2 on not spraying Neem on your buds. Did this recently and the smoke is torturously bad. Gonna try and bubble hash her and see if that helps.
 
Clobbersaurus said:
Also, picking each part of the plant as it ripens gives better results than the all-at-once approach, even moreso for Sat biased genetics.
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I've tried this a couple of times. Do you think the stress of pruning has some effect on whats left on the plant? One time when I did this the last bits left on the plant were super potent and super stinky compared to the first harvest another time though they were no better possibly a little bit worse. I suppose timing is also important.
 
Well, I figured the one that has the browned pistils just flowered a week or two early, and it's VERY airy. Might just be the plant though, as Ive never heard of , or grown Ice Berry before , Cant even find info on it, so, my guess is someone had another strain, and just named it whatever, no big deal though, if it turns out bad, it will be butter or hash.

I'll be keeping a close eye on my plants.
I also didnt know you were supposed to wait that long for the pistils before pulling,
So glad Im learning so much, lol,
thanks everyone :)

And I would guess that pruning at different times might actually benefit the buds, as the plant might be able to up production into the buds it still has left, rather than ALL , but thats just speculation, I could be far off on that one. I might try it out this harvest, see if it makes a difference.

Also, how do I know if Ive sprayed neem oil on the buds, what does it smell/taste like? Is it harsh? Wondering if Ive had it before, or if its comparable to anything, so I can know once I harvest if its worth smoking or just using for other products.
 
Harvesting buds at different times is desirable as they mature at differing rates. Top main colas are usually first.

I would smell the neem before you spray it on, that is the best way.

You can avoid accidentally getting neem oil on your buds by securing the colas in bags tied shut while you spay. Brush it on to leaves if you have to, to avoid spray coming into contact with the flowers.
 
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