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MDMA shortage contributing to city violence?

^ Getting slightly off-topic here but I'm just a little worried about ID scanning and the potential for abuse. Sure it can help pinpoint trouble makers & when combined with high definition security cameras could really help police to track offenders, but the other side of the coin is the invasion of privacy. Do you really want all of your personal info (including address, photo and signature) to be recorded when entering a club? How secure is this data and who has access to it? They are already in place in some clubs in Brisbane yeh?

Maybe I'm just being paranoid *tightens tinfoil hat*?
 
belarki said:
^ Getting slightly off-topic here but I'm just a little worried about ID scanning and the potential for abuse. Sure it can help pinpoint trouble makers & when combined with high definition security cameras could really help police to track offenders, but the other side of the coin is the invasion of privacy. Do you really want all of your personal info (including address, photo and signature) to be recorded when entering a club? How secure is this data and who has access to it? They are already in place in some clubs in Brisbane yeh?

Maybe I'm just being paranoid *tightens tinfoil hat*?
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dont think you're being para at all mate. not sure about brisbane, but they definitely have it in melbourne. not all clubs, but mainly trouble spots. I also do not like the idea of them scanning all the id's, no idea who has access to it but i am guessing anyone who wants to and works for the club could, i doubt anyone really cares about protecting ppl's privacy i mean these are nightclubs after all.....
anyone know of a club actually using any sort of info in a dodgey way? i imagine it happens, just haven't heard of anything....
 
Global Tyranny Happening Now !

Its not paranoia. There are very bad plans currently being carried out all across the globe.

This world is going to be George Orwells 1984 (MORE SO) within 5 years i think.. a very nazi germnay type world.


And all these things are designed to de-huminize us.. get us more used to more and more control. . . Of course, all in the name of the children or protecting us!

Hitler did the same thing..

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation." - Hitler, mein kampf


THIS IS OUR GOVERNMENTS AND GOVERNMENTS ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE'S PLAN.... They are not just trying internet censorship here in aus. ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE they are trying to implement it. And of course... for "child porn" reasons!

Ha!

This is getting more and more sickening by the day. We HAVE NO FUTURE unless we stand up against the tyranny that has taken over this planet!! We are not exempt! This country is decaying rapidly, its not about labour or liberal. They are NOT at the top of the power structure. They are simply puppets...

Start googling before it is to late. (and you can only google what google (CIA) wants..)
 
In my experience nothing has changed and I definitely wouldn't link it to the availability of any drugs. When I first started going out in 2003 lots of people carried knives, there were lots of fights, lots of stabbings - and lots of MDMA. If anything I think there's less violence now. The real reason I think a lot of people think it's increased is because they've just got into the nightlife scene in the last few years, so they're really experiencing it for the first time. But if you'd been going out 10 years ago, it was exactly the same. Plus the media has made a big deal about it so is jumping on every single case now and publicizing it.

And I don't know, maybe it's different because I'm female, but I've worked in bars for years and I've never seen much violence. I used to walk home along King St every night in the early hours of the morning and never saw any drama once. Of course I know it's around, I just doubt it's really increasing.
 
True ^ sorry to side track the thread with id scanners.. Sorry to say but your personal information isnt personal any more. If you think it is... Well... Whats the difference between being filmed at a club and showing your ID. I was once paranoid about such technolgy for its abuse. But im starting to think its use would be too great.

Violence is still a problem but not something to stop you going out. But for the wankers who go out to cause trouble, they get no sympathy from me.
 
@ Sykik

I do like your idea about club owners banding together and creating some sort of black list and effectively banning trouble makers from the clubbing district.

However, thats very much impractical and impossible to implement.

Again, if only the world were so perfect :(

Better to actually lock up (at the very least) repeat offenders because you can be damn sure they're the ones responsible for most of the mishaps.

Cant hurt the public if they're no longer a part of the public ;)

As it stands violent acts do not receive anywhere near appropriate punishment which allows our for offenders to head out and do the same shit next week, and get away with it again.

Dare I quote this?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...-death-is-jailed/story-e6frf7kf-1225912923073

Parole in 4 years. Oh now THAT is fucking justice.. 8)
 
puckboy said:
Sadly the current approach is tough love, lock em up - that'll teach em a lesson :\;)
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L3inad said:
Ahh but if only that were true :(

Sadly the violent types you see out on the streets causing trouble for people on any given saturday night are exactly the same people that were on the news for starting shit the week before.
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Yeah, that was the point I obviously poorly was trying to make hah. Was sarcasm when I said 'lock em up - that'll teach em a lesson' because people with physical assault convictions are often repeat offenders, and serious offenders ending up doing prison time can often keep fucking up and returning to prison over and over.
 
^ ahh. Good to see were on the same page then :D

Yeah, prison is hardly a perfect solution to fixing broken individuals (ie. our repeat offenders). But hey, what else can you do?

@Arzon.

Amen to that buddy
 
When did the valley start having glassings and cab rank fights? When did they need to "crackdown" and give everyone a 3am curfew? When the pissheads started coming to the valley.
 
The last couple of years the valley has turned into a hole I don't like to frequent anymore.
Every change in the valley has been to its demise. These ultra trendy clubs that don't let you in unless you all shop at the same place and spend more time in front of a mirror than a reflection. It used to be about dressing comfortably so you could dance all night.

Even West End the last refuge for normal folk is starting to be inundated with piss heads.

We are definitely getting more violent as a culture but that is a trend that I think happens more slowly.

From what I have witnessed I believe there is a direct relationship between the lack of MDMA and an increase in drunken violence. Anyone who has been going into the valley over the last 10 years would agree!!
 
Well piss heads don't like MDMA clubs, they don't feel like there part of it, and fuck off.

There is definitely a local correlation. Let's say the MDMA raver part of the city won't be full of violent people, they will just be somewhere else. I think the violence has just moved into MDMA territory because there is now a gap, and piss heads tend to fill all the gaps.

There is however an underlying social problem that feeds the violence. I for one believe it one cause of this is the lack of a common enemy. We have not had a huge big problem or enemy in 50-60 years. The last being ww2. These common problems bring people together and see the bigger problems then just a dude looking at you wrongly, so these little problems are manly ignored. I'm not saying there wasn't violence back then, but people respected the violence code. They'd take it outside and it would be a one on one until one guy hit the deck, then it was settled, and both sides friends would then pull them apart.

Now a days these people that go out to get pissed are BORED. So hitting them to the ground isnt enough. So they do whatever they can to fill the void that maybe a common thread would delivery. I'm not saying we need a war, that would be the most terrible thing that could happen. However we do need something to teach the people that there are bigger issues around us then someone bumping you in a club, or accidently getting served before you at the bar.

These people need perspective. Too bad there all fucking uneducated drunks with no perception of the real damage they are causing. Also the alcohol doesn't help their cause either!

MDMA created safe havens from this violence, now its gone, our natural fuck head repellent is gone, so we have to live them.
 
*For the Brisbane themed part of the conversation*
People who used to only frequent the city now come to the Valley as it's the 'entertainment precinct' and a 'night club' atmosphere is lacking in the city. From my memory the old clubs at Eagle St Pier have closed/changed and the young folk who used to try and get into there now go to the Valley.....so you could argue that the attitude well know for the city venues in years gone by have now moved into the Valley area, and no matter what you hope for these people still 'get their back up' seeing the diverse people who frequent the Valley area (GLBTs, creative types as examples)

I wouldn't say it is the lack of a drug out there causing the increase in violence as people with chips on their shoulders still have them (and they are the main ones who will be starting the fights). You can make an argument that the forced merging of all people in the one 'entertainment precinct' has lead to this unhappy scenario.
 
I don't think it has anything to do with drugs.

Many species of primates (our closest relatives as a species perhaps) commit horrific acts of violence against their own. A primate invading some 'territory' may have its face ripped off and be castrated by primates inhabiting that area.

I'm not saying humans are exactly the same, I'm just saying I don't think we're evolved as we think (well some people ;))
 
puckboy said:
I don't think it has anything to do with drugs.

Many species of primates (our closest relatives as a species perhaps) commit horrific acts of violence against their own. A primate invading some 'territory' may have its face ripped off and be castrated by primates inhabiting that area.

I'm not saying humans are exactly the same, I'm just saying I don't think we're evolved as we think (well some people ;))
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One doesn't hit someone in the face with a schooner glass because they are lower on the evolutionary ladder than you, or less intelligent, or something. When speaking about violence there's always social, political, and economic considerations. For example, a shortage of MDMA due to tougher restrictions on precursor chemicals by governments results in more violence in city nightclubs, ie., it's always a complex thing and we should leave the monkeys shitting in their hand and throwing it for another discussion probably.

I'd love to see some statistics on this.
 
man reading all this just makes me remember why i hate statistics so much.

correlation vs. causation, the age old debate. no MD definitely doesn't help, but in my opinion many other factors are involved as well, like the general trend of today's youth losing values and morals that our elders seemed to have had....damn young'uns
 
travelling_man said:
One doesn't hit someone in the face with a schooner glass because they are lower on the evolutionary ladder than you, or less intelligent, or something.
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I wasn't meaning to imply that. To put it in the most basic terms, what I was trying to say was. Human on human violence exists because humans exist. Sure theres lots of factors that can contribute to someone being a more violent person compared to someone else that would never hurt a fly. And stats of violence can rise and fall, but I guess my point is there will always be violence, as it's wrapped up in the things that make us human. I guess I was going off topic a bit.

I'm not condoning violence for a second btw, infact I despise it, violently ;)
 
I have to agree with the overall trend of the thread so far, violence is a complex issue and has many causes. I am not sure that MDMA availability would be having a huge difference as there is always the possibility that MDMA may be sought by people who have less violent tendencies to begin with on average but this is just an assumption. I do agree that it would probably make even the most violently predisposed people to be less so under its influence but then when the comedown occurs and they are cranky they will be just as much of a fuckwit as they were before they took it or even more so.

The population increase in Australia is quite exponential through history and with more people even if the per capita rate of violence were to remain the same over time, a doubling in population would cause a doubling in violent crimes simply due to the increase of people. From Wikipedia, in 1981 roughly 15 million people, now almost 30 years later there are over 21 million people. Most of this increase has been in the cities so more packed in people more chance of there being violence. I am actually surprised sometimes at how little violence there is in the city(Sydney) considering the amount of people drunk, high, tired etc all in really close proximity with a range of different types of personalities all intermingled. I have not been to the city for at least 8 months though so this may have changed but I have only seen about 1 fight most nights I go there. The bigger problem I had was douchebags trying to 'roll' me and my mates at the train stations, a simply 'no' usually made these wankers go away in time.

Anyway just my 2 cents, sort of related to this topic I guess is this short speech by Steven Pinker I saw a few months back. It is free on google if anyone is interested titled 'the myth of violence' where he asserts that the world is living in the safest time throughout history. He says himself it may seem illogical at first thought but watch the 20 minute video and then critique his theories.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7421959887856210325#
 
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