MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support)

[ro4eva]

So what happens with the serotonin system in such a long-term comedown?

Unfortunately, these things are poorly understood.

The human body is amazing when it comes to adaptability. This means that there's always a chance a person with a 'serotonin system' which has been chronically exposed to (and damaged by) neurotoxins may make a remarkable recovery, but it's not guaranteed. The person may however increase his or her chances of recovery by adhering to a healthy lifestyle.

My days are pretty much: intense shitty morning, weird afternoon, relatively calm evening, before bed feeling worse

My mornings are usually absolutely terrible as well, but it's due to something unrelated to MDMA use.

Did you know that your blood sugar levels are usually at their lowest in the morning? As is your blood pressure. Could one of these two be a contributing factor in relation to your dysphoric mornings (a doctor may be able to find that out for you).

I apparently react really strongly to blood sugar drops. So after a couple of hours of eating if I don't eat anything I start to get anxiety in waves ( I heard serotonin also regulates this and low levels of serotonin can give a hypoglycemia effect ).

Do you have a family history of diabetes (type 1 or 2)?

If you haven't, I'd recommend you go see an endocrinologist about this issue, because blood sugar issues can be a result of a number of things. For example, your pancreas' ability to secrete insulin may be impaired. Or, it may be functioning within normal range, but rather, the issue could be due to drug use.

Also I get panicky/depressed before bedtime (apparently serotonin production stops and melatonin starts) and wake up a few times in the night feeling panicky (apparently also common with hypoglycemia).

Are you afraid of the dark, and do you sleep alone? Not trying to insult you.

Are (or were) your parents the type who wake (or woke) you up in the morning as if it's boot camp?

Throughout the day I have weird cycles of emotions and physical symptoms. Like feeling really bloated (constipation) or intense DP/DR or feeling really anxious or really depressed and hopeless to the point of crying

Many illnesses can manifest themselves in this way, but if I had to guess, I'd be wondering whether you may have Fibromyalgia.

Time has gone by way too fast and I have trouble believing I'm already 1,5 month in this comedown already

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for you on this, other than to try and make the most of what time you may have left.

Personally, I cannot believe how fast the past 5 years have gone by. It makes me angry with myself thinking about how I used to complain that time was going by too slow back in high school, because now it's the complete opposite in my case.

Sometimes I have waves of just feeling really 'weird', there's no other way to describe it, just a really intense feeling of wow this is so weird

I used to experience such a feeling early on after I got sick. I would describe it as this quick, intense, introspective feeling of sheer awkwardness (felt like the opposite of depersonalization). And it would come in short, somewhat frequent waves or episodes.

To try to make some sense of it, I began to note what I was doing, what time it was, where I was, whether I was alone or not, and so forth when each episode struck me. And I ended up noticing a pattern after a while.

Long story short - It was obvious that these episodes were occurring almost always when I was alone, when I wasn't busy with work or errands, and when I was feeling anxious.

Fast forward a few years - I had forgotten all about this until I read your post.

Hyperacusis, like sound just irks you

For about 2 years after I got sick, any music I heard playing would send me into a rage. It went away on its own after I began exercising again (about 2.5 years after I got sick).

Also have any of you guys checked for thyroid-problems?

I've had mine checked several times. I'm very mildly hypo.

I'm not sure but sometimes I have a drop or rise of body temperature during the day and I think I might have some sort of thyroid problem (I'm going to the doctor this friday)

Again, this could be due to several factors.

After I got sick, I noticed that my limbs - especially at their extremities - would become very cold, very easily. For the longest time, I thought it was due to blood circulation problems. According to tests however, abnormally low levels of hemoglobin appear to be responsible (addressed with a diet change).

---------------------------------------------------------

Hang in there!

 

[Zwanya]

This is for anyone strugglng after an mdma binge. I'll start by saying I am absolutely familiar with the difficult time you are finding yourself in. I also know how devastating and frustrating it can be to experience such symptoms and not find empathy from others. It is almost impossible to understand what these symptoms feel like if you haven't experienced them yourself. Others may think that you are "just sad" or "depressed" and should stop whining, snap out of it, and go back to being your fun "normal" self. You have to learn to take that kind of misunderstanding with a grain of salt. Most of the time these folks aren't trying to hurt your feelings, that simply cannot relate.

I used MDMA for 13 years in the San Francisco and New York party scenes, from 1998-2011, and abused the substance for 10 of those years. I have not taken any MDMA since 2011, and do not plan to take it again. During my rave/club years it was nearly impossible to find pure MDMA in the rave scene. Every single time I rolled I took a pressed pill that was either a mixture of mdma/caffeine or mdma/mda. I rolled at least weekly from 1999-2010 and typically took 2-3 pills per roll. That means I've consumed over 1000 pills in my lifetime.

Despite this devotion to flooding my brain with serotonin every week, I was able to complete high school, attend one of the best colleges in the US, and earn a MA degree from one of the most respected Universities on the planet. I have had a rewarding and diverse career across multiple fields. I say all of this to ensure you that my cognitive abilities were not premanently affected by my use.

I am incredibly sensitive, in all ways, so the phenomenon of not being able to harness my emotions, particularly positive ones, in the days and weeks after a roll was very traumatic for me. As folks have suggested, CBT worked wonders in terms of learning how to balance emotions. But sometimes I didn't even feel as though I had emotions to balance out. I just felt empty. When I felt this way, meditation became my saving grace. It allowed me to ignore everything around me, focus on my breath, and concentrate on myself. As I learned to be more in touch with my own thought process, I was able to access positive and negative thoughts, and therefore, those feelings as well.

If you've never meditated before, try this: sit down in a comfortable position in a comfortable and quiet place in your home. You don't have to sit cross-legged and you don't even have to close your eyes. You can focus on a single spot on the floor if that works better for you. All you need to do is breath. Inhale slowly through your nose, and exhale slowly through your mouth. While you do this, focus on feeling the sensation of your breath traveling through your body. Each one of those breaths is bringing oxegen, and therefore life, into your body, and taking carbon dioxide, meaning stuff you dont need, out of your body. That's also what you are doing by meditating--focusing on all that you need (your mind and your breath, when it comes down to it) and letting everything else go. So much of the joy of meditation comes from the wealth of strength your mind gets by letting what you don't need go. Negativity, fear, judgement, hatred, malice, etc. Let it go. Breathe it out.

Secondly, I in order to get well I focused on my physical self. I began to understand just how important it was for my body to be well in order for my mind to follow suit. Even though I had been an athlete and dancer for years, I learned that wellness means more than working out.

So here's what I did, and still do for myself, for all around wellness:

Drink plenty of fluids. This seems obvious, but often we forget how vital water is to our health. Most of our body is made up of water, and a whole lot of it gets depleted when we roll. Try for 2 liters a day, for a few days. I often substituted coconut water which also has great electrolytes in it as well.

Take a multivitamin, an omega 3 supplement, folic acid, and b6 daily. Again, just giving the body back what got depleted.

Eat whole, fresh foods. This practice is better than taking all of the supplements and vitamins in a drug store. Save your money and go to a farmers market and buy local, organic, whole foods whenever you can. The act of going shopping and cooking your own meals also challenges the mind in great ways and distracts you from whatever your comedown symptoms may be.

Raw fruits and vegetables are more nutritious than cooked foods, as heat can burn away much of the stuff you need out of the plant or vegetable. So go for salads for to easily accomplish this one. As many dark leafy greens as you can handle, but all veggies and fruits, especially those that are red/blue/purple, are going to be great for re-arming your body.

Do some gentle stretching or yoga, and some cardio exercise daily, even if this means walking around your neighborhood. Our muscles ache after mdma use, and paradoxically the only way we can feel better is to keep gently moving. Movement gets the blood flowing, which allows all of the nutrients you are putting back into your body get there as quickly as possible.

If you can, get in a hot tub or sauna. Or just take extra hot baths. Sweat those toxins out. This will also soothe your muscles and joints. If you add Epsom Salt to your bath water you can create a lovely mini-spa in your own tub. The salts are magnesium which is wonderful for your body and a powerful pain reducer.

Be gentle with yourself. When you can, rest. Watch movies, read books if your head doesn't hurt to badly, and be kind to your body and your mind. Watch comedies, have sex, hang out with friends who will lift your mood. Get those natural endorphins flowing again. The body can heal after incredible damage, and so can the brain. Neuroplacticity (the ability for the brain to heal itself and for new neurons to grow) is a true and wonderful phenomenon. Use that as a point of hope for yourself. You will not feel the way you do now forever. Dwelling on the negative only works to perpetuate negative thoughts. Thinking positively works in the same way.

Most of the tips I gave you seem like physical solutions. But body pain can be a reflection of our mood. Certain types of pain is psychosomatic, meaning it is dependent on the state of mind you are in. It also can work the other way--if you are good to your body, your temperment is going to reflect that. Remember, your mind is powerful, and the mind-body connection is stronger than we realize sometimes. If you can muster the strength to meditate and think positively, along with healing your body physically, things will change quickly.

Try all of the above for a few days. I promise you will at least feel slightly better. Keep doing it, and you will feel exponentially better, until one day you realize that the pain and malaise, anxiety and fear have lifted to the point of feeling normal again. I suggest trying everything I've outlined before going for any pharmaceutical remedies. I always employed all of the strategies I outlined for you, and in a short while I felt like myself again. Remember that you know your body and mind better than anyone else. Only you (and your doctor) are going to know best how to treat your symptoms. Take what you read, give it a try, keep what works for you and forget the rest.

I hope you feel more like yourself again soon.

much peace.

 

[ro4eva]

I agree with Zwanya on pretty much everything (s)he pointed out.

CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Training) has been an invaluable therapy for me. It really does work, as long as you don't expect a quick or instant fix.

Meditation can have a profoundly positive impact on your mood, and your life in general, as it has on mine. Some people are so "good" at meditation that they are able to manipulate their minds into releasing unusually high amounts of natural painkillers (endorphins) in their nervous systems, which can cause an intense feeling of well-being. In other words, they're able to get high without the use of drugs.

I'm also a huge advocate of supplementation with omega-3 fatty acids - especially for improved cardiovascular and brain function. Consequently, for an ecstasy user, his/her brain and cardiovascular system are two of the most stressed out areas of the body whenever 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is consumed.

Supplementation with a reputable Omega-3 fatty acids product has been shown to yield some very impressive benefits to cardiovascular and brain function, health, and even development.

If you do decide to supplement with such a product, I highly recommend you pick up a formulation which contains the following Omega-3 fatty acids:

Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) - One study reports the remission of depressive symptoms and decrease in lateral ventricular volume of a patient who suffers from chronic fatigue syndrome after taking high-EPA essential fatty acid supplement.
Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) - It is now considered so important to brain and eye development that DHA is included in most infant formulas.

Also, try to stay away from formulations which contain artificial sweeteners or preservatives, corn, dairy, wheat, starch, color, or yeast.

With respect to risk of supplementation with Omega-3, the only two things I know of are:
- Increased risk of hemorrhaging when using very high amounts, due to the increased breakdown of fibrin, which the body uses to help stop bleeding.
- Inhibition of Cytochrome P450 hepatic (liver) enzymes, including CYP2D6 and CYP3A4, which are used to break down and eliminate a large amount of prescription and street drugs (including MDMA - CYP2D6).

P.S. - Do not be discouraged by claims that Omega-3 isn't effective for the proper function, development, and/or general health of the aforementioned parts of the body. You should know that there are a lot of "elites" who stand to lose a lot of money if, for example, the majority of Americans turn to essential supplements - such as Omega-3 fatty acids - instead of one of the many (very expensive, and possibly very risky) Rx drugs available on the market. So unfortunately, a lot of misinformation and/or disinformation is being spread across the internet. Welcome to capitalism.

P.P.S. - Some pharmaceutical companies take it a step further: They secretly fund their own studies of Omega-3 fatty acids. It is not unheard of for these studies to be conducted in a manner which is unlawful. For example, the Omega-3 fatty acid may be covertly switched out for a placebo pill, or the results may be greatly exaggerated (or even falsified). It has happened several times in the past with drugs such as Vioxx and OxyContin. And when they are caught red-handed, the government treats the whole fiasco like it's a misdemeanor, even though the companies are responsible for the deaths of thousands of patients. In the end, all they owe to society for betraying the trust of the nation is a fine, and no jail time for anyone involved. Once again - welcome to capitalism.

 

[pmz]

Absolutely - for about 2 years after getting sick, any music whatsoever sounded awful. It was a very quiet time in my life (in that respect at least).

And everything came back with no disconnect anymore? You now able to feel the vibrations from music? Like that wub feeling from dupstep is how I can describe it.

Im starting to feel that actual feeling of compassion come back and love for things again. But its such a slow recovery for me. Im finally getting that satisfied feeling again from working out at the gym.

Forgive me if I missed one of your other posts, but have you been diagnosed with any mental illnesses? And, are you on any psychiatric prescription medication?

Nope, saw a few docs, but nothing official has ever been diagnosed, or ever previously in my life. No depression or anxiety or any mental illness in my life prior to this.

I'm receiving mixed signals from you. What I mean is, it sounds like you're feeling overly apathetic. But is that due to the bad roll, or a pre-existing condition, or Rx meds? Or is it a combination?
By the way, it was apathy which caused me to not be able to enjoy music, or laugh during a comedy movie, or even be scared by some horror flick.

See its weird, because I can socialize nearly perfectly like normal, watch movies and laugh. Its just doesnt feel as strong as It once used. However dont get that scared feeling by horror movies, or that adrenaline feeling from action movies. It goes the same way for music, I just dont get that "feeling" from music.
Yet, I can have a good time with friends and am learning to enjoy the moment. There was a time where this was impossible though. I had to relearn how to socialize. I feel like I have a hard time relaxing, like its hard to just lay around and just chill in the sun. finding that relaxed feeling is tough. But getting better.

Do you know of anything which helps your brain fog and fatigue go away temporarily?

In my case, brain fog was one of the worst symptoms I had to deal with constantly. After much trial and error with dozens of different Rx drugs, I found that two of them (Xanax and Wellbutrin XL - especially as a combination) temporarily made my brain fog, dizziness, depersonalization, fatigue, vivid dreams, apathy, concentration problems, and other (but not all) symptoms nearly non-existent. A little over a year later, I was well enough to return to full time work.

Ive choosen to not take any drugs during this, except Risperidone, which I hated the way it made me feel after a month. Im working my way out of it through meditation and mindfulness. I feel its working.

I would say working out helps. Its hard to actually find something that works consistantly. I have this roller coaster of getting better than falling back into fatigue again.

My concentration is getting far better and so is my memory. I still have that diassosociation though.

Though im still hesitant to take any drugs. I think I can recover from this naturally.

Hope I answered everything.

Oh btw, Its been about 53 weeks by now since this happened.

 

[ro4eva]

And everything came back with no disconnect anymore?

Oh yes, it came back with a vengeance. 2007 (for me) was a magical year. I listened to so much trance, hard trance, hardstyle, and hardcore that I damaged my left ear drum - but it was worth it. I'll never forget 2007 - what an amazing year that was.

The other reason why 2007 was such a great year for me was because I was able to go to a rave and roll from dusk 'til dawn - with no problems. That night was like the icing on the cake of a great summer, of a great year.

You now able to feel the vibrations from music? Like that wub feeling from dupstep is how I can describe it.

Dude I know exactly the feeling you're talking about. This is probably a poor example, but it's like you're being electrocuted + whole body chills + goosebumps (especially on the arms).

The difference of course is that it feels good and energetic. I've been getting this feeling since the first time I rolled (if I remember correctly) - which was back in 1999. Ah... good times.

Im starting to feel that actual feeling of compassion come back and love for things again. But its such a slow recovery for me. Im finally getting that satisfied feeling again from working out at the gym.

Hehe, that's where I began getting it again in early 2007 (on my eliptical trainer). It was very emotional for me to experience it for the first time in almost 2 years. I ended up getting into trouble afterwards because I cranked up the trance music while exercising.

See its weird, because I can socialize nearly perfectly like normal, watch movies and laugh. Its just doesnt feel as strong as It once used. However dont get that scared feeling by horror movies, or that adrenaline feeling from action movies. It goes the same way for music, I just dont get that "feeling" from music.
Yet, I can have a good time with friends and am learning to enjoy the moment. There was a time where this was impossible though. I had to relearn how to socialize. I feel like I have a hard time relaxing, like its hard to just lay around and just chill in the sun. finding that relaxed feeling is tough. But getting better.

So what you're saying is that (for the most part) everything sort of feels blunted?

You know how many ecstasy pills turn out to be "meth bombs?" Well, it's possible that you may have sustained some damage to your dopamine neurons due to the meth use. And this may be a reason for the blunted feelings/experiences.

I myself experienced a significant blunting of fun experiences when my doc had me on neuroleptics, which included Zyprexa (Olanzapine), Seroquel (Quetiapine), and Risperdal (Risperidone).

Ive choosen to not take any drugs during this, except Risperidone, which I hated the way it made me feel after a month. Im working my way out of it through meditation and mindfulness. I feel its working.

That's respectable of you. Just remember though: there's no shame in being on medication if you need it.

I would say working out helps. Its hard to actually find something that works consistantly. I have this roller coaster of getting better than falling back into fatigue again.

Hmm... is this "roller coaster" feeling something which takes place over the course of a day, or a week, or month?

Kind of sounds like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

My concentration is getting far better and so is my memory. I still have that diassosociation though.

Yeah unfortunately, for me, trouble concentrating and disassociation were two symptoms which did not improve whatsoever - that is, until I was put on Xanax + Wellbutrin XL.

Even weirder, is the fact that the symptoms did not return when I was forced to stop taking both the Xanax and the Wellbutrin XL for a period of about 7 weeks.

Though im still hesitant to take any drugs. I think I can recover from this naturally.

Well, give yourself a pat on the back for trying to do this without more drugs. Perhaps you will make a full recovery without the use of more drugs. And if you do, in the near future, be sure to stop and try to help someone else who's going through the same thing, because you know the feeling (they need all the support they can get to get through such an ordeal).

Oh btw, Its been about 53 weeks by now since this happened.

So you recently passed the 1 year mark, is that right?

Keep up the good work, don't give up.

I sincerely hope you make a full recovery.

 

[pmz]

Oh yes, it came back with a vengeance. 2007 (for me) was a magical year. I listened to so much trance, hard trance, hardstyle, and hardcore that I damaged my left ear drum - but it was worth it. I'll never forget 2007 - what an amazing year that was.

The other reason why 2007 was such a great year for me was because I was able to go to a rave and roll from dusk 'til dawn - with no problems. That night was like the icing on the cake of a great summer, of a great year.



Dude I know exactly the feeling you're talking about. This is probably a poor example, but it's like you're being electrocuted + whole body chills + goosebumps (especially on the arms).

The difference of course is that it feels good and energetic. I've been getting this feeling since the first time I rolled (if I remember correctly) - which was back in 1999. Ah... good times.

I feel like thats gonna happen for me soon. Did this gradually come back? or did one day it was like POW.... feelings again! lol

So what you're saying is that (for the most part) everything sort of feels blunted?

Pretty much, like its hard to connect with my emotions, like it feels like they are there, I know it, I just cant access them, if that makes sense.

You know how many ecstasy pills turn out to be "meth bombs?" Well, it's possible that you may have sustained some damage to your dopamine neurons due to the meth use. And this may be a reason for the blunted feelings/experiences.

I had powder that I chemically tested my self. I know it was strong MDMA or MDA. I also combined that night with Ketamine. I think the K was the real trigger.

That's respectable of you. Just remember though: there's no shame in being on medication if you need it.

Its no shame, I feel I can come back even better from it without the use of meds.

Hmm... is this "roller coaster" feeling something which takes place over the course of a day, or a week, or month?

Kind of sounds like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

It takes place of the course of a few weeks actually. Ill be better for a good week, then fall back into feeling very tired and drained for a week or 2, then get energy back for a week and so on.

Could be a chronic fatigue or adrenal fatigue. Ive gotten so much blood work, and test nothing really shows a nutrient imbalance. But it could be fatigue, due to emotional stress.

I did have a neurotransmitter test done, that read that my serotonin, PEA and epinephrin were under the 2% percentile range. So that makes alot of sense that yes, my neurotransmitters as way out of wack. She said, that antidepressents wouldnt even work for me due to I have so little serotonin to even have a antidepressant work on them.

Yeah unfortunately, for me, trouble concentrating and disassociation were two symptoms which did not improve whatsoever - that is, until I was put on Xanax + Wellbutrin XL.

Even weirder, is the fact that the symptoms did not return when I was forced to stop taking both the Xanax and the Wellbutrin XL for a period of about 7 weeks.

Meditation seems to be helping me alot with concentration. and also just time. Its been getting better as the months roll on.

So you recently passed the 1 year mark, is that right?

Keep up the good work, don't give up.

I sincerely hope you make a full recovery.

Yup 1 year man. Slow and surly getting a little bit better.

 

[coderbrah]

Thanks for the reply.

Has anybody here struggled with severe pessimism/depression and confusion? I'm at the 1,5 month mark now and I'm so severely pessimistic and depressed and feel all alone in the world. Also a lot of the time I just have no idea what's happening anymore or what has happened or how it came this far or how I'm already 1,5 months in this comedown. I just feel really tired and confused/forgetful. Like I don't even know what to say to myself anymore to get me through this, it's an intense emotional rollercoaster. Sometimes I'm even afraid I'm going to lose my mind/lose control/get dementia.

 

[Delfin]

Thanks for the reply.

Has anybody here struggled with severe pessimism/depression and confusion? I'm at the 1,5 month mark now and I'm so severely pessimistic and depressed and feel all alone in the world. Also a lot of the time I just have no idea what's happening anymore or what has happened or how it came this far or how I'm already 1,5 months in this comedown. I just feel really tired and confused/forgetful. Like I don't even know what to say to myself anymore to get me through this, it's an intense emotional rollercoaster. Sometimes I'm even afraid I'm going to lose my mind/lose control/get dementia.

I guess this is very common, especially in the early stages.
I felt exactly the same way. I felt so depressed and pessimistic that I was sure I suffered from pure depression and not anxiety - which I know now isn't the case. Im 3 months in and even though I still feel shit, It does get gradually better. I actually don't remember much of the first 2 months because of the confusion you address
, it was all so messy. For me that was the first thing that got better, I'm thinking more clear and I don't get "confused" that much anymore.

Hang in there

 

[coderbrah]

I guess this is very common, especially in the early stages.
I felt exactly the same way. I felt so depressed and pessimistic that I was sure I suffered from pure depression and not anxiety - which I know now isn't the case. Im 3 months in and even though I still feel shit, It does get gradually better. I actually don't remember much of the first 2 months because of the confusion you address
, it was all so messy. For me that was the first thing that got better, I'm thinking more clear and I don't get "confused" that much anymore.

Hang in there

Yeah the past 6 weeks are also a blur when I try to think about it. It's really weird because apparently serotonin affects your 'visual' memory and thinking. Like I can solve complex coding problems but I can't really imagine large code architecture.

Also does anyone have any positive experiences with St. John's Wort and/or Inositol?

Also also, how did therapy work out for you guys? I'm going to my doctor this friday and I'm going to tell him everything and also going to ask for a psychologist. However I'm not really 'confident' in my doctor or psychologist if you guys catch my drift?

I'm so happy I found blue-light and am beginning to accept that this might take a couple of months. Also it's good to have open-minded parents who supported me through this whole ordeal. My friends who are frequent XTC users were absolutely dumbfounded how I could have all these effects from my first-time drug-use.

It's so weird. I always had fear of 'losing control' and was never comfortable drinking alcohol and taking drugs (I was 'straight edge' for 6 years until I took the pill that changed my life). Then in the midst of a strong burnout I decided to go to A State Of Trance anyway (even though I was feeling really tired). I was curious about XTC so when a friend told me he had a pill I asked if I could have half of it. My friends (who were very comforting and now have massive feelings of guilt) told me that I would be fine and I wouldn't get a hangover from such a small dose. So at the toilet when I looked at the pill I said to myself "I'm going to accept whatever comes next", and here I am- 1,5 months into the absolute worst experience of my life :D, funny how life works like that.

 

[PJ2]

I find it amazing how most of our symptoms are extremely similar in these long comedown scenarios. Of course, all the government sites talk about all the damage MDMA does to the brain etc., but TheDEA.org makes many compelling and intelligent arguments against some of the information and studies that are used for this misinformation. It's quite obvious the author of the site is a neurologist himself or somehow an expert on the subject matter. I would check it out if you haven't already.

I will say reading that site does just confuse me more. According to that site, there is no way I suffer from neurotoxicity based on dosages and the fact that I was never overheated in anyway while on the drug, which seems to be the biggest antagonist for neurotoxicity to occur. Then again, he discusses a lot of the comedowns from MDMA are from neuroadaptation, but that process is usually one that lasts a month or two, which, again doesn't explain the situation most of us are in.

Has anyone actually had the scan done that can detect the seratonin axonal structures in the brain (I think's it's called a functional MRI)? It's not surprising that most scans come back normal for people in our situation. I'm an analyical thinker by nature and this whole thing has got me so curious as to what happened.

 

[pmz]

I find it amazing how most of our symptoms are extremely similar in these long comedown scenarios. Of course, all the government sites talk about all the damage MDMA does to the brain etc., but TheDEA.org makes many compelling and intelligent arguments against some of the information and studies that are used for this misinformation. It's quite obvious the author of the site is a neurologist himself or somehow an expert on the subject matter. I would check it out if you haven't already.

I will say reading that site does just confuse me more. According to that site, there is no way I suffer from neurotoxicity based on dosages and the fact that I was never overheated in anyway while on the drug, which seems to be the biggest antagonist for neurotoxicity to occur. Then again, he discusses a lot of the comedowns from MDMA are from neuroadaptation, but that process is usually one that lasts a month or two, which, again doesn't explain the situation most of us are in.

Has anyone actually had the scan done that can detect the seratonin axonal structures in the brain (I think's it's called a functional MRI)? It's not surprising that most scans come back normal for people in our situation. I'm an analyical thinker by nature and this whole thing has got me so curious as to what happened.

You bring up interesting debate.

If you were to research depersonalization. You will notice that the symptoms of that disorder align exactly to how we feel.

Now if you also look at the usual sufferer of deperson, you will see tjat most of them have not had it from drug use at all. The majority of DP sufferers get it from childhood or situational trauma.

Typically its a massive anxiety attack of a general state of high anxoety that will evebtuallu lead to full blown DP.

From i have learned about DP is that its the brains way of protecting it self from protecting itself from further trauma by not letting us feel. Or simply by shutting itself self as a way to escape from stress. Its avtually very similar to PTSD. Im a way. Thats what we are experiancing, a very deap PTSD.

For me at least, i think the amount and combination of drugs i took set of a chemical brain imbalance. That made me feel very shot out and off. I reacted by having a massive anxiety attack which resulted the following 12 months of dp.

If it was brain damage, i would have woken up with DP the next morning, but it in fact took 2 days to kick in, when i was at work and realized i wasnt able to process math or form images in my head. This triggered a massive anxiety attack. I felt fine, but very shot out Sunday just relaxing with my gf. Why did only on Monday at work did i only begine feeling actual comedown symptoms?

I believe through months of anxiety our brains are rewired to associate everything with anxiety and feeling of numbness. Which causes stress and depression, which causes fatigue.

Mindfulness and meditation and learning to relax have been the most beneficial tools ive been using.

Ive tried every suppliment for months. I don't think its a brain damage, but our brains dont release the pleasure chemicals since we are under a constant state of stress. We need to learn how to relax again.

Our brain needs to learn thats its ok to feel ok again. Forget about brain damage, your wasting your time. Learn how to relax and love life again.

That is the ONLY way to really heal.

 

[pmz]

Ive had multiple scans and test done. I had a neurotransmitter test tjat shown all my neurotransmitters were insanely low. Brain damage? I don't think so. I think its a brain that was conditioned for stress, so of course it doesnt produce pleasure chemicals. I took a billion suppliments to help it. And nothing worthed. Just learn to relax again. Let your learn how to enjoy life again. Its a very slow process but its what works. Mindfulness. Look it up

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

I find it amazing how most of our symptoms are extremely similar in these long comedown scenarios. Of course, all the government sites talk about all the damage MDMA does to the brain etc., but TheDEA.org makes many compelling and intelligent arguments against some of the information and studies that are used for this misinformation. It's quite obvious the author of the site is a neurologist himself or somehow an expert on the subject matter. I would check it out if you haven't already.

I will say reading that site does just confuse me more. According to that site, there is no way I suffer from neurotoxicity based on dosages and the fact that I was never overheated in anyway while on the drug, which seems to be the biggest antagonist for neurotoxicity to occur. Then again, he discusses a lot of the comedowns from MDMA are from neuroadaptation, but that process is usually one that lasts a month or two, which, again doesn't explain the situation most of us are in.

Has anyone actually had the scan done that can detect the seratonin axonal structures in the brain (I think's it's called a functional MRI)? It's not surprising that most scans come back normal for people in our situation. I'm an analyical thinker by nature and this whole thing has got me so curious as to what happened.

Well, there are a bunch of studies showing that a single dose of MDMA can be plenty neurotoxic in mammalian brains, rats and primates. It also shows that the neurotoxic potential of MDMA increases dramatically with repeated dosing, like re-dosing the same night, or taking another dose the night after. It's interesting to note that a very high percentage of comedown-sufferers did indeed re-dose or did it on consecutive days.

I do think that TheDEA are cherry-picking research, especially in the light of a few new retrospective studies that are not pleasant to read at all. There is no shortage of evidence of altered 5-HT activity in former ecstasy users either, not to mention clinically significant impairments in measures like depression, sleep and memory.

Every fMRI scan I've read about being done by any of the comedown sufferers on here has come back absolutely normal.

I blame the "safe status" of MDMA, mediated by sites like thedea.com especially, for the situation I find myself in ATM.

 

[coderbrah]

I read somewhere in this thread that someone used melatonin for sleep. I have read reports that melatonin is supposed to worsen atypical depression, did any of you have this effect? I had been using melatonin for a good three weeks (atleast it made me sleep!) and then I started gaining an increasing feeling of pessimism and depressive bouts ( I wasn't having these in the first weeks of my comedown ). I've also been taking some supplements in the last weeks (mostly vitamins and minerals (also tried 5htp and l-tryptophan, which gave me a little bit of symptom relief but I've experimented with these and they did not contribute to this feeling) so I'm not really sure if it's just the melatonin but it kind of makes sense since my melatonin/serotonin balance is way off?

 

[pmz]

I read somewhere in this thread that someone used melatonin for sleep. I have read reports that melatonin is supposed to worsen atypical depression, did any of you have this effect? I had been using melatonin for a good three weeks (atleast it made me sleep!) and then I started gaining an increasing feeling of pessimism and depressive bouts ( I wasn't having these in the first weeks of my comedown ). I've also been taking some supplements in the last weeks (mostly vitamins and minerals (also tried 5htp and l-tryptophan, which gave me a little bit of symptom relief but I've experimented with these and they did not contribute to this feeling) so I'm not really sure if it's just the melatonin but it kind of makes sense since my melatonin/serotonin balance is way off?

Naw. I used meletonin for about 6 mobths. I dont think it worsened depression. But i think i got dependent on it. Its a natural chemical the brain produces. So the more you take it externally the less your brain produces it. Which i guess could mess with natural sleep patterns whicj could then make depression worse

 

[pmz]

I sleep pretty good now. Just let things balance out naturally

 

[PJ2]

Completely disagree. There are no real new studies on neurotoxicity. I've read them all or all that I could find. The dosing of those animals was massive and for many many days in a row AND still neurotoxicity usually only occurred when overheating was present.

There is certainly evidence that re-dosing and dosing on consecutive days is less safe in terms of having a longer comedown, but that is not really what we are going through I don't think. I have done this drug like 4/5 times total. This last time was less than half a cap, but on consecutive nights. I am talking a couple of fingertip dips in the baggie placed under the tongue. In no way would I have thought this sort of thing would have or could have happened from what I did.

Plus, there are drugs that we have taken that act on the seratonin system in the brain looking for relief from our symptoms, but if our systems were so damaged why are those drugs working??? It's all very confusing.

PMZ, what do you mean your neurotransmitters were very low? Seratonin and Dopamine? How about axonal damage? That is the real concern!

Coderbrah, I'm no doctor, but Melatonin helps your sleep cycle about as naturally as you can do it not on your own. I fail to see how that is a problem in any way. It's helped me at times to no only keep a somewhat normal schedule, but to fall asleep period although I just got out of a sleep-all-day up-all-night phase. Also, sleeping patterns and getting good enough sleep are problems while depressed. So, again, I fail to see how Melatonin is a problem in that regard. If it's helping you sleep right, then it can't possibly worsen depression. It's also a relaxant that relieves anxiety somewhat.

BTW, am I doing something wrong when posting on this site? I always have to refresh the page and log back in before I can post. It's really annoying like I am timed out in about 30 seconds. Anyone else get what I am talking about? Any pointers?

 

[pmz]

PMZ, what do you mean your neurotransmitters were very low? Seratonin and Dopamine? How about axonal damage? That is the real concern!

Ugh, who cares. Perosnally. From the amount of times you took the drug, No I cannot see an actual axonal or neural or who gives a crap damage. Perosnally why does it make a difference? Ive done extensive research about this topic. Between the amount of people going through this issue and the number of things tried. No one treatment provides consitant results. Meaning, its not a celluar damage in my believe. I think Initially, there was a chemical shift, that was severe enough to cause the anxiety. Maybe it messed with the way your brain was wired at the time and threw things out of wack. Your brain, said, "fuck you, Im out" and decided to shut down for a while and go into hiding. Just like PTSD works, this is a compound issue, of possibly adrenal fatigue from stress, PTSD from anxiety. Insomnia from anxiety, which will cause multitude of things.

Keep this one thing in mind.... There are thousands of people with this exact disorder, you can call it depersonilization for conversation sake, that experiance the EXACT same symptoms as all of us to that got all this from smoking weed, or taking acid. 2 drugs that are absolutly 10000000% safer on the physical body. Yet for some reason, they experiance the same dissasociation, memory loss, concentration loss, apathy, anxiety, insomnia and so on.

Why? Why can a drug that causes no neurotoxicity cause the exact symptoms of the little drug we took?

Its all in the mind. I think the brain was litterally rewired due to an experiance. It triggered somehow an innitial event of anxiety so severe the following symptoms took place.

Thats it. Stop thinking "I need to heal my brain" its not that simple. You need to heal your MIND. Its wayyyyyyy different. Stop wasting time of figuring out why and just learn to live your life again. Day by day, force your self to just live your life as best you can. You dont have brain damage, you have a disease of the mind and healthy positive living is the only cure.

Go run, work out, do meditation, yoga, see friends, try.... try to have fun regardless of how you feel. Just do it. Try to laugh and have a good time. and do it every day. Do what you like. and stop trying to figure it out. Figure out what makes you happy. whats what will help you.


And yes, serotonin, PEA, epinephrine were all VERY low. Why, I dont know. Were my neurotransmitters damaged? Or is my brain just not releasing those chemicals because its learned not to? I think my brain is perfectly capable of producing these chemicals, it just chooses not to release them. I have to reteach my self how to relax and how to feel again. And slowly the release of the feel good chemicals will increase.

BTW, am I doing something wrong when posting on this site? I always have to refresh the page and log back in before I can post. It's really annoying like I am timed out in about 30 seconds. Anyone else get what I am talking about? Any pointers?

yes, your not clicking "remember me" button before you log in.

 

[angeleyes]

^ Hit the nail on the head right here with this post.

Healing your mind is a completely different matter and it isn't something that happens in a day. 8 months later I am feeling like I am on the right path, most definitely, but am I 100%? No, definitely not, but I am getting there.

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

Completely disagree. There are no real new studies on neurotoxicity. I've read them all or all that I could find. The dosing of those animals was massive and for many many days in a row AND still neurotoxicity usually only occurred when overheating was present.

I don't think we should discuss this further in this thread, but maybe we could start one in the Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion board. The only new studies I mentioned was retrospective studies of current and past MDMA users. I can link it to you in a PM if you want, won't link it in this thread.