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MDMA & MDA Cross Tolerance and Hangover

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hesitant_user

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Nov 22, 2011
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Hey guys, I'm giving up on MDMA for a while due to the hangovers and slight loss of magic. I want to try MDA for the first time soon as recently found a source. I hear MDA and MDMA have no cross tolerance despite being so similar.

My question is, should i expect a shitty hangover due to my past mdma use (moderate) if it's my first time trying MDA?

I'm hoping their lack of cross tolerance means a lack of crossover in the hangover, if that makes sense.
 
im almost 90% sure there is a cross tolerance beetween the 2 also MDA is alot more intense in my experience and the come down is alot harsher but to me i was not deppressed like a mdma come down i was just more tired from rolling extremely hard for like 6-7 hours loool
 
I'm sure that they share very much of the same action while each having some unique action.

You're devinitley not going to get the same affect out of MDA as if you've never been taking the MDMA. Just like neither of these are as good if you abuse amphetamine beforehand or meth beforehand.


I've actually done what you are suggesting and it does work and is better than using mdma back to back as far as having a good roll and keeping tolerance lower, alternating between the two. but the hangovers will be compounded.


kind of like asking if you abuse MDMA and then methamp, will you not get bad hangovers. they are going to compound. amphetamines like these are pretty harsh if used heavily.
 
There in fact is not a cross-tolerance between the two (source: Shulgin, Pihkal, they did tests, people took MDMA for 4 days in a row until there was no effect, then took MDA and it worked) You will feel drained though after MDA.
 
Synaesthesia242 said:
There in fact is not a cross-tolerance between the two (source: Shulgin, Pihkal, they did tests, people took MDMA for 4 days in a row until there was no effect, then took MDA and it worked) You will feel drained though after MDA.
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besides the synthesis, everything else is just an anecdote in those books.

There was no real scientific work done on the pharmacology in shulgins work in those books. His opinions on tolerance and mechanism were just guesses at that point. Look at the research of david nichols. This is real tolerance/pharmacology/mechanism type science,. pharmacology is too complex to make an assumption on cross tolerance whether or not shulgin says he rolled after abusing mdma then taking mda.
 
They're both serotonin releasers. They both act on the 5HT receptors. How could there not be a tolerance?

Perhaps it's due to the slight difference in action on the receptor, and MDA's potency apparently being higher that it overcomes any mild tolerances?
 
They're both serotonin releasers. They both act on the 5HT receptors. How could there not be a tolerance?
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Because it's all a bit more complex than that. They have different actions and work on slightly different sub-groups of 5-HT which all causes different downstream effects on other systems. All it takes is slightly different effects on different cells to change the way those communicate with other cells (perhaps DA/NE) to completely change the overall way that the brain is functioning. The thing we 'feel' is the way in which our neurons are communicating hence how it's possible that they're not cross tolerant.
 
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i'm sorry but they have to be cross tolerant in some way. i would bet my life on it but don't want to go digging into nichols papers to to cite on this thread which will probably be ignored. Im sure they are less cross toleant than repeat dosing of either but c'mon.

Its like saying AMP and meth are not cross tolerant.

sorry we can't cite any concrete facts, use some common sense on this one.
 
they both have the same mechanism of action (just with mda being far more potent as a psychedelic), almost certainly bind to the exactly the same pockets in the receptors in a very similar fashion, both release monoamines in the same proportion and both deplete your serotonin reserves (which aren't magically refilled when you try to deplete them even more with a different compound). so there's logically no way that there's no cross tolerance between the two. i'm sure you'll get some psychedelic and stoning effects when taking mda after mdma, but i don't see how you could get a full mda experience when your tolerance to mdma wouldn't give you a full roll.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Its like saying AMP and meth are not cross tolerant.

sorry we can't cite any concrete facts, use some common sense on this one.
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This is pretty much my mind right now. How much cross tolerance, who knows. But really, there will be some.
 
jamielovesmary said:
im almost 90% sure there is a cross tolerance beetween the 2 also MDA is alot more intense in my experience and the come down is alot harsher but to me i was not deppressed like a mdma come down i was just more tired from rolling extremely hard for like 6-7 hours loool
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There is NO CROSS TOLERANCE -- shulgin proved it empirically with definitive chemicals -- 6 days of MDMA (120-160 mg/day) last day of MDMA administration no effect -- even zero pupil dilation-- on next day MDA dose showed normal response
 
LucidSDreamr said:
i'm sorry but they have to be cross tolerant in some way. i would bet my life on it but don't want to go digging into nichols papers to to cite on this thread which will probably be ignored. Im sure they are less cross toleant than repeat dosing of either but c'mon.

Its like saying AMP and meth are not cross tolerant.

sorry we can't cite any concrete facts, use some common sense on this one.
Click to expand...


"Tolerance studies also support differences in mechanisms of action. In one study, MDMA was consumed at 9:00 AM each day for almost a week (120 milligrams the first day and 160 milligrams each subsequent day) and by the fifth day there were no effects from the drug except for some mydriasis. And even this appeared to be lost on the sixth day. At this point of total tolerance, there was consumed (on day #7, at 9:00 AM) 120 milligrams of MDA and the response to it was substantially normal with proper chronology, teeth clench, and at most only a slight decrease in mental change. A complete holiday from any drug for another 6 days led to the reversal of this tolerance, in that 120 milligrams of MDMA had substantially the full expected effects. The fact that MDMA and MDA are not cross-tolerant strengthens the argument that they act in different ways, and at different sites in the brain. "

- Alexander Shulgin PIHKAL entry #109
 
LucidSDreamr said:
besides the synthesis, everything else is just an anecdote in those books.

There was no real scientific work done on the pharmacology in shulgins work in those books. His opinions on tolerance and mechanism were just guesses at that point. Look at the research of david nichols. This is real tolerance/pharmacology/mechanism type science,. pharmacology is too complex to make an assumption on cross tolerance whether or not shulgin says he rolled after abusing mdma then taking mda.
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SO you are basically calling Shulgin a liar -- read entry 109 in PIHKAL -- Shulgin explicitly identifies a tolerance test and describes the protocol.-- He was not describing himself
 
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