That's true. In any case, the Buddha is ultimately there to be killed (chuckling)...I agree with you actually, for the most part - I was just pointing out the obvious, that stimulants aren't generally associated with spiritual development (probably the opposite in most people's minds), not that that matters at all of course. And I think every experience ever experienced is valid, if it is perceived as real by the observer/participant (hell, i expect most people here would think i was a nut if I told them half of what I had to say about dissociatives...)
btw we're conveniently overlooking the fact that buddhism prohibited intoxicants (though i don't think buddha was familiar with psychedelics - have always wondered what he would have made of acid or mdma), but i think it's a mistake to subscribe to any one spiritual doctrine anyway - finding wisdom in the words of buddha doesn't make one a buddhist...
I'm off to bed, thanks for the discussion

Peace...
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