MDMA crystal lacking potency?

[Docta]

Safrole is the best precursor

How is safrole "best" I don't understand that comment? RE: >>MDP2P / PMK

HI think the MDMA and ecstasy these days is different because manufacturers are using a different synthesis route.

Interesting comment, can a destination change just by traveling via a different route.

Surly: 1-(benzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-N-methylpropan-2-amine (CAS Number: 42542-10-9) is still MDMA, and only the miner side-products and impurities change?

It’s the user that has memory of what was, not the chemical compound.

Maybe we fool ourselves because we’re easily fooled.

 

[-Guido-]

How is safrole "best" I don't understand that comment? RE: >>MDP2P / PMK




Interesting comment, can a destination change just by traveling via a different route.

Surly: 1-(benzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-N-methylpropan-2-amine (CAS Number: 42542-10-9) is still MDMA, and only the miner side-products and impurities change?

It’s the user that has memory of what was, not the chemical compound.

Maybe we fool ourselves because we’re easily fooled.

How is safrole "best" I don't understand that comment? RE: >>MDP2P / PMK




Interesting comment, can a destination change just by traveling via a different route.

Surly: 1-(benzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-N-methylpropan-2-amine (CAS Number: 42542-10-9) is still MDMA, and only the miner side-products and impurities change?

It’s the user that has memory of what was, not the chemical compound.

Maybe we fool ourselves because we’re easily fooled.

What if the MDMA back had more dextro-MDMA and less levo-MDMA? Maybe it was racemic or maybe some was straight dextro-MDMA?

 

[placebonaut]

there's an entire thread going over deep chemistry, published papers, precursors, synthesis routes and R v S etc, worth a read if you're interested.

 

[Docta]

What if the MDMA back had more dextro-MDMA and less levo-MDMA? Maybe it was racemic or maybe some was straight dextro-MDMA?

Yeah, there’s likely something in what you’re saying here. The very nature of the original MDP2P synthesis routes yielded equal quantities of the S- and R-enantiomers of MDMA (dextro/levo) with the racemates having different psychoactive effects and clearance rates. The current methods do often lean into enantioselective methods; I don’t think that’s entirely by choice owning to wider availability of let’s call them “chiral auxiliaries” as reagents dictating the end product be it (R)- or (S)-MDMA.

Certainly, food for thought, possibly we became so accustomed to that 50/50 racemic mixture a synergy between the psychoactive and some deeper brain pathway is at play, an unconscious implied bias. Makes me wonder if people who’ve only had MDMA produced over the previous decade or so are bias in favor of what’s produced today over that of the 90’s and early 2000’s.


This thread reminded me of a paper I read early last year that some may find interesting- Acute effects of R-MDMA, S-MDMA, and racemic MDMA

​

 

[nato23]

How is safrole "best" I don't understand that comment? RE: >>MDP2P / PMK




Interesting comment, can a destination change just by traveling via a different route.

Surly: 1-(benzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-N-methylpropan-2-amine (CAS Number: 42542-10-9) is still MDMA, and only the miner side-products and impurities change?

It’s the user that has memory of what was, not the chemical compound.

Maybe we fool ourselves because we’re easily fooled.

Okay if that’s your thinking then ketamine is just ketamine? It’s not.
Different stereoisomers and different ratio of R-mdma and S-MDMA.

Safrole is the best precursor and the correct synthesis route - it seems to produce the best MDMA, which I believe could be more R- MDMA than S-MDMA.

If you read the effects of just s-MDMA, it sounds like the effects of the stuff that we are getting these days.

 

[nato23]

What if the MDMA back had more dextro-MDMA and less levo-MDMA? Maybe it was racemic or maybe some was straight dextro-MDMA?

Yeah, there’s likely something in what you’re saying here. The very nature of the original MDP2P synthesis routes yielded equal quantities of the S- and R-enantiomers of MDMA (dextro/levo) with the racemates having different psychoactive effects and clearance rates. The current methods do often lean into enantioselective methods; I don’t think that’s entirely by choice owning to wider availability of let’s call them “chiral auxiliaries” as reagents dictating the end product be it (R)- or (S)-MDMA.

Certainly, food for thought, possibly we became so accustomed to that 50/50 racemic mixture a synergy between the psychoactive and some deeper brain pathway is at play, an unconscious implied bias. Makes me wonder if people who’ve only had MDMA produced over the previous decade or so are bias in favor of what’s produced today over that of the 90’s and early 2000’s.


This thread reminded me of a paper I read early last year that some may find interesting- Acute effects of R-MDMA, S-MDMA, and racemic MDMA

​

I definitely think the people who just think it’s nostalgia and that “MDMA is MDMA” argument.
I read that R was more psychedelic and produced more euphoria and empathy - and overall a more positive effect - they also found it wasn’t as neurotoxic as S-MDMA which seemed produce stimulation.
The synergy of perfect racemic MDMA is probably what we all remember.

I’ve heard they are still making some batches of MDMA with safrole, just not all of it because how cheap the alternatives are.

This is just all hypothetical and just what makes sense to me. I’m no chemist or scientist but I have a passion for psychoactive drugs.

 

[Docta]

Safrole is the best precursor and the correct synthesis route

“best” and “correct” I’m not sure what that means. In synthetic chemistry the preferred route is a compromise between: a synthesis with the least steps, yield and economy. You make an assumption that maybe clear in your mind without explaining yourself. Are you saying MDMA derived from MDP2P is superior? Because that statement my have some merit, but I'm not fully sold on the idea.

I’ve heard they are still making some batches of MDMA with safrole, just not all of it because how cheap the alternatives are.

I doubt anyone still uses Safrole when you can just order in Helional by the kilo at a fraction of the price, you get exactly the same MDP2P (prime precursor) from Helional that you get from Safrole. I can say with 100% certainty the MDP2P method is still in use. Thing is the alkylation of amines that you’re talking about don’t scale well, there for commercial super-labs tend to use other means.