MDMA shortage contributing to city violence?

[thestudent14]

(as much as I hate to admit this, religion did keep many people "in line" with what was expected of them socially) have deminished significantly in the last couple of generations.

I hate that I agree with you there.

But then again... last couple of generations also had world wars, and go back 200 years I doubt theres credible statistics for number of fights per capita and stuff like that back then.

So it's really just an assumption.... although I do agree lol

 

[hyroller]

haha you're a respectable poster here hyroller

he he.... tis nice of you to comment as such!!!!

and with regards to the religion debarcle.... you're probably right, but belief-driven oppression/containment via the church only really served to highlight peoples'ominious, pre-existing pathological desires (toward, that is, manifesting the more disturbing, unbecoming tendencies in the human race... )

 

[MrIbis]

^Okay roller' I 100% agree with that statement.

Religion, especially catholicism over the past 1000 years... The catholic church was by far one of the most militaristic establishments around... with it's patriarchal system of allowing kiddy fiddlers to control the world (lets look at Rodrigo Borgia here) and the other pricks causing things like the fucking crusades and other genocides - as well as the persecution of the jewish.

They also say Hitler was a devout catholic.

 

[De quincy]

As far as Rum and behaviour goes, in this case, violence, there is a wealth of knowledge that challenges the notion that certain types of alcohol cause disinhibition and subsequent violent behaviours. I believe it’s more a case of learnt behaviour and expectancies with regard to the type of alcohol in question. If you Google anthropological studies on alcohol related behaviours, i.e. violence, within the context of drug, set and setting. It becomes clear that alcohol related behaviour has a lot to do with culture in addition to chemistry when you consider cross cultural norms. Not all dark rum drinkers are violent when you look at the bigger picture. For example, Australians are famous for our binge drinking behaviours, we work hard and play hard, that’s the cultural norm. Yet the French drink far more alcohol than Australians, yet typically, don’t as a culture, have a binge drinking issue. That’s not to say they don’t have problems with alcohol.

With regard to Catholicism I thoroughly recommend you read both, ‘Discipline and Punish’ and ‘Madness and Civilization’ by Michel Foucault. The Inquisition was genocide like no other and typically acted upon women by men in power, the church.

 

[Bent Mk2]

Personally I've long thought two things when it comes to all this apparent alcohol related violence.

1. It's not alcohol related.
2. It's because the drug of choice has changed for many (perhaps because of a lack of choice).

Way back when before I discovered drugs I was a big boozer. My group of mates were all big drinkers, no one touched drugs. Sure we'd go out, get hammered and occasionally someone would crack onto someone else's girlfriend. A few wild swings would be thrown, but 99 times out of 100 nothing more than that would happen as when the vast majority are really pissed they can barely stand let alone punch. And if they get hit, they go down.

These days I've watched blokes take a barrage of hits from 7+ bouncers, and the guy was still walking, still swinging. You can't do that pissed. You HAVE to be charged up on something.

Back in my day (excused the jaded attitude) when we went out it was on some great MDMA pills or pure caps, decent coke or some cheap speed which kept you awake, but that was it.

Now everything seems to have changed. The old happiness in drugs has gone, it's more a case of getting sideways. Coke used to work completely differently as an example, and the speed back then was nothing like the ice and the like of today.

Back when it was MDMA if you were at a massive danceparty you wouldn't see a fight. There'd be no agro, no groups all pumped up and up themselves.

I reckon the papers and politicians have it all wrong. It's not booze, it's drugs (and I've spoken to cops and they agree with me). The problem that have is they can't admit it's drugs as drugs are illegal, and they can't control that. But they can control alcohol through draconian and idiot laws, which gives the papers something to write about, which makes parents happier when they vote.

What it doesn't do is solve the problem. Part of it is the drugs, part of it is personal responsibility. Part of it is the incredibly mainstream acceptance of drugs. And I'm sure there's more.

We'd get fucked up, no doubt. But not to the extent (or the young age) or most importantly not without being armed with knowledge of what could/couldn't happen (alcohol and GHB as an example). There was less of a chance (probably) back then that there'd be something bad in the pills, they'd be duds with caffeine or great.

Now who knows what people are doing, which is why testing now more than ever is vital. I let my guard down recently for the first time in a long time, and severely regretted it.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. My main point is I agree the lack of decent MDMA (along with a change in the type of drugs favoured) has a HUGE impact on violence, far more than booze.

 

[nath6023]

I think that the dicks stand out, if there were 50 people and theres 2 dicks making a scene, the good 48 arn't noticed. Violence atracts attention, thus shit happens. I don't use mdma, dosn't work for me, but i think it's important for people to have access to drugs of non violence. Ice etc still seems to top the violence domestically, but aclohol is by far the most destructive drug available, even more than tobacco. I don't mean to ones self, but others. If you kill youself with drugs, that's your decision....and mine I use many drugs but alcohol is not one of them. Unless the pharmacy runs out of tussin DX, then i'll settle for the DM wich has a little alci in it. If people weren't to scared and stuck up for the one being bullied, violence could be avoided. Most people are pussy's though, and just watch. And hugging the agressor won't help. Maybe mdma filled darts or taser like device that would dose them before the fight happens

 

[kingpin007]

Rum .... Makers Mark bourbon...

that revs people up ....

But I also have seen mates punch shit out of each other and they drinking beer ..

Its just some people shouldnt drink ... and I think age limit should be 21 to drink here in oz.

If the government wants to make $$ then how about stop taxing us peaceful drinkers and increase fines for alcohol consumption for underages ... same with ciggys ... should be 18+ to be able to purchase .. and heavy fines for smoking tobacco if your under 18 ...

if you under 21 and drink booze get a $500 on spot fine ...

if your under 18 and smoke tobacco $500 on spot fine ...

I might seem tough but I would have not smoked or drunk alcohol so soon if those fines would have been hanging over my head.

Back on topic with the shortage , A lil birdie told me things are picking up .... I am still yet to see this.

12 months pill free .... definately recommended to all ... brains working 100% .. not a angry prick as much lol...

 

[nath6023]

^ I see the merit to your statement, but it wouldn't have stopped me. We'de get what ever we wanted. In oz parents buy us the grog. It's in our culture. There's always some kid with an older bro or sis........ You get the point. Because parents that drink tend to accept their kids drinking. And the times i've been super trashed where at my mates place. I started drinking at 14 full on. Don't drink at all now, and stopped when i was 16-17. I've smoked pot since 9, and had only little trouble getting it sometimes. The reaction of the dealer was like"Little dude! You smoke! SICK!" then the deal is done. I look way young for my age btw. And legal age for smoking has always been 18 since i've been around. (NSW) Peace.

 

[purplehaze1]

Euphoric Love? Is it not the complete opposite to violence...

Alcohol fueled violence..
Its been spoken about and whored around by our lame media for what almost a couple of years now?
Images of bashings and fights and videos of thugs and gangs doing their thing to frighten the naive people who take every word for it.
But its true. The idiots do exist. And their growing fast in number.
So the police believe their presence in the streets, limiting the operating hours of clubs and banning the serving of grog in particular places will solve the issue. All it is is an out of touch police force with an out of touch government trying to fix an issue the way the oldies want it or like it to be fixed. Not the honest patrons who are victims each week and want the issue solved badly.
Spending the night in a hospital with a mate whose been hurt and having to make that phone call to his parents is something we all dread. And its not improving. The police the government they are all failing.
But then you ask yourself why now. Why all of a sudden. Why lately all the beat ups and the stories of violence.
Its not as if violence did not occur prior to 2008. Its always been an issue.
The underlying fact is young people are going out frustrated. Without an agenda. They are going out to a place not knowing or planning on what the night will produce. The thugs who are causing the havoc are going out with one motive. Heavy drugs and violence to thrill.
So you would think how do we change the attitude. The perception.
How do we get everyone to simply just get along.
Not all people see eye to eye. But it can be avoided.
Sound familiar. Sound frustrating. Sound like a broken record.
Heres a solution.
Make everyone love each other.
Simple. No police. No violence. No worries.
Love is the key.
So what? I am endorsing the use of drugs. But not just any.
Its an option the police should consider. And this is where it gets messy.
There is no doubt in my mind the lack of ecstasy and I use the term ecstasy as a referral to MDMA. MDMA is the correct term for the word ecstasy. If its not MDMA. Its not ecstasy.
The product has been non existent in Australia and in Melbourne Sydney you name it, for almost 2 years. Maybe longer.
The Love drug which creates a feeling of warmth, euphoria and friendship has disappeared. It has left a hole in many peoples social lives and my view is its taking its toll.
The loss of MDMA has affected the rise of violence.
The loss of MDMA has caused a more negative view into peoples minds and created more hatred.
The loss of MDMA has turned youth onto deadlier harder drugs. And caused more damage then good.
I'm sure most of us know that mate who was there and partying with you when they lost their way and ecstasy couldn't provide that relief so they turned to hard amphetamines, the dirty disgusting pathetic piece of crap that is GHB and in almost most cases- crystal meth-amphetamine ICE.
The lack of MDMA is not helping the issue. It wont solve the current status on our city streets but it will improve it. And eventually may make it a non issue.
If more people are going out and preoccupied with having a good time and enjoying life with the help of a pill, some alcohol and free water all evening.
Violence will go away. The thugs will disappear. The gangs will have no one to target and eventually streets in the city will be calmer.
Its an option. Its one that was there and has now gone.
Now we all know some activity is not smiled upon. But the government controls the nation. The government should be able then to control its issues. Come on. I say bring it back.

 

[MilliVanilli]

I partly agree with what you say, although endorsing drug use hardly has any harm reduction merit.

And yes, we have all heard people rant and rave about how MDMA is the cause for all this street violence. While to an extent this may be true, you need to look at the bigger picture.

The current state of social decadence, the collapse of the family institution, the governments reluctance to take things like street and train violence seriously, racial tensions, current youth culture and their lack of morals and respect, and the fact that our society is hedonistic. Simply making MDMA available to everyone won't solve any of the underlying issues that plague our society. Though, you are right in saying it might alleviate some of the tension that fills the air of clubs currently.

I admire your optimism, but we are going to need a lot more than a high dose MDMA pill to solve all our problems.

And this thread will without a doubt be closed.

 

[thestudent14]

I partly agree with what you say, although endorsing drug use hardly has any harm reduction merit.

And yes, we have all heard people rant and rave about how MDMA is the cause for all this street violence. While to an extent this may be true, you need to look at the bigger picture.

The current state of social decadence, the collapse of the family institution, the governments reluctance to take things like street and train violence seriously, racial tensions, current youth culture and their lack of morals and respect, and the fact that our society is hedonistic. Simply making MDMA available to everyone won't solve any of the underlying issues that plague our society. Though, you are right in saying it might alleviate some of the tension that fills the air of clubs currently.

I admire your optimism, but we are going to need a lot more than a high dose MDMA pill to solve all our problems.

And this thread will without a doubt be closed.

Perfect

 

[internettoughguy]

I see your idea but i dont think it's practical.
There's couple reasons why I dont think it would work entirely like you say it will.

For example, most of the people I know who go out looking for trouble all had the option to take MDMA years ago, i'm sure they did take it, but yet they all still choose to take amphetamines and steroids. Mainly because I think they much prefer the godlike feeling you get while on them, the feeling that you could do anything you want and the enjoyment out of hitting people.
My understanding of why they are enjoy fights so much as that their bodies are still running on their most primal instincts. All they want to do is fight other people and show them that they are physically dominant AKA Alpha Male, and the girls they are after generally like this quality in a man. They get none of those feelings and emotions on MDMA, which is why they like to heavily abuse amphetamines and steroids.

Secondly, not everyone takes drugs. I've met countless people who know the infomation about drugs and thajt they are relatively safe when taken under cautions. But yet they still choose not to take them (apart from alcohol etc). There are still going to be those people who would much rather get blind drunk then take MDMA. Now not all of these people are trouble causers, but there is a higher chance of them accidentally causing trouble with a bump in a club then if they were to bump someone in a club while both on MDMA.
People on MDMA seem to not be as intouch of what's going on around them, the amount of times you constantly get some gurning monster next to you jumping around, elbowing you in the face and stepping on your spanking new Nike Air Max's without even realizing; it's the worst. My point is that MDMA and heavy drinkers dont always mix and that could be it's own violence problem.

Thirdly, even if MDMA became legal as a prescription and heavily controlled amounts prescribed, that wont eliminate the amphetamine situation. People will still take it, it offers a completely different effect profile from MDMA. people take it to get charged and dance like crazy. You don't get that with MDMA alone which is why so many extacy pills have amphetamines in them. i would not be surprised to think that legalizing MDMA would see an increase in amphetamine production and sales as. With amphetamines on the rise, how long would it be until more of those people start smoking it instead, then injecting leading to addiction? I agree that this point is probably blown out of proportion, and that with legalization of MDMA as a prescription party medication, that a large compulsory lecture would be required to learn the effects of MDMA and other drugs before you were able to get your prescription. That even though you would need to attend these lectures, people would still do the wrong thing and then we will see a rise in Amphetamine addiction and related crimes.

I just said lots of smart things and am an intelligent person

And everything this man said.

that being said, i agree with you that the world would be a safer and better place if MDMA was legalized But it wont fix the underlying problems that cause people to take violent action against others

 

[belarki]

purplehaze1 I've just merged your thread into an older one on the same topic.

...The current state of social decadence, the collapse of the family institution, the governments reluctance to take things like street and train violence seriously, racial tensions, current youth culture and their lack of morals and respect, and the fact that our society is hedonistic.....

Haha don't get me started on the state of youth these days and lack of respect & morality 8)

 

[phase_dancer]

Haha don't get me started on the state of youth these days and lack of respect & morality 8)

Well, if peer influence has anything to do with it, your generation is more to blame than mine

 

[hoptis]

This thread reminds me of when police down in Phillip Island made a statement almost some ten years ago that attributed the lack of violence around a New Years Eve celebration to the number of people on ecstasy, and the senior police who rebuked those statements a few days later.

FWIW, I don't think MDMA or other substances are an answer to urban violence.

On the other hand, anecdotally anyway, I spent most of my clubbing years going out between 2002 and 2007 and the very thought of violence in many of the licensed venues I frequented was almost absurd. It just didn't happen.

 

[thestudent14]

Whilst I'm sure the lack of MDMA does make some difference. Our whole culture is becoming more violent. There was always school fights, but knife use has gone way up in the past few years. People gang bash instead of good ol one on ones.

I can't work out what is the main cause for this, or the best way to fix it. But I personally think escalation is a huge impact. You take 100 people and one carries a weapon, another 2 get a weapon so they feel safer. You take this slowly over a long enough period it's going to go up exponentially. Also being is fights make people less concerned about them in future (provided they didn't get too hurt).

I remember a few years ago me and my mates ended up in a street fight that quickly got out of control and ended up with two of my mates in hospital aswell as one or two of the other guys. As terrible as this was and having an ice pick swung at my head as horrific as it could've been even in my drunk state I was able to defend myself.

I'm not saying this has made me get in any fights since, but it does give you more confidence to stand your ground. It only takes one person to be acting like a wanker when your out and someone confident to stand upto him before things can quickly get out of control. The more fights people get in, the more confident they become and the handfull of wankers to make assertive people into aggressive people.

I think the MDMA shortage has just accelerated the process but not directly responsible. Could say it was just a catalyst for speeding up the reaction.

 

[Sustanon]

Too fuked up to write a long decent reply. In short people on a high dose of MDMA will hug there worst enemy

 

[puckboy]

Some (many?) people are angry or become aggressive when they've had a few. Anger is a secondary emotion, it's like the tip of an ice-berg. The reasons for their anger lie beneath in the web of their issues (which everyone has), sadness, excitement, anxiety, depression, peer influence (wanting to be accepted, validating yourself to others for whatever reason) whatever it may be can cause a person to get angry, aggressive and want to assault someone are all possible factors leading to individuals/groups contributing to 'city violence'.

My question would be, why are these (mainly young) people so angry? What are they angry about?

Sadly the current approach is tough love, lock em up - that'll teach em a lesson

 

[L3inad]

My question would be, why are these (mainly young) people so angry? What are they angry about?

Sadly the current approach is tough love, lock em up - that'll teach em a lesson

Ahh but if only that were true

Sadly the violent types you see out on the streets causing trouble for people on any given saturday night are exactly the same people that were on the news for starting shit the week before.

When the system wont take a real stand and punish those for commiting violent acts then nothing changes.

I dont like the idea of jail in any sense, but if people can get locked up indefinately for making alterations to their own brain chemistry then I sure as hell think people that partake in violent activities should be put away for a very long time and be made into an example.

If the ones starting shit are no longer free to do so then your breaking the cycle and wont be seeing the same people doing the same shit next week.

EDIT: I dont care where you come from or why you are the way your are. Nothing gives someone the right to violate another's safety, and those that do should expect no sympathy from anyone.

 

[Sykik]

I think the MDMA shortage has just accelerated the process but not directly responsible. Could say it was just a catalyst for speeding up the reaction.

I think taking MDMA might have more of a pycological change in your perspective of society. Like a big healthy dose of PLUR even once to one of these violent people might calm them down, if only slightly.

When the system wont take a real stand and punish those for commiting violent acts then nothing changes.

Nothing will change. I for one am for stricter lock outs. If you are arrested for violence, you are banned from the clubbing district for 'x' amount of weeks, and if you are caught here again. You go to court, and get community service as well as lengthening the ban.

This was the solution for alcholism and violence in rural queensland where there was a real problem. Seeing as there where only about 12 different pubs in the region, they got together and started banning trouble makers. It made a huge differnce.

Promoters and Club owners 'DONT WANT VIOLENCE' in there clubs. If they worked together with police they could make a big difference. I for one was all against the ID scanning technology. But now, with an increase in violence, I am all for it. Not for use against people taking drugs, but for use against trouble makers.

I would love to see a black list, where trouble makers weren't allowed in, and with the help of the police not allowed in the clubbing district.

Also if you don't think there is a problem with violence. Just see the results of last weekends crack down by australian police. The problem is not isolated to one city, or state.

Queensland police arrested hundreds of people over the weekend in a statewide crackdown on drunken, bad behaviour.

More than 1000 police targeted alcohol-fuelled crime, violence and anti-social behaviour as part of Operation Unite Bravo, which was an operation conducted throughout Australia and New Zealand over the weekend.

Chief superintendent Katarina Carroll said officers patrolled licensed premises and local hotspots around the state.

- Police arrested 279 adults and issued 288 Notices to Appear for a combined total of 660 charges.

- 107 people were detected drink-driving after officers from more than 10,000 random breath tests.

- 454 traffic infringement notices were issued.

- Police detected 26 licensing breaches from 1728 licensed establishments.

- 49 liquor incident reports were submitted, and officers also issued 244 liquor infringement notices.

- 11 juveniles were arrested and eight were issued with Notices to Appear for a combined total of 23 charges.

- Police moved 546 people to a place of safety and issued 170 move-on directions.