• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

mCPP & other piperazines - Long-Term Effects

S

slippy sleeveen

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
558
I am making this post as both a warning and an inquiry.

My entire life, I have been both mentally and physically fairly healthy. For about ten years now, I have responsibly used MDMA and psychedelics mostly, with an occassional fray into weed and opiates, but very rarely. I have never once experienced any significant aftereffects from use of these substances.

I decided to try out some of the piperazines. mCPP and TFMPP to be exact. I used mCPP about 8 times in a 3 month period and TFMPP twice (in conjuction with mCPP). The effects were ok mostly, once very good, but during the onset I would feel a bit of panic each time. The TFMPP gave me a 5 hour long panic attack each time. I think that these substances somehow set something off in me that has left me open to anxiety.

I have not touched any of these substances for about a month and a half now, but I'm still experiencing anxiety atleast half of the day and I have a lot of trouble getting to sleep. The only thing I have done since then is one MDMA session. Not surprisingly, the MDMA cleared up my anxiety for three days but then it returned to where it was. The anxiety is pretty bad and I sometimes feel like I am going to seizure or die of irregular heart beat...which is irrational I know, but it seems real to me then. I also sometimes get really odd thought patterns, similar to what I got on mCPP, and will space out and forget what I was thinking about 30 seconds prior and why I am thinking of what I am thinking of now (if that makes any sense). I will go to the doctor if this keeps acting up but I think it might be slowly letting off.

I have seen these substances noted as panicogens in literature before and am just putting this out as a warning to anyone that is interested in trying them, if you have any history of anxiety disorders or even if you don't, these substances could possibly give them to you. I don't have any literature to back this up but only my personal experience.

Anyone else know why these substances might cause this? (BZP, mCPP, TFMPP) any of them? Just would like something that substantiates my warning is all.
 
Hmm... unfortunately I've got no insight for you. But I am extremely curious to see if anyone else reports the same thing, because I've recently come across a significant amount of mCPP and meOPP, and used them twice. Both times were a decent experience, not quite as good as I expected from the positive reports but enjoyable nonetheless, and more psychedelic than I expected. I've not found any lasting aftereffects at all, personally.

I know you made this thread primarily about mCPP, but do you think it could have been the TFMPP that set off your anxiety instead? I ask because I remember when you posted about the panic attack experience with it, and you mentioned, if I recall correctly, that some anxiety from it lasted for days.
 
You are correct Xorkoth, the TFMPP might of been what has caused this, although after browsing pillreports and looking at people's reaction to taking mCPP pills (although unknowingly), some of them have similar experiences. Perhaps I should of renamed the title of this thread to Piperazine Long-Term Effects. One of the reasons I figure mCPP might be the cause is due to how cold I feel when the anxiety hits... people around me could be burning up, and I'm freezing and chattering my teeth...which is similar to what happened to me on mCPP - even when it was enjoyable.

Doses for me:

First time: 65mg mcPP with 70mg TFMPP
Second: 30mg mCPP/30mg mCPP +1 hour in, 20mg TFMPP +5 hours.
Third through Last: 60-80mg mCPP.
 
I have a mild to moderate anxiety disorder, so i am not rushing to try any of these drugs. I am however interested in the effects of pfpp which is reported to have more of a "downer" quality to it. Is pfpp also considered a "panicogen"? I also occasionally take trazadone for sleep and i know that some of that is metabolized into mCCP in the body. I dont feel any panic from that but then again there are all sorts of other factors at play there.
 
i tried a 60mg dose of mcpp last nite and found that it was quite mild in comparision to Bzp or tfmpp.i noticed no real increase in heart rate,no anxiety(which i sometimes experience from amphetamines)and apart from being unable to sleep for 12 hours i thought that it was quite pleasant!!!
As did the other 2 test subjects who indulged with me.
Maybe its the setting in which you are consuming these products that is contributing to your anxiety???
 
It seems like anxiety is a more common side effect of TFMPP than mCPP. This is good to hear... I can probably blame TFMPP for it then, but I'll continue my research. TFMPP gave me NOTHING positive, just a panic attack, but mCPP atleast showed me some good times. I definately noticed that the hangovers became significantly worse with each dosing..I think that mCPP should follow a similar spacing rule as MDMA where you should wait a month or more between sessions.
 
slippy sleeveen said:
For about ten years now, I have responsibly used MDMA and psychedelics mostly, with an occassional fray into weed and opiates, but very rarely. I have never once experienced any significant aftereffects from use of these substances.

I decided to try out some of the piperazines. mCPP and TFMPP to be exact. I used mCPP about 8 times in a 3 month period and TFMPP twice (in conjuction with mCPP).
Click to expand...

I don't know all that much about Piperazines, however, maybe you were using them too often?

How often do you use MDMA?
 
My doses in my two experiments were 60mg + 20mg 30 minutes in of mCPP, and the second time it was 45mg mCPP and 30mg meOPP at once. Both experiences caused some anxiety on the come-up and a little body weirdness throughout, but paradoxically also a nice body high. I didn't experience a lot of euphoria but something about the way I react to euphoric stimulants has gotten weird in the last few years. For example, MDMA makes me feel somewhat nice and also agitated, and the comedown makes me want to kill myself every time and destroys my emotional balance for close to a month. Therefore I will never take it again. Back in the day it created some of my most treasured drug experiences of all time. And before anyone says it, I am absolutely sure my MDMA was MDMA, as it was pure crystals from a chemist friend and also tested.

Anyway, I found mCPP and the combo of mCPP and meOPP to contain virtually no energetic stimulation. I even combined the 80mg mCPP experiment with a small amount of coke, and even then my heart rate felt only slightly elevated.
 
Rated E: It could be entirely possible that I was using mCPP too often. There is very little information regarding the spacing of usage and I used what little information I was able to achieve to assume that once every couple of weeks would not be too harmful. I tend to use MDMA about once a month for a few month period and then I will take a half year break or so and then use it once a month for a few more months etc... although there have been periods where I used it a couple of times in a given weekend, that was irresponsible.

Xorkoth, did MDMA make you feel that way when you first took it? Just wondering.. some people seem to get little to no hangover from it, while others have a hell of a time with it. I am wondering if mCPP is similar.
 
fastandbulbous said:
I've decided that I'm going to give all of them a wide berth - anything attracting the classification of panicogen is something where my curiosity is happy to remain ignorant!
Click to expand...

I still think the idea of calling mCPP (for instance) a panicogen is beyond silly. mCPP has no more ability to cause anxiety symptoms than any phenethylamine or tryptamine. I find mCPP to be quite good for what it is, and I suggest you give it a shot before ignoring it because of a misnomer. ;)
 
Indelibleface said:
I still think the idea of calling mCPP (for instance) a panicogen is beyond silly. mCPP has no more ability to cause anxiety symptoms than any phenethylamine or tryptamine. I find mCPP to be quite good for what it is, and I suggest you give it a shot before ignoring it because of a misnomer. ;)
Click to expand...


I just get a wrong feeling about them (very scientific eh!) and I'm never happy about taking anything that's a aromatic amine unless I absolutely have to (even applies to paracetamol). Aromatic amines are not your body's friend unless they are essential to life, like para-aminobenzoic acid/folic acid. All of the others just come across as a bit too sinister (look I'm on pain meds for some nasty dental proceedure so I'm less than analytical - or to the point! - at the moment, so I go with them being sinister =D)
 
rulerofthecosmos said:
Maybe its the setting in which you are consuming these products that is contributing to your anxiety???
Click to expand...
Extremely logical viewpoint. I believe the come-up is best experienced in a 'nice' environment where not too much is being asked of you, subconsciously or not. A completely non-tear-heart-out situation for the comeup helps a substantial amount.

But once your flying, anything goes, i once stood in a public toilet looking at the <patternizing frequently> floor for 25 minutes due to amazement and LOVED EVERY SECOND. it feels as if your mind is an amazing always-interesting friend always around for your <<entertaining> convenience.

I'm on the stuff right now <mcpp> +1hour15 and it certainly had a <common> wierd unsettling come-up, and then you hit the platauea and it all fits together in ways you never thought possible from the injestion to this point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top