Are you on any SSRIs at all still? I just remember you mentioning that you were on an SSRI before the LTC started but don't remember if you were still on it or not. Was it helping you prior to the LTC and did the effect change after?
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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)
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Are you on any SSRIs at all still? I just remember you mentioning that you were on an SSRI before the LTC started but don't remember if you were still on it or not. Was it helping you prior to the LTC and did the effect change after?
No, I'm not. I did ok on them before the LTC. I stopped taking them when the LTC started. I just wanted to cold turkey everything and just let my body adjust. And I began to feel better...before the caffeine and then all hell broke loose again. The LTC for me seems like a stress response to substances. So stuff like 5htp or coffee or whatever will throw me off. Hesitant to go on SSRIs now for this reason. I have a feeling I would be in the crowd where the SSRI would make me much worse.
Oh I was just wondering whether it was some ridiculous interaction between SSRI/5-HTP. After all I believe the 5 HTP bottle says don't take it with an SSRI.
Dang and did your LTC symptoms worsen after quitting SSRI cold turkey?
Yeah it could've been the interaction I don't know. I went into LTC type stuff immedietely after the roll and then I took 5 htp out of desperation and it made me feel better. So I kept with that combo for a week paying no mind to the interaction. 1 week in and the LTC started. I noticed that taking the Paxil was making me worse so I stopped everything. I got better. And now worse again.
Do you know something about HPA/HPT-axis and SSRI? Just found this while I searched on SSRI: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18626269?dopt=Abstract
And I just found out that the Studies that showed lowered Tryptophan-Hydroxylase in rats were done with baby rats, so this really shouldn't be a problem. I'm now taking Sertralin again, but I'm still interested in the possible side effects, so I would be very happy if you find some more information, maybe per PM to not overfill this thread
If you haven't already seen this.
This guy explains DP/DR very well. I sent this video to a lot of my friends who didn't seem to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpX051fZrps
This guy explains DP/DR very well. I sent this video to a lot of my friends who didn't seem to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpX051fZrps
Cotcha Yankinov
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Higher doses are well known for causing HPPD though some may be just fine. You could try doxylamine succinate on the other hand.
Cotcha Yankinov
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Amml, I would be careful about what conclusions we draw from studies like that because they tend to say very little about causality. Showing that people who are depressed that take SSRIs have lower gonadotropin hormone levels than people who never had a psychiatric diagnosis who are not on any meds doesn't necessarily mean that the SSRIs are actually causing the lower testosterone etc, because lower levels of those hormones are associated with depression. So it could just be that depressed people have lower testosterone in the first place rather than SSRIs are lowering testosterone.
SSRIs could even potentially reverse the depression that's causing the low testosterone in the first place. And there's probably bi-directionality there, you could treat depression by correcting low testosterone.
SSRIs could even potentially reverse the depression that's causing the low testosterone in the first place. And there's probably bi-directionality there, you could treat depression by correcting low testosterone.
Speaking of Testosterone and gonadotropins--I had mine checked recently and it was also normal but "low-ish". Though I don't know for sure whether the stress of LTC caused that or whether it is responsible, at least in part, for some LTC symptoms. Either way its a cycle and a chicken/egg issue. But I wouldn't be surprised if its a cause or an effect or both (cause vicious cycle). Maybe I was somehow genetically prone to it and then MDMA pushed me over though.
8BitTrip
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Once I put it out there, it seemed more real than I expected, which is a caveat of verbalizing problems; it can manifest things that aren't necessarily true. It's a double edged sword in the sense that it can be good to be in touch with thoughts but also to know when to let them cease. Also since I've been so attentive to the way I've articulated my points, to ensure authenticity, I've ended up admitting a lot to myself that's been playing on my mind, of which I want to come to better a understanding. At the time I needed to sleep so I just deleted it to save myself the headache.
Although I am grateful you noticed Amml and I'm going to repost it, and leave it for at least a bit longer than last time.
I haven't posted in a while, so I'm going to use a kind of stream-of-consciousness style. I don't mean to be self indulgent, but I have a lot of pent up ideas I need to express. So here they are, warts and all:
Current experience with the LTC; improved awareness of brain and more positive sensations in head like increased bloodflow, particularly around the outsides of my brain. Though the contrast has made me much more aware of areas that lack feeling like the striatum and prefrontal cortex and an uncomfortable 'knowing' of deteriorated areas, like if I swallow I can sense/visualise impairments. But overall still a greater sense of vitality than 6 months ago. Overall experience has gone from very negative to slightly negative/neutral with nuances of positivity but I would still class it as anhedonic since I'm not experiencing much pleasure from the usual stuff which is distressing. I can seem to derive pleasure cereberally, by intellectualizing the positivity but the usual physical, sensual response in the brain is muted if not entirely absent. Improved but still half-hearted yawn - this appears to be a simple way but effective way of gauging my serotonin. Occasional DP/DR. Some difficulty falling asleep, sleeping lightly but durations seem okay. There are also a few more damning physical problems but I prefer to focus on overcoming the perceptual stuff for now.
So I've started to seriously question my prospects for recovery. I don't know whether to foster acceptance and expect only some minor recovery from hereon. If so I will be forced to surrender to the spiritual path in which case I would be looking at radically changing my lifestyle and life prospects, as in the possibility of giving everything up and moving to the East would be more realistic if I am to remain this way. The UK is no domain for chronic anhedonia. What's the point in living in a competitive system once there's nothing to compete for?
Or should I persist in every avenue of effort and settle for nothing less than the return of at least some 'feeling' up there once again or will this expectation only lead to greater disappointment and suffering? My symptoms are so variable it constantly thwarts any reasonable judgement - is it temporary structural changes in the brain, insufficient neurotransmitters, or simply damage? Maybe it's withdrawal? Are the symptoms physiological or psychological - no, surely not the latter. Maybe psychosomatic? Or totally illusory - this I doubt.
In the beginning I hoped for the slightest improvements and promised I'd be grateful for the smallest gains and in some ways I remain much more grateful for long neglected basic virtues. I am much more mindful and appreciative of the tiniest of sensations. I've implemented a lot of positive changes my life. I'm transformed even; paradoxically becoming more caring for people through selflessness. I'm on a perma-egodeath so it's much easier to subjugate myself to the cause of love. But I'm sacrificing some things that apparently mattered to me before. And ultimately the better I get the more I long for my 'old self', especially as that 'self' gets older. It's been 11 months and I'm getting increasingly impatient and desperate.
I don't understand how MDMA is taken by so many millions of people and claimed to be 'relatively safe' if it can lead to this level of psychological torment; an undefined duration of anhedonia. The unknowing of the duration is daunting. I'm surprised there isn't more stern caution by its users. As in, the number of reports like mine and others in this thread and on the internet combined seems tiny compared to how many people are abusing. Is it that they're suffering in silence, or that the majority don't dwell and recover eventually?
Alright so there's definitely caution i.e. the 'once a month rule', except I always saw that as a guideline. And in my ingrained adherence to the British culture of excess drink/drug use I was led to follow suit. I expected to see the warning signs well in advance. My reasoning was: as long as I'm functioning and it doesn't impede on my daily life it isn't a drug problem, when doing once, sometimes twice a month, especially since so many report its harmlessness. (Given, I always consumed a lot with redosing, alcohol and no supplements but plenty of rest following) I thought I needed to know where the boundaries lied by pushing them and only then would I know where to draw a line. I wanted to understand everything about it, to be a fountain of MDMA knowledge, for mine and others' benefits alike. If I was going to encourage others to partake, I needed to know it inside out so we could 'roll' at our leisure without unexpected unreasonable consequences. My positive to negative experience ratio was ~25:0 and counting so I was beginning to prove my thesis, no doubt with strong confirmation bias but nonetheless my symptoms were negligible - temporary jaw pain, sore gums, lethargy and a little grouchiness but overall awaking with an afterglow and filled with a tremendous sense of awe and wonder for days, if not weeks afterwards. And yes I tested it every time, took it in the company of friends and never had any traumatic experiences or particularly dilapidating comedowns. So I had become one of those MDMA-til-I-die crusaders. But then almost overnight it hit me like a train - 3 weeks after my last usage, a whole host of symptoms surfaced - suddenly, but developed [read: worsened] gradually for around a month at which point the majority began to improve at a snail's pace.
Fast forward to today and it's a sustained effort just to maintain positivity and normality. I don't feel the same at all, like I am having to get to know a new me. I know I haven't changed deep down but my capacity for pleasure and natural human connection are nil, which were previously my fortes. This makes me feel totally trapped because none of my symptoms exhibit external signs which is both a curse and a blessing. I lack expressive ability, in my tone of voice and facially which also makes it nigh on impossible to communicate the severity of the condition and subsequent depth of my despair. I've tried to talk to friends and therapists about it but I always find the conversation stirring a bunch of misunderstandings which results in a frustrating standstill with undermining, patronizing and worst of all trivializing conclusions being drawn like 'it's probably just psychological, mate', 'try to get some air, do things you love, take your mind off it' and 'just try not to worry about it'. Then not long later, though unannounced, it seems they have decided that I'm probably back to normal; I know this because they don't ask about my wellbeing and expect the most from me. Yet sometimes I am desperately seeking some TLC and simply cannot find the means get it. I do not need merely a quick heart-to-heart, I need some kind of extended treatment plan, or at least regular checkups that I'm okay. From a social perspective, I feel like I'm presenting an inadequate, unrepresentative version of myself and the disturbing thing is people buy it. The result is further isolation and confusion.
This is my first experience of drug abuse. I thought I'd picked one that doesn't tend to lead down the path of destruction yet it seems I was wrong. But I do ponder the possibility that though the road ahead is long and hard, perhaps it may actually be a journey of transformation and rebirth?
Did I take it to disguise my pains or to express my joys? Was it the easy solution either way or was my recklessness daring and bold, was it exactly what I wanted but feared I didn't dare to chance - so have I entered into this predicament in weakness or through strength? /// Have I deceived myself and betrayed those who care most about me, or was it the substance that manipulated my good judgement? /// Am I destined to a lifetime of despair, or have I extinguished the flame that kindles desire and entered a new kind of peace I am yet to realize?
As you can see I have many questions. Does anyone know where I might find some answers? Or have answers of their own? First and foremost I am seeking direction and support.
If TL;DR then my response is that my post is just as valuable even if it isn't read for the ventilation is cathartic.
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8bittrip, Anti depressants are the answer, in my case at least.
Had severe derealization after MDMA, and anhedonia. Though i had it before MDMA, it got way worse. No emotions at all, disconnected from people.
Went on a combination of Zoloft + Nortriptyline, can now feel emotions again, and basically back to normal. I could tell the change when i listened to music, it hit me emotionally again like before anhedonia.
Had severe derealization after MDMA, and anhedonia. Though i had it before MDMA, it got way worse. No emotions at all, disconnected from people.
Went on a combination of Zoloft + Nortriptyline, can now feel emotions again, and basically back to normal. I could tell the change when i listened to music, it hit me emotionally again like before anhedonia.
Were the anhedonia and DR gone after quitting AD's? I'm in the same case, had absolute 0 emotions, interrests, and so on, on Sertralin (Zoloft) I feel absolute normal again, but I'm still scared to fall into this state again when I quit, could you tell us maybe more about your treatment?
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So the last week for me has been a bit of a bitch for intrusive thoughts https://healdove.com/mental-health/Intrusive-Thoughts-and-Feelings-with-Anxiety-States
Thought this site might be helpful for anyone else.
Thought this site might be helpful for anyone else.
Personally i think MDMA induced depression is when a person is genetically vulnerable to depression. Considering millions of people can use MDMA without getting a prolonged depression, in people who use it reasonably, and still get depressed/ or worsening of it, then they need to stay on medication, i believe.
Each time i try going off meds i go back to that dead inside feeling.
Each time i try going off meds i go back to that dead inside feeling.
Hm…I had light depression and sometimes also Derealisation before LTC, but I never felt dead inside before. And the Derealisation only occurred under extreme stressful condition and disappeared after the situation calmed itself. And during this light depressions I still had feelings, they were mostly melancholic but nothing that I couldn't get out in some way. I just wish this state of feeling dead inside will disappear, a life without any emotion or interests is not something I want to life with forever and I don't want to be in need for medication my whole life.
I tried Ibogaine, LSD and Shrooms, the Ibogaine brought some short term improvement, but the side effects were totally not worth it. LSD and shrooms helped once for about a week, then it was all the same before. But on the positive side, I took Sertraline about 6 months ago, and it made me totally numb and had nearly no positive effect, now it seems to help. I see this as an improvement in some way.
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