Gee, thanks.
It almost sounds like we could get along.
Linking serotonin to ADH is pretty simple, and linking ADH and the process of urine production is pretty automatic.
In the very least, it can be concluded that serotonin release inhibits urine production in the kidneys and perhaps the release from the bladder.
The level of inhibition is really the concern, and in normal healthy people the inhibition is negligible.
When diarrhea is present, which involves an increase in serotonin activity, urine production is decreased.
The odd thing about MDMA is that it increases metabolism....heart-rate, cortisol, body temperature.
So urine production should go up, based on metabolic processes.
But it goes down, because the brain decides to limit urine output.
Perhaps increasing the level of water to electrolytes in the bloodstream is one way for the brain to defend itself against rising serotonin.
Dilution...
Former MDMA users have been shown to process water through their brains differently.
And I would certainly suspect this of myself.
Only now, after more than a year recovery, do i find myself salivating and urinating like I used to.
Even exercising, which I have done all year, revealed a difference in water processing.
Typically working out causes the muscles to swell with water afterwards, esp. after consecutive days.
But this effect seemed to disappear this year.
Until about two months ago.
I finally feel the 'pump' effect again.
But not everyday.
And I can honestly say that on days when this happens, I can feel the water moving through my intestines much more quickly.
It just seems to permeate better.
My gut, my muscles, and my brain.
It is hard to describe.
Serotonin Syndrome and Hyponatremia do not have to occur together.
If hyponatremia does occur during SS, it is considered a sign of severe SS.
Fevers above 101 are also considered a sign of severity.
This is why ANY fever while on MDMA, or for several days afterwards, should be treated aggressively.
My guess would be that you experienced a mild SS, without fever or hyponatremia.
The onset of SS involves more than 'sick' feelings...
It is normally a transition into hypertension and tachycardia without warning.
Did you have chest pain and racing heart?
Intestinal cramps?
If you cannot answer yes to these questions, then you did not have a serious SS episode.
I should mention, as I have before, that SS and 'rolling' both exist on the same spectrum.
Many of the symptoms of acute SS are mirrored by less severe subjective effects felt during normal MDMA experiences.
With this in mind, you probably did have some mild tachycardia, diaphoresis, and some ADH release.
But ADH release and SIADH are a matter of degree, with hyponatremia occurring only with severe ADH release.
And hyponatremia during SS is an even more severe degree of malfunction.
The next step is cerebral edema, ischemia, stroke, infarct...
Preloading with 5-HTP is a big NO NO.
The presence of tryptophan along the GI is the culprit.
Even if several days have passed since taking the supplement, residual tryptophan could be hanging around waiting to be absorbed.
If this happens, even in the lower GI, while MDMA is consumed - you now have two overlapping sources of serotonin increase!
This is a major risk factor for SS, but it appears you got through it unscathed.
For the record, I consider more experienced rollers at an increased risk of SS.
As the serotonin network in the brain is re-wired, its ability to handle increases in serotonin activity is damaged.
Those who take higher or repeated doses are much more likely to report extreme reactions.
For myself, a moderate user, it took 100 of DPH to really cause Serotonin Syndrome.
It was two days after my first mini-binge that I took the benedryl.
I wish to God I hadn't.
I have no doubt that without the secondary factor, BL would have never met First Bad Comedown.
Not only does DPH inhibit the reuptake of serotonin in higher doses, but it inhibits the CYP2D6 liver enzyme.
This probably increases brain exposure to toxic metabolites of MDMA!
All drugs that influence CYP, including alcohol, should be treated with the utmost caution - even two days after rolling.
I have read several case reports of acute and lethal MDMA reactions that involved alcohol, normally more than just a drink or two.
5-HTP should also be avoided to an extent.
Post loading is not as risky a pre-loading, in my opinion.
But healthy diet with high quality proteins should more than suffice.
If tryptophan is taken, it should be in non hydroxy form.
Take plain tryptophan, not 5-HTP, to slow the increase in serotonin.
And for those with anxiety following a roll, I recommend very SMALL doses - which will require opening a capsule and emptying most of the contents.
More can always be taken, but not less.
xtcnation - 700mg per night is more than a lot.
Let me clarify what I know about risk.
In the limited number of clinical studies in which humans are given MDMA, the vast majority of subjects are only allowed 75-150mg.
Typically at least 100mg is required for the full effect, which is prolactin release.
This is in healthy users.
More experienced users may be given higher doses, but I have NEVER seen a researcher give a human more than about 400mg.
And even this is typically not done - most subjects given higher doses are kept under 300.
Such studies are considered controversial by the scientific community because MDMA is a confirmed and undeniable neurotoxin.
It is unethical for scientists who understand the reality of this to administer the drug to human beings at all, much less in higher doses.
Above half a gram, or 500mg, most people will be taking over 5mg/kg of body weight.
Smaller individuals would be closer to 8mg/kg.
Based on animal research, 1-2mg/kg is the recommended 'safe' dose.
And anything over 5 is considered likely to produce long-lasting changes.
Above 8mg/kg and there is little doubt.
There is reason to believe that ANY dose produces some change and could therefore be labeled 'toxic'.
The difference is when these changes are detectable to researchers...
How you got to the point of doing 700-800mg is a fine example of why MDMA should not be legalized.
Such a dose should have been intervened on by any number of your 'friends'.
Yet somehow you managed to escalate it even further.
If you are taking pure 'molly' and weighing your doses, then perhaps you really did take that much.
If they were tabs, as mine were, then you may have taken less.
By plain weight, I took up to 700mg per night, with most nights stopping at 500.
Yet I am aware that each tab is not 100 percent MDMA.
Mine were tested pure, but there are still non-adulterant components that make up more than half the tab.
So in reality, I was probably getting around 100mg of actual mdma per tab, for a total of 250-350mg per night.
Knowing that this is statistically very likely really makes me worry about people that take pure doses of higher quantity.
If I am correct about what it took for me to develop SS, then the astronomical doses used by others are surely making major and permanent alterations in brain function.
It is well known that after the initial serotonin release, very little additional serotonin remains.
There is value to taking a higher initial dose, but after about two hours additional doses produce less and less serotonin.
The typical dosing regimen recommended by conservative experienced users is to take between 100-200mg and wait.
Before you start coming down, an additional 50-100mg.
And no more.
Every time I took a second dose it was worth it.
But the very few times I took another half after that, I was always left feeling cracked out.
It was a very shitty, wirey, and non-euphoric feeling.
But even this paled in comparison to the feeling of taking another tab the next day!
Somehow dosing on sequential days seemed to be the absolute WORST choice I could have made.
And many others agree.
Each additional dose of MDMA depletes serotonin to toxic low levels.
It is when serotonin is at its lowest, that the metabolites of MDMA and dopamine can enter the SERT and receptor and cause peroxide radicals to form.
There are some researchers that believe this literally cleaves the axons from the nerve body.
Others simply note that during recovery, some axons are redistributed to lower brain regions.
But this process takes TIME.
In primates and humans, this re-wiring is know to take YEARS.
And there are plenty of anecdotes around BL in which people claim to take more than a few months to begin feeling the consequences of their abuse.
I highly recommend that you take a LONG break from MDMA and find out what happens to you.
If you are a heavy cannabis user, this places you at a greater risk for complications.
Chronic smoking alters the function of the PFC, the brain's highest cognitive center and home to the most fragile and vulnerable serotonin axons.
It is cannabis use that is linked with severe psychosis in MDMA users.
But cognitive changes are linked to extent of MDMA use.
And many of the detectable cognitive changes do not become apparent until almost a YEAR of abstinence.
Delayed verbal recall is the greatest example of this, but 'impulse control' or 'self-regulation' deficits are apparent within months.
The heavier the use, the longer it can take for changes to show up.
It is true that some people can take more than others.
And stories of dick-sizing etards on BL might convince some users that half a gram really isn't that harmful.
But the weight of scientific evidence suggests that anything over 200-300mg in a human is causing long-lasting or permanent changes in axonal density.
And even smaller doses, if repeated, are causing this as well.
I'm glad you sound like you are learning your lesson.
Yes, you probably had water in your bloodstream above normal levels.
You probably also experienced mild hyponatremia from SIADH.
It is the only good explanation for the urination problems.
But real hyponatremia normally involves a migraine from pressure on the brain.
You didn't describe this and you aren't describing neurological symptoms right now.
So you avoided the real damage that hyponatremia can cause.
If you did experience it, it didn't hurt you.
Sipping water was smarter than chugging it.
At least your basic awareness of water intoxication was at work.
But you should have also lowered core body temperature.
This is even more important and more basic.
Every MDMA user should be aware of how effective this method is.
While removing clothes and pouring cold water on yourself can be unpleasant or even shocking, it produces a rapid improvement in symptoms.
And it is confirmed to lessen the detectable changes caused by neurotoxicity.
One BLer told me this saved his life.
If you are able to sleep and eat food, you are fortunate.
Cases like mine typically involve MAJOR changes in diet and complete insomnia.
For many weeks.
Consider yourself lucky and don't roll for a very long time.
I recommend a one year break.
And if you require more than 200mg to roll, you need at least another year.
If not longer.
