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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)

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you feel this emptyness you problably assume that you'll never gonna be the same and you have no idea how this thought can become a fuel to mantain this depression/depersonalization/LTC.

This. Unfortunately there is a lag between when you stop pouring fuel on the fire and when the fire actually goes out. I think this lag is probably more than a couple months for most people, but usually what happens is you manage to pour the fuel a little slower, and then a few months later you see improvement so you pour a little slower again, rather than just being able to stop pouring all at once which is very difficult.

There is indeed that biological/chemical component to an LTC, but the best thing we can do is try not to perpetuate it with rumination.
 
This. Unfortunately there is a lag between when you stop pouring fuel on the fire and when the fire actually goes out. I think this lag is probably more than a couple months for most people, but usually what happens is you manage to pour the fuel a little slower, and then a few months later you see improvement so you pour a little slower again, rather than just being able to stop pouring all at once which is very difficult.

There is indeed that biological/chemical component to an LTC, but the best thing we can do is try not to perpetuate it with rumination.

Thank you for saying this lol. I feel like too many people try to dismiss this thing as being fully 100% psychological when that couldn't be further from the truth.

I think the people that got better with meds it pretty much ended the LTC biologically. Problem is everyone is different and has different genetic makeup so meds that worked for some may not work for others.
 
Haha then I fall in both categories......my first symptoms of LTC happened so long ago I can't remember the date but I do remember that it hit me days after a roll in the form a panic attack....I've never been the same since which would put me in category one that being said I rolled again a month after that and I had the worst roll possible.....it wasn't even a roll it was just me basically trying to cling on to life through the course of the high........it's been a long time for me I am finally recovering and the last month I have felt the old feelings of truly living and loving life again....it's crazy to look back on what my life could have been if I didn't ever mess with MDMA but I know that I have learned so much enduring this LTC.....I am a better man and more focused on important things......you'll get better my friend guaranteed you will I know that because my LTC was as bad as it gets trust me.......I never felt sober, things looked like they were in a dreamlike or video game state....not like real life was, I had the worst tinnitus and brain zaps, anxiety that would make me feel like I was suffocating and on the verge of passing out, I felt in a constant state of tripping being tired but my brain also feeling super wired. I had brain fog like you couldn't believe like a thunderstorm was over my brain and not even a tiny ray of sun could penetrate. Couldnt keep boner for anything even when I desperately wanted to (sorry for tmi). Had basically no emotion including fear of death.....the thought of dying didn't scare me at all, I would have trouble speaking and doing anything cognitive.....multiple occasions where I felt like I was done for had no hope and felt psychotic. Never could sleep through a night and always clenched my jaws and grounded my teeth. My brain patterns were altered so greatly that only you people on here can understand because it's nothing like anything else out there. People around me claimed anxiety and depression saying they could relate and I always had to just agree even though I knew they weren't even coming close to the hell I was going through.......that's all I can come up with off the top my head about it but you get the point I had FULL BLOWN LTC every symptom you can think of I had......well guess what it heals and it gets good again. I have felt like a normal human being for the last month and it's the best.......don't give up on yourself ever you will come out it.....it's an LTC for a reason.....you will comedown after time.....for me it took a couple years(somewhere in between two and three). I am still not 100 percent yet but I'm so close that I know it's not far away......5 years from now we are all gonna be loving life so much.......just never do drugs again our minds are our most valuable possession treat them right..... doesn't matter what "category" you fall under....recovery will come
So inspiring, thanks man. So happy you are feeling better. You have face tingles and HPPD at all? I don't really have any DP/DR, but I do have some anxiety and racing/repeating thoughts... Not even bad thoughts.... But the little voice inside my head is ALWAYS going 100 mph lol.

You stay away from pharmaceuticals?
 
This! It took me a long time to actually go to sleep, without fear. Sometimes I have that underlying fear, but it deludes more and more with time. It's been 2 years from my LTC now.
Haha this is 100% me..... It's like I'm scared of sleeping.... Probably because of the zaps. Glad to know it gets better though. It's just hard when the tinnitus is going and my muscles are twitching. I might have a few years ahead of me..... Which I've accepted.

Fnono....if you're not afraid of benzo addiction.... Maybe try it for a couple weeks? you already have experience with diazepam for 30 days and had no issues.

How long do you folks think can you take melatonin and valerian for with no issues? I've taken 1/2mg melatonin and 300mg valerian the last 4 nights and its gotten me 5 hours or so a night.
 
Hey, it may sound a bit rash but I'm now on the 3rd day on 25mg Sertralin/day and feeling extremely better. It's like all the feelings are coming back for real. My cello skills are back again, a week ago I had troubles playing a simple piece and now I can play free again and I feel the sound again. I'm really happy now and never expected that I will feel again that way. Now I really don't understand why I resisted so hard on taking SSRI's.
Anyone made similar experiences?
 
Wow lucky!!! It really seems like SSRIs are hit or miss. For me they completely numbed my emotions which made me depressed. I think for me its more a dopamine rather than serotonin issue but I wonder what Cotcha thinks. I had to get off the SSRI I tried a while back.

Thats great though that might be the catalyst for your recovery by attacking the problem at the biological front. Hopefully the improvement continues for you and you will be back to your old self soon. Good luck. Seems like a really quick response and that should give you some 'momentum' in Cotchas words to push you forward.

I think with an SSRI it really depends on what receptors exactly get upregulated or downregulated. So for me maybe it wasn't the right ones.
 
Wow lucky!!! It really seems like SSRIs are hit or miss. For me they completely numbed my emotions which made me depressed. I think for me its more a dopamine rather than serotonin issue but I wonder what Cotcha thinks. I had to get off the SSRI I tried a while back.

Thats great though that might be the catalyst for your recovery by attacking the problem at the biological front. Hopefully the improvement continues for you and you will be back to your old self soon. Good luck. Seems like a really quick response and that should give you some 'momentum' in Cotchas words to push you forward.

I think with an SSRI it really depends on what receptors exactly get upregulated or downregulated. So for me maybe it wasn't the right ones.

I tried the same SSRI months before (I think in the 6th month of recovery) and it had also numbed me and the side effects were much worse so I quit them after a week. And the feeling didn't came back either.
It's different now, I wouldn't say totally different but this 6 months made a extreme difference. Maybe if it hasn't worked for you you just need to give it some more time.
A friend of mine has taken a SSRI for about a year, he also was taking MDMA but much more (sometimes about 10 pills a night) and fortunately he had no withdrawal symptoms from the SSRI, because he tapered it off very carefully. Surprisingly he actually lives a normal life, studies and is happy, which is still a mistery for me. He has a pill count of probably 300-400 pills at the age from 14-17 which is brutal. It really seems some people are very sensitive to the effects.
 
I tried the same SSRI months before (I think in the 6th month of recovery) and it had also numbed me and the side effects were much worse so I quit them after a week. And the feeling didn't came back either.
It's different now, I wouldn't say totally different but this 6 months made a extreme difference. Maybe if it hasn't worked for you you just need to give it some more time.
A friend of mine has taken a SSRI for about a year, he also was taking MDMA but much more (sometimes about 10 pills a night) and fortunately he had no withdrawal symptoms from the SSRI, because he tapered it off very carefully. Surprisingly he actually lives a normal life, studies and is happy, which is still a mistery for me. He has a pill count of probably 300-400 pills at the age from 14-17 which is brutal. It really seems some people are very sensitive to the effects.

Wait im confused lol. So right now is this your 2nd try on SSRIs and you react better this time?

I thought you said you were 3 days in right now and not 6 months. Did you try it initially 6 months ago but then quit early and then now you are trying it again but with results?

When I tried SSRI I had tried for 6 weeks on prozac and 2 weeks on lexapro. Both were really bad and I got off. I don't think I react well to serotonin at all.

5-HTP is also really bad for me
 
Wait im confused lol. So right now is this your 2nd try on SSRIs and you react better this time?

I thought you said you were 3 days in right now and not 6 months. Did you try it initially 6 months ago but then quit early and then now you are trying it again but with results?

When I tried SSRI I had tried for 6 weeks on prozac and 2 weeks on lexapro. Both were really bad and I got off. I don't think I react well to serotonin at all.

5-HTP is also really bad for me

Yes, it's my second time trying it. The first time (in the 6th month) I kept it up for about 1 week and then quit. And now I'm 3 days in again. Just to clarify.
I always reacted very well to 5-HTP, especially in the beginning of the LTC. Strange how we react so different.
 
I think for me its more a dopamine rather than serotonin issue but I wonder what Cotcha thinks. I had to get off the SSRI I tried a while back.

I think with an SSRI it really depends on what receptors exactly get upregulated or downregulated. So for me maybe it wasn't the right ones.

Its common for people to have a rough first couple of weeks on an SSRI - as time runs on some of the "bad" serotonin receptors might be desensitized faster than the "good" serotonin receptors, but the "bad" serotonin receptors can certainly get their fair share of stimulation for a while, but the "good" serotonin receptors are supposed to outpace the "bad" ones. This might not matter too much with some people. But ultimately the structure and function of the brain cells themselves is what matters, and the signaling that changes brain cells for the better is far downstream of serotonin receptors. In other words the real benefit of an SSRI is not some acute mood boost that most people are expecting from having more of their "happiness chemical", its from the brain cells responding to the increased serotonin signaling and changing their structure and function because serotonin signaling affects gene expression etc. So the benefits of SSRIs may not have as much to do with serotonin binding to serotonin receptors and altering neurotransmission acutely, but rather its probably more to do with serotonin receptors signaling to change brain cells fundamentally. Although that is specifically for what we know about depression, LTCs are pretty unusual lol.

I hope that makes sense. Essentially its common for people to feel worse for weeks on an SSRI but that's supposed to get better. How long was your trial and what med at what dose Socrilus?
 
Its common for people to have a rough first couple of weeks on an SSRI - as time runs on some of the "bad" serotonin receptors might be desensitized faster than the "good" serotonin receptors, but the "bad" serotonin receptors can certainly get their fair share of stimulation for a while, but the "good" serotonin receptors are supposed to outpace the "bad" ones. This might not matter too much with some people. But ultimately the structure and function of the brain cells themselves is what matters, and the signaling that changes brain cells for the better is far downstream of serotonin receptors. In other words the real benefit of an SSRI is not some acute mood boost that most people are expecting from having more of their "happiness chemical", its from the brain cells responding to the increased serotonin signaling and changing their structure and function because serotonin signaling affects gene expression etc. So the benefits of SSRIs may not have as much to do with serotonin binding to serotonin receptors and altering neurotransmission acutely, but rather its probably more to do with serotonin receptors signaling to change brain cells fundamentally. Although that is specifically for what we know about depression, LTCs are pretty unusual lol. I hope that makes sense. Essentially its common for people to feel worse for weeks on an SSRI but that's supposed to get better. How long was your trial and what med at what dose Socrilus?
Yea I know ideally its the neurogenesis effect that is responsible and not a direct serotonin thing. The SSRIs intensified the sexual issues I was having. Thankfully I didn't get the PSSD thing or whatever but still that was scary along with emotional numbing. I feel like I gave a fair trial for Lexapro 10 mg for 8 weeks and man that was horrible. I didn't improve at all on it and would often feel very spaced out, tired. Eventually I got off it and felt better. I absolutely hated the emotional blunting which was persistent on the SSRI whereas it would only come and go otherwise. I think it was overly stimulating the "bad" serotonin receptors. Apparantly Buspar stimulates 5HT 1A which stimulates cortisol+oxytocin so I'm curious if that would help potentially. Problem is does it cause prolactin levels to spike from the dopamine antagonization? I'm wondering which side would weigh out the other. I feel like some of us may have to look outside the "serotonin bubble" to solve the LTC biologically.
 
In my opinion 8 weeks is a fair trial but I bet you that dose was too high. Buspirone is still an interesting option, it's hard to say what effect it would have but activation of the 5-HT1A receptor is what's mediating a lot of antidepressants action anyways so I guess I don't see the need to bother with all the other receptors that have various side effects if 5-HT1A alone can cut it.

From what I recall it primarily antagonizes dopaminergic pre-synaptic autoreceptors, that is to say that blocking those autoreceptors will actually increase dopamine, but typically you have to achieve a high degree of dopamine receptor blockade to worry about prolactin issues anywho (like in schizophrenia where anti-psychotics are dosed to block more than 50% of dopamine receptors).

Considering people's success with SSRIs might be primarily mediated via activation of 5-HT1A, I would love to see what a selective 5-HT1A activator would do. It would be important to keep in mind that buspirone is a "partial" agonist though, meaning that it may only activate the receptor partially, and there might only be signaling through select few of the multitude of signaling cascades that the receptor could signal through with endogenous serotonin binding to 5-HT1A. Just to re-iterate, receptors can signal through different pathways depending on how the chemical is binding to the receptor - so buspirone could be different (or just more selective) in what pathways it causes 5-HT1A receptors to signal through compared to serotonin. It's still definitely worth a try though, I'd love to hear some experiences.

I do believe it's supposed to take a bit longer to work though.
 
Fuck, just read an article that SSRI can cause long term damage too, in detail reduced Tryptophan dexarboxylase activity, permanent sexual disfunction with reduced sperm count because of HPA-Axis disregulation and damaged sperm DNA and permanently reduced 5-HT1A receptor density.
Lol, the only thing that got me better could actually make it more worse. I think I will stick to high dosed curcumin, it's just so annoying, just want to be normal and happy without any meds like I was before this whole shit.
Curcumin actually increases BDNF too, regulates the HPA-Axis, reverses stress induced neurodegeneration, increases neurogenesis and neuroplasticy and so on.
I don't want to make another mistake like taking MDMA.
I'm just so angry right now ?
 
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So I took some 5htp about five days ago. 50mg pill. had a bad effect. Since then much less sleep, no appetite and increased anxiety. Hoping this wears off...
 
Fuck, just read an article that SSRI can cause long term damage too, in detail reduced Tryptophan dexarboxylase activity, permanent sexual disfunction with reduced sperm count because of HPA-Axis disregulation and damaged sperm DNA and permanently reduced 5-HT1A receptor density.

Care to share the source? I would personally stick with the SSRIs for a while myself. I really wouldn't worry about "damage" from SSRIs, especially not that particular information if its from some news-ish article, that stuff is just so sensationalist. There are so many "all natural" people out there that anything anti-medication gets eaten up left and right. The post SSRI sexual dysfunction is the only real concern and even that is fairly rare. But I would bet that the benefits outweigh the risks. It's important to not just measure the harm of side effects from a medication, but to also consider the condition itself that you're trying to treat.
 
Care to share the source? I would personally stick with the SSRIs for a while myself. I really wouldn't worry about "damage" from SSRIs, especially not that particular information if its from some news-ish article, that stuff is just so sensationalist. There are so many "all natural" people out there that anything anti-medication gets eaten up left and right. The post SSRI sexual dysfunction is the only real concern and even that is fairly rare. But I would bet that the benefits outweigh the risks. It's important to not just measure the harm of side effects from a medication, but to also consider the condition itself that you're trying to treat.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI-bedingte_sexuelle_Dysfunktion

It's this german article they say that a 2 or 4 week treatment with SSRI in young age (in rats) result in a strong and permanent reduction of Tryptophan-Hydroxylase in the Dorse-Cores and a reduction of SERT in the Cortex.
 
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