MDMA & Ileostomies

[pequeño toro]

Alright.

So, about 3 months ago, I had a surgical procedure that created a temporary ileostomy. Long story short, a loop of small intestine has been brought out to the surface of my abdomen, and bodily waste is collected in a pouch I wear against my skin.

It wasn't a very fun summer.

I still have the ostomy, but I'm back on my feet, and am curious if anyone knows what would happen if I were to take MDMA while I have this ostomy. Would it even work, seeing as a portion of my small intestine, and all of my large, is cut off? Is it safe? People with ileostomies have to be careful about getting dehydrated, and there's about a 2 hour turnaround from when I eat to when my guts get moving.

Advice/Experience is greatly appreciated. I'd just like to know if this is something I can do in moderation, or if I'm better off leaving it until after the reversal.

 

[Bearlove]

Hi there, Sounds like you have had a rough time but I'm pleased your feeling better now.

If you check against any interactions with your medication and stay properly hydrated then I can't see any problem with taking MDMA. I would be careful about the setting you are in though and maybe a calmer setting with good friends would be the best thing.

 

[pequeño toro]

Thanks for the fast reply! It was a pretty lame summer, but I figure things could have been a lot worse, so I'm just trying to roll with it... bad pun.

I'm not on any meds right now, and am pretty good about keeping hydrated/getting my sodium. I was planning on going to a show with a few of my best friends, who are all aware of my situation, and would keep an eye on me.

 

[sm7125]

Hey! I don't have one, but my brother did. One thought/question/suggestion I had, which may expose my ignorance, but I'll ask anyway in the spirit of harm reduction, or maybe it's simply in the spirit of helping to make sure a BlueLighter has a fun, comfortable roll.

I don't know how often you have to change the pouch, especially if you ate earlier in the day, or are drinking more to stay hydrated. I've never seen, nor changed a pouch. I believe it's fairly simple, but important to get 'right', or there could be some issues, some of which could potentially be "embarrassing". So, if you think you will have to empty the pouch or change it at some point during your roll, you might want to make sure someone that is with you knows how, so they can help you. Depending on how MDMA effects you, I know for me, sometimes I can't get my eyes to stay still for a second, making it incredibly difficult to do stuff. Making sure a pouch is secured properly seems to me like it would be a pretty tedious task whilst rollin balls.

Just a thought. Take it or leave it.

I hope you have fun!!!

 

[Bearlove]

^You had the exact same concerns as me - that's why I suggested a calmer atmosphere with good friends. You should also bear in mind the often 'bull headed' security at events and be ready to explain what it is / what it is used for - just to save yourself/friends any problems at the door.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Um, am I really the only one that is concerned at all?
True harm reduction, in my opinion, means telling this OP NOT to go forward.
If you can't wait until your intestines are re-connected, you have your priorities messed up.

Allow me to indicate that MDMA works on the nerves in the brain that connect the smooth muscle of your intestines!
Serotonin is a chemical release by cells in your intestinal wall when food irritates it. The serotonin causes the smooth muscle to contract and then it is reabsorbed.

There is a rhythm to this muscle contraction, of course.
Did you know that when surgeons perform procedures like yours, they always know there is a possibility that the bowel will NEVER contract correctly again?

That's right - they 'wait to see if it works again'.
In some cases, the colostomy is a life-time companion.

The serotonin nerves in the brain comprise the most elaborate and dense of ALL neurotransmitter systems.
That means that the 'brain-gut' connection is critical - it is wired to the entire brain.
More than this, it has a direct and profound influence upon blood flow to different brain regions.

People with migraines are suspected to suffer from dysregulation of the serotonin network.
Irritable Bowel Syndrome is a rather severe condition - which often results in HORRIBLE psychological symptoms.
And former MDMA users have been shown to experience severe disruptions in blood circulation in the brain for MONTHS.

Hmm...

Maybe, just maybe - its NOT a good idea to take a drug like MDMA right now.
You are not just endangering the healing process and increasing the risk of lifelong digestive disability...but you may also be putting your brain in danger.

The brain-gut connection is a mysterious thing...two nervous systems tied together.
I wonder, have you been a user of MDMA or other psychedelics for a while?
If so - they MAY BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR INTESTINAL PROBLEM.

I have seen multiple examples of this...
Oh well, you might just be a troll anyways.
This thread is kind of hard to believe.

 

[pequeño toro]

No, not a troll, but thank you for your assistance in 'helping' a curious member of the community. I am thankful for your concern, and am grateful for your input, but was a little put off by your delivery. Please do not assume that I haven't done my homework, and do not care about my body. I'm not sure how my guyts might react with it's new 'surgical enhancements', and there if very little information on this specific topic, which is why I posted here. I do know that my ileostomy is not permanent, and I'm pretty sure my guts contract all the way along, if my mucous-y BM's are anything to go by.

I am not, as a matter of fact, a frequent user of MDMA. Prior to my diagnosis of Crohn's, I had used MDMA twice. After that, maybe 4 times? Aside from that, the only other drugs I've used are ones that have been prescribed to me.

To the other posters, I change the bag every 3-4 days. Emptying it isn't an issue - there's an opening at the bottom that makes that process quite simple. I don't have to change the whole bag every time it starts to fill up. I had thought of taking Immodium (something my GI has recommended in daily life, if I'm going to be somewhere I can't get to a bathroom as regularly as I might need), and changing the bag the morning of, so the adhesive seal is as fresh as it can be. I also have a belt that I wear when sleeping, or doing more rigorous physical activities.

 

[Bearlove]

Um, am I really the only one that is concerned at all?
True harm reduction, in my opinion, means telling this OP NOT to go forward.
If you can't wait until your intestines are re-connected, you have your priorities messed up.

Allow me to indicate that MDMA works on the nerves in the brain that connect the smooth muscle of your intestines!
Serotonin is a chemical release by cells in your intestinal wall when food irritates it. The serotonin causes the smooth muscle to contract and then it is reabsorbed.

There is a rhythm to this muscle contraction, of course.
Did you know that when surgeons perform procedures like yours, they always know there is a possibility that the bowel will NEVER contract correctly again?

That's right - they 'wait to see if it works again'.
In some cases, the colostomy is a life-time companion.

The serotonin nerves in the brain comprise the most elaborate and dense of ALL neurotransmitter systems.
That means that the 'brain-gut' connection is critical - it is wired to the entire brain.
More than this, it has a direct and profound influence upon blood flow to different brain regions.

People with migraines are suspected to suffer from dysregulation of the serotonin network.
Irritable Bowel Syndrome is a rather severe condition - which often results in HORRIBLE psychological symptoms.
And former MDMA users have been shown to experience severe disruptions in blood circulation in the brain for MONTHS.

Hmm...

Maybe, just maybe - its NOT a good idea to take a drug like MDMA right now.
You are not just endangering the healing process and increasing the risk of lifelong digestive disability...but you may also be putting your brain in danger.

The brain-gut connection is a mysterious thing...two nervous systems tied together.
I wonder, have you been a user of MDMA or other psychedelics for a while?
If so - they MAY BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR INTESTINAL PROBLEM.

I have seen multiple examples of this...
Oh well, you might just be a troll anyways.
This thread is kind of hard to believe.

SITE UPDATE - Harm Reduction = Do not take drugs. Close site?

I can not understand and do not appreciate your almost 'aggressive' post here?

 

[BIGsherm7272]

Um, am I really the only one that is concerned at all?
True harm reduction, in my opinion, means telling this OP NOT to go forward.
If you can't wait until your intestines are re-connected, you have your priorities messed up.

Allow me to indicate that MDMA works on the nerves in the brain that connect the smooth muscle of your intestines!
Serotonin is a chemical release by cells in your intestinal wall when food irritates it. The serotonin causes the smooth muscle to contract and then it is reabsorbed.

There is a rhythm to this muscle contraction, of course.
Did you know that when surgeons perform procedures like yours, they always know there is a possibility that the bowel will NEVER contract correctly again?

That's right - they 'wait to see if it works again'.
In some cases, the colostomy is a life-time companion.

The serotonin nerves in the brain comprise the most elaborate and dense of ALL neurotransmitter systems.
That means that the 'brain-gut' connection is critical - it is wired to the entire brain.
More than this, it has a direct and profound influence upon blood flow to different brain regions.

People with migraines are suspected to suffer from dysregulation of the serotonin network.
Irritable Bowel Syndrome is a rather severe condition - which often results in HORRIBLE psychological symptoms.
And former MDMA users have been shown to experience severe disruptions in blood circulation in the brain for MONTHS.

Hmm...

Maybe, just maybe - its NOT a good idea to take a drug like MDMA right now.
You are not just endangering the healing process and increasing the risk of lifelong digestive disability...but you may also be putting your brain in danger.

The brain-gut connection is a mysterious thing...two nervous systems tied together.
I wonder, have you been a user of MDMA or other psychedelics for a while?
If so - they MAY BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR INTESTINAL PROBLEM.

I have seen multiple examples of this...
Oh well, you might just be a troll anyways.
This thread is kind of hard to believe.

Oh yea I'm sure that MDMA or other psychedelics caused this to happen to him 8)

Fuck-Off

 

[Bearlove]

SITE UPDATE - Harm Reduction = Do not take drugs. Close site?

I can not understand and do not appreciate your almost 'aggressive' post here?

I have just popped on to apologise for my post yesterday - I was really struggling to get my point across and came across as a dickhead - the risks that your described are real and your concerns are also valid. I still think that your post was pretty aggressive though.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Wow - gee thanks Bearlove.
Seriously, it is cool of you to do that.
I was planning on getting all worked up and going on one of my tirades again. :D

Now you have gone and ruined it...
Oh well.

I guess I should follow your example and admit that YES I was aggressive, almost out of nowhere this time.
Hmm...

How do I explain?
How about this...

Intestinal dysfunction can happen with stimulants like cocaine, meth, and even MDMA.
More than dysfunction - intestinal failure is possible, and this is life-threatening.

More than this, many of the symptoms of acute MDMA reactions involve the intestines - including the dreaded hyponatremia that has claimed some lives. Its what we hear about the most often.
But this electrolyte imbalance STARTS IN THE GUT.
And it can happen without drinking FLUIDS.

Not only have I read it, but I experienced it.
And let me tell you - OH MY GOD it HURT.
It felt like I had eaten a BAG OF ROCKS...and they just kept getting heavier and heavier...

The hyponatremia never really developed into severe edema on the brain, but it came close.
I could see the swelling of fluids on my face, neck, hands.

But worse than the swelling, worse than the migraine I later developed...
Was the PAIN in my intestines.

Some might assume that my intestinal problems are the result of the stupid enema I gave myself while rolling - this can be found in my only thread. But my intestinal problems did not occur in the large intestines.
No, the intestinal failure occurred at the TOP of the GI.

Right below my stomach, the swelling was SO intense that I thought my liver could BURST!
In fact, I believe intestinal failure may be a major cause of LIVER TOXICITY from MDMA.
The pressure against the system is unreal...

In addition to massive levels of cortisol, which helps break down serotonin in the brain, the intestines draw water out of fat cells and food. The resulting change in mass is SO severe that digestion is FORCED to happen.
Even though the smooth muscle is NOT contracting anymore due to SERT damage in the brain.

The body is forcing the digestion to happen, even though the brain wants the intestinal wall to be PARALYZED.
This, in my opinion, is serotonin syndrome.

Extreme abdominal pain and increased bowel sounds are among the signs of serotonin syndrome - but I believe them to be the primary cause. After all, contraction of the intestines is the MAIN purpose for serotonin.
And digestion is the main cause of serotonin activity in the brain...

I have spent a whole YEAR recovering function in my intestines as a result of what happened.
I lost 30 pounds in the first month, then lived on a liquid diet for 2 months.
Only around 6 months did I start eating whatever I wanted again!
And only now, at 11 months can I do so without any real consequence.

So, this is quite a personal issue for me.
It is astounding to me that others don't even get it, either.
Where do they all think the 'anxiety' of bad comedowns comes from?
From continued serotonin activity! Which comes from digestion!

The intestines are the source of joy when rolling - anyone who has taken a shit or even pissed while rolling knows how intense and great it feels. And sex...

But the intestines are also the source of pain during acute reactions - and not all deaths are caused by 'water intoxication'. I firmly believe that many of the people we have lost to MDMA were NOT guzzling water irresponsibly.
But when they get to the hospital they are indeed found to have too much water in their bloodstream, so SPECULATION takes over. Even at the professional level, doctors do NOT understand the nature of the brain-gut connection and how drugs affect it!

So we fail to hear that MDMA can cause HYPONATREMIA and INTESTINAL FAILURE and LIVER TOXICITY without excessive water intake. Even the massive anxiety, fast heart-rate, strokes...all these other events I believe can be linked to activity in the gut.
How do I really go about convincing other drug users of this?

No, I don't just base this on my experience either.
I have met several other BLers with similar intestinal discomfort during recovery, including sensitivity that feels very awkward.

I have two close friends with SURGERY resulting from such events.
One took mushrooms regularly as a teenager - they were easy to get.
He once had a bad LSD trip too, but it was the mushrooms that caused his intestines to fail.

A few days after his last trip, when his intestines were finally starting to digest again - he felt DEATH was imminent.
He was SO sure that he wrote GOOD-BYE letters to family and friends!
He went to the hospital and they opened him up.
They found a section of small intestine that had kinked itself, so they cut it out.
They also found a section of large intestine with a stricture, or a narrow spot, which they left in.

It took him over a YEAR to live again.
He even stopped smoking weed due to the anxiety! This is saying a LOT, because this guy is one hell of a smoker now.
Five years later he still has discomfort and anxiety if he eats too poorly for days in a row.
And he isn't quite the same person, either.
Something about his personality is TOO laid back, like anxiety just NEVER HAPPENS to him EVER.

MUSHROOMS DESTROYED HIS INTESTINES AND NEARLY KILLED HIM.
So 'Bigsherm' can go 'fuck' himself

Moving on...
The next friend took shrooms and MDMA together once...and the next day - what do you know?
Massive anxiety, fever, and severe abdominal pain!
They took out his appendix.

Some users will write off both of these anecdotes that I am offering.
They will say, 'he was going to have appendicitis anyways'.
And who knows about the other guy...
But lets not jump to conclusions and blame the DRUGS.

There is NO question about it people - MDMA and mushrooms can damage the connection between the brain and the intestines. That is what the serotonin system is!

The smooth muscle lining the intestines is quite impressive, a larger smooth muscle system than any other in the body.
When it contracts it increases serotonin activity in the brainstem, which in healthy people has moderate effects on blood flow and brain chemistry.

When the brains SERT system is damaged, continued activity of the intestines RE-WIRES THE BRAIN.
This, in my humble opinion, is the leading cause of the 'recovery' process.
It is the GUT re-wiring the BRAIN.
That is why it changes people, and that is why it takes SO long.

So I highly recommend that this OP listen to my warning.
It is very very unwise to take a drug that uses the brain-gut circuitry while your intestines are no longer connected.
You may be fine now, but what about when the smooth muscle is reconnected?
How can you even know what the consequence will be?

Just wait until it is reconnected...don't come online hoping to find support for your irrational decision.
Because then you will find an irrational person like ME to post 'aggressively' about something quite personal to him.
Just saying

 

[severely etarded]

Intestinal dysfunction can happen with stimulants like cocaine, meth, and even MDMA.
More than dysfunction - intestinal failure is possible, and this is life-threatening.

I did not know failure was possible, it would be good to have a source of the info to read. I do know that these compounds and even others do affect intestines/bowel movement. They often relax smooth muscle tissue by constricting blood flow as far as I was aware. But I would love to see that intestinal failure occurs. I do know constipation results from withdrawl of many stimulants.

More than this, many of the symptoms of acute MDMA reactions involve the intestines - including the dreaded hyponatremia that has claimed some lives. Its what we hear about the most often.
But this electrolyte imbalance STARTS IN THE GUT.
And it can happen without drinking FLUIDS.

Not only have I read it, but I experienced it.
And let me tell you - OH MY GOD it HURT.
It felt like I had eaten a BAG OF ROCKS...and they just kept getting heavier and heavier...

The hyponatremia never really developed into severe edema on the brain, but it came close.
I could see the swelling of fluids on my face, neck, hands.


But worse than the swelling, worse than the migraine I later developed...
Was the PAIN in my intestines.

This is a self-diagnosis... This could actually be caused by a number of things.

Some might assume that my intestinal problems are the result of the stupid enema I gave myself while rolling - this can be found in my only thread. But my intestinal problems did not occur in the large intestines.
No, the intestinal failure occurred at the TOP of the GI.
Right below my stomach, the swelling was SO intense that I thought my liver could BURST!
In fact, I believe intestinal failure may be a major cause of LIVER TOXICITY from MDMA.
The pressure against the system is unreal...

Ya, enema is basically a medical procedure... You stick something up your ass(often when constipated) and squirt liquid in there to cleanse your colon... It puts some hydraullic pressure deep inside your intestines, I think even all the way in the small intestine.

In addition to massive levels of cortisol, which helps break down serotonin in the brain, the intestines draw water out of fat cells and food. The resulting change in mass is SO severe that digestion is FORCED to happen.
Even though the smooth muscle is NOT contracting anymore due to SERT damage in the brain.

Cortisol breaks down serotonin? Into what exactly? A reference would be nice. Also, many other compounds that do not work on the SERT, such as caffeine for instance, have a similar effect on smooth muscle tissue.

I know cortisol breaks down protein, but not serotonin? Can you show me some scientific evidence of this? A reference?

The body is forcing the digestion to happen, even though the brain wants the intestinal wall to be PARALYZED.
This, in my opinion, is serotonin syndrome.

Extreme abdominal pain and increased bowel sounds are among the signs of serotonin syndrome - but I believe them to be the primary cause.

...It would be nice to show scientific proof on how you reached your conclusions.

After all, contraction of the intestines is the MAIN purpose for serotonin.
And digestion is the main cause of serotonin activity in the brain...

Reference please? You are just connecting random dots... Tryptophan breakdown is the main cause for serotonin. Yes this is through digestion, but so is the intake of all nutrition... This has nothing to do with your bad enema...

I have spent a whole YEAR recovering function in my intestines as a result of what happened.
I lost 30 pounds in the first month, then lived on a liquid diet for 2 months.
Only around 6 months did I start eating whatever I wanted again!
And only now, at 11 months can I do so without any real consequence.


So, this is quite a personal issue for me.
It is astounding to me that others don't even get it, either.

Sounds like a bad enema...

Where do they all think the 'anxiety' of bad comedowns comes from?

From a chemical imbalance in the brain 8(

From continued serotonin activity! Which comes from digestion!

Digestion of tryptophan...

The intestines are the source of joy when rolling - anyone who has taken a shit or even pissed while rolling knows how intense and great it feels. And sex...

That's what happens when your senses are heightened. Things that feel good, feel amaaaaazzzzing :D

But the intestines are also the source of pain during acute reactions - and not all deaths are caused by 'water intoxication'. I firmly believe that many of the people we have lost to MDMA were NOT guzzling water irresponsibly.

A lot of deaths are caused by the rapid intake of several bottles of water, causing rapid swelling of cells and the brain, due to the occurring imbalance of electrolytes.




It probably isn't a good idea after intestinal surgery to do any drugs TBPH.

 

[Bearlove]

Wow - gee thanks Bearlove.
Seriously, it is cool of you to do that.
I was planning on getting all worked up and going on one of my tirades again. :D

Now you have gone and ruined it...
Oh well.

Not at all - I was completely out of order with my reply and I'm not ashamed to admit it (slightly embarrassed, yes). Thank you for your understanding and your follow up explanation. You say 'how can you convince other MDMA users' try including some links to back your claims up.

Now with your explanation of how MDMA is ingested / digested - whats about a different ROA / IV / Rectal? Same problems?

 

[HUNTERRR]

Did OP ever go through with this? Found this thread through a Google search sorry for brining old threads up

 

[sim324]

I messed up my GI tract with taking 20mg 4-HO-MIPT on a full stomach with a glass of water. I should have done alot more research before using it as I have done with other substances in the past. I have candida overgrowth and past mold exposure which causes inflammatory issues in body. Ingesting it was the biggest mistake in my life, praying that the intestinal issues will resolve and I dont have Crohn now. Hopefully the damaged part can be cut out and I can get my life back. Feeling really low energy lately which seems to progress daily, abdominal pains, weight loss, dont sleep properly. The powder burned the GI tract, really dangerous substance. I had done MDMA, 2-CB, Shrooms and a few other psychedelics with the chronic inflammatory response syndrome from mold and they caused no issues, but I really fucked up this time, thinking about it every day now.

 

[Lambda123]

I have try it. Rolling mdma with stoma beg attach on me. Nothing bad happen but I notice I cannot do it as same before surgery. Before surgery I can take 3 pills at most. After surgery I can only take 1 and half.