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MDMA & Oxytocin

tonaros

tonaros

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Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
142
Hey all, I posted this in the Ecstasy forum, but it didn't get many replies... then I noticed this forum, and realized I probably posted it in the wrong place. :\ Or maybe it's just not as interesting to everyone else as it is to me... but anyways:

All I ever hear about Ecstasy is how it affects your Serotonin receptors. But when I first heard about Oxytocin and what it does, the first thing I thought was "OH, now I get it." I wondered how Serotonin could be solely responsible for making music better, dancing easier, being open, and all the things that Ecstasy does.

If you didn't know,

The illicit party drug MDMA (ecstasy) may increase feelings of love, empathy and connection to others by stimulating Oxytocin activity via activation of Serotonin 5HT1A receptors, if initial studies in animals apply to humans.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en..._uids=17383105

Oxytocin is the all-purpose LOVE chemical. It is the chemical that constantly reminds you of your infinite, unconditional love for your children ("Nothing you could ever do could ruin our friendship"). It is more active in young childhood ("Ecstasy makes me feel like a kid again"). It promotes breastfeeding ("Thanks for the lollypop, it's AMAZING"). Oxytocin is released when hugging someone for 20 seconds... really, just go read the Wikipedia article. I don't understand why this isn't researched more often than Serotonin.

Discuss.
 
There was a thread on this when the article was published.

I remember commenting along the lines - possibly (only a theory) oxytocin effects are responsible for the magic and subsequent "loss of magic" that some users feel.

I.e most people find it impossible to simulate their first few experiences 100%.

Possibly (again this is just me speculating) MDMAs effects on oxytocin are the first ones to quickly build tolerance. From then on the 5ht & dopamine still provide a very pleasant experience but without that special component. [?]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=311655&highlight=oxytocin

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=325809&highlight=oxytocin
 
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i was wondering the same thing, maybe oxytocin's "opposite" vasopressin lowers tolerance to oxytocin?
 
Hopefully Dondante will appear in this thread and share a few interesting points about MDMA's interaction with oxytocin receptors. Very interesting stuff.
 
MDMA does not interact with oxytocin receptors. MDMA causes the release of massive amounts of serotonin (5-HT), which then binds to brain 5-HT1A receptors, the activation of which causes oxytocin neurons to produce and release oxytocin.
 
5-HT2 said:
MDMA does not interact with oxytocin receptors. MDMA causes the release of massive amounts of serotonin (5-HT), which then binds to brain 5-HT1A receptors, the activation of which causes oxytocin neurons to produce and release oxytocin.
Click to expand...

Have you read anything in regard to 5-HT2A causing Oxytocin release?
 
My wife had a daughter recently and when we got home I was standing "chroming" off her head and started peaking. It was incredible the loving bonding feeling was intoxicating/inebriating to the point that I had to sit down to deal with it. It was like the loving feeling of MDMA but so clean.

I have since learned that oxytocin is secreted in the oil from the infant forehead.

I don't see baby chroming really taking off though due to the seasonal availability of the substance.
 
Placebo effect. Or rather, the beautiful feeling of fatherhood. Oxytocin does not cross the BBB afaik.
 
^ oh yeah you may be right, it's something in the pheromones which produces oxytocin, will post back if i find it
 
Oxytocin is destroyed in the gastrointestinal tract, and therefore must be administered by injection or as nasal spray. Oxytocin has a half-life of typically about three minutes in the blood. Oxytocin given intravenously does not enter the brain in significant quantities - it is excluded from the brain by the blood-brain barrier.
 
>>
Have you read anything in regard to 5-HT2A causing Oxytocin release?>>

Well, the original article focuses on oxytocin release mediated by 5ht1a.

ebola
 
Just to clarify I wasn't meaning to suggest MDMA might act directly on oxytocin receptors (I don't know of any research that suggests it does but would be very interested if there was any)

I should have worded my speculation better. I wonder if the downstream or induced release of oxytocin is what makes that "magic" or loss of and possibly through some unknown means tolerance to this effect rises rapidly [faster than the 5ht(not involved with oxytocin), dopamine & general stimulant type effects]

[?]
 
^ I would guess that the loss of magic is due to the SE, DA, NE levels going out of whack (it seems like there's a 'window' for these levels to synchronize together that produce the 'magic' associated with MDMA).

A friend told me about some research this summer, I'll ask him to say something...I could have misinterpreted maybe... :) :\
 
the same dose that gets to the real 'magic' likely also seems to fry the neurotransmitter systems to enough of a degree that it can no longer produce this state

whether this is permanent or is restorable (over time and nutrient support, et al) is an interesting question
 
samadhi_smiles said:
^ I would guess that the loss of magic is due to the SE, DA, NE levels going out of whack (it seems like there's a 'window' for these levels to synchronize together that produce the 'magic' associated with MDMA).

A friend told me about some research this summer, I'll ask him to say something...I could have misinterpreted maybe... :) :\
Click to expand...

No you didn't misinterpret ;) I thank our anonymous sources in the scientific community for this fascinating tidbit of information ;)
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
the same dose that gets to the real 'magic' likely also seems to fry the neurotransmitter systems to enough of a degree that it can no longer produce this state
Click to expand...
huh? what are you talking about? there is no evidence that mdma is neurotoxic to humans, there is evidence however that humans do not suffer the same neurotoxic damage as mice

maybe the real cause of losing the magic is because the 5ht2a receptors downregulate (and they are VERY hard to upregulate, even some antagonists downregulate them)
i cerainly think its because of receptor downregulation
 
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