MDMA and Piracetam dangerous?

[Professor Monkey]

Hi

I found out about Piracetam today and it sounds very interesting. After doing some reading about it though, i came across a thread (on here if I remember correctly) that says Piracetam "exerted a pronounced inhibitory effect on MAO A and MAO B activity":

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3137089

Now I'm not sure I completely understand what the abstract is saying and it seems like lots of people have taken MDMA and Piracetam together with no problems, but if MAO A is inhibited, doesn't this increase the chance of getting serotonin syndrome? I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before! (or if it has I couldn't find it).

 

[freehugs]

No, piracetam is one of the best nootropics that you can take. I highly recommend taking it before and after you roll, and I'm sure FirstBadComedown will post about its greatness :D

 

[Professor Monkey]

Surely anything that inhibits MAO A activity would be dangerous to combine with MDMA though? I'd love to try it but safety first, my friend got serotonin syndrome recently from acid and a sub threshold dose of dxm (for a cold) and i don't want to take any chances, it was pretty scary.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

DXM is a retarded drug, hands down.
Mixing it with ANYTHING is even more unbelievable, but acid?
Moving on...

The abstract clearly shows that only MAO in the hypothalamus and striatum are being investigated.
MAOIs that affect brain-wide systems are dangerous with MDMA and other serotonergic drugs.

Not only are they looking at two specific and small regions of the brain, but they show an INCREASE in MAO activity in the hypothalamus. Meaning that it will LOWER the potential for serotonin syndrome, or the damaging effects of high synaptic serotonin in this region of the brain.

A higher turnover of neurotransmitters in the hypothalamus is the result of increased MAO, and since the hypothalamus is the site of MDMAs powerful and dangerous effects piracetam will PROTECT the hypothalamus.
It is even shown to preferentially increase both serotonin and dopamine in the PFC, likely a result of the increase in hypothalamic MAO.

But it inhibits MAO A and B in the striatum.

Although Serotonin Syndrome is not well understood, I strongly suspect that its primary effects are derived at the hypothalamus, NOT the striatum. So in my honest opinion, Piracetam's effect on MAO in the striatum will have NO bearing on acute reactions such as SS. If anything it will make them LESS likely.

The ventral striatum is the location of the brain's major reward center, the nucleus acumbens.
The striatum contains dopamine neurons that are linked to reward-seeking behavior and addiction.
And a decrease in MAO in this structure would cause an increase in dopamine transmission.

An increase in hypothlamic MAO and inhibition in the striatum, combined with an increase of DA and 5HT in the higher brain...

Nope, sounds like a great combination for MDMA.
And neuroprotective to boot.

When neurotoxicity occurs and frontal lobe serotonin damage is profound, the increase in serotonin in the lower brain leads to the inhibition of dopamine in the striatum. Until the brain adapts there can be an ongoing suppression of central dopamine function - which has been documented up to THREE years abstinence!

I found Piracetam to be a wonderful PAUSE button on the re-wiring of my brain.
Other than discomfort during the first few days and perhaps some strong stimulation, I noticed no negative effects from taking it. I couldn't have been more pleased with its effects and I imagine it to be an amazing companion to MDMA.

But every time I stopped taking it the re-wiring, the suffering began anew.
So it was no cure.

But Serotonin Syndrome will never be attributed to piracetam.
And I would argue that a high enough dose would prevent or stop it.

 

[Professor Monkey]

Wow, that was a comprehensive reply, are you a doctor or something??
Seriously though, that's helped a lot, thanks for the replies! I've got some on order now, really looking forward to trying it, hopefully it will help with my depression and irritability, and music making!

Re the DXM, we were in France and he just got some over the counter cough medicine... he should have checked what was in it though, I don't think he'll be making the same mistake twice!

 

[iibansukii]

@First Bad Comedown

You answered a couple questions that I had about the MAO-A & MAO-B Inhibitors, but I actually have a couple more questions to ask about these things.

1. What is your thoughts about quercetin? It's apparently a MAO-B Inhibitor and also potentiates the effects of MDMA... I already bought piracetam so I will start taking them ASAP. I mean if quercetin is a MAO-B Inhibitor, why would people risk taking it before they roll??
2. If I do take Piracetam and/or quercetin for pre and post-load, would it be a bad idea to take 5-htp with it?? MAOI + 5-HTP = Serotonin Syndrome if I recall correctly.. Thank you for all the help!