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mCPP & other piperazines - Long-Term Effects

fastandbulbous said:
I just get a wrong feeling about them (very scientific eh!) and I'm never happy about taking anything that's a aromatic amine unless I absolutely have to (even applies to paracetamol). Aromatic amines are not your body's friend unless they are essential to life, like para-aminobenzoic acid/folic acid. All of the others just come across as a bit too sinister (look I'm on pain meds for some nasty dental proceedure so I'm less than analytical - or to the point! - at the moment, so I go with them being sinister =D)
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It's okay, I'm incredibly anti-needles, and I refuse to ever take any drug via injection for recreational use. It just feels unclean, dirty, and dangerous, regardless if it actually is or not (and, more often than not, it's probably incredibly safe). So, I can sympathize. If you're against it, you're against it. Besides, there are better drugs out there, anyway. There's really nothing special about piperazines that would make me want to take them over any proper phenethylamine or tryptamine hallucinogen. Again, the big pluses are that they are easier to come by and essentially legal in most places.
 
slippy sleeveen said:
Xorkoth, did MDMA make you feel that way when you first took it? Just wondering.. some people seem to get little to no hangover from it, while others have a hell of a time with it. I am wondering if mCPP is similar.
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Regarding the comedown you mean? No. Actually, my first few experiences with it really didn't have a negative comedown or aftereffects. I took it about 8 times in one year, and then didn't take it for 2 years. That first year I experienced the typical perfection that MDMA is supposed to be. Then I had it twice and it wasn't as good, but still the same thing. Then I took a break for another two years, and after that, every time I've tried it, it's been weak, unsatisfactory, and has had horrendous aftereffects that scared me so bad last time that I will never touch it again. For a week I was horribly depressed to the point of having a hard time getting out of bed, and it took over a month to feel balanced again.

I wonder if it had something to do with tripping? I wonder because for the past year and a half I've been experimenting with a lot of psychedelics and tripping fairly often, and I had been doing this for the better part of a year when I revisited MDMA this most recent time.

As for mCPP, it was an easy time for me with a slightly bumpy comeup but no aftereffects of any kind. I felt 100% normal the next morning.
 
Combining these are dangerous

I write this in response to the initial post, it struck me how similar this person's experience is to that of my brother, who is now in a mental hospital.

He also took combos of BZP/TMFPP/MCP/mdma, on a small number of occasions. The first time he took BZP was in July and he was admitted to mental hospital in the middle of November as a result taking these drugs. He, much like myself, had taken es for about 8 years prior to this with no problems.

Prior to his admission he also had panic attacks, anxiety attacks, thought he was going to have a heart attack on occasions, irregular/fast heart beat etc, he also tried to kill himself.

This first post sounds very similar to what my brother described to me.

I found the following link which seems to indicate that it can be very dangerous to play with combining these drugs. The authors of the article are all respected academics, so I think it might be an idea to pay attention to the content.

I quote,

"dangerous drug-drug synergism may occur when piperazines are coadministered at high doses "

http://www.mdma.net/tfmpp/tfmpp-bzp.html

My brother tells me, all the time, that these drugs have ruined his life, he was sectioned as he wanted to leave the mental hospital however he was suicidal so they had to section him, which means he is held in there against his will for his own safety. My mum and dad are totally destroyed by the whole saga and I feel so bad for my brother who, just like all of you reading this now, wanted to have a little fun. My brother says that he believes that the drugs have damaged his brain in some way, he advised he feels little emotion, feels detached, can't think properly, has very very poor memory and none of the medicine he has been given has made any difference. He described the way he is feeling as a "living hell" and "it could not be any worse".

I would be interested in hearing back from the person who started this thread to see how he is getting on.
 
hmm, to be honest i still dont know wtf to think of mcpp.

if you ask me i think its just the plain defination of RESEARCH CHEMICAL. i think there is a way to make this drug perfect, we just need to find the right factors like setting dose etc... for me its pretty dose sensitive, 80mg vs 100mg had a huge difference. then again on about 35-40. all felt like different drugs.

i know the panic feeling you describe. but im fairly experienced with psychidelics so it wasnt that hard to convince myself everything was fine. ive had similure feelings on high doses of shrooms

the key factor in my experiences to loseing the panic was having some type of goal or destination. i had to know what was lying ahead, if i just sat there and did whatever i felt a loss of control. a trip sitter fixed this for me by just reminding me every now and then "were chilling at the house untill 4 oclock" or "were walking to the store". there had to be a plan of somesort. i know it sounds strange but that was the simple fix to my panic, i was able to enjoy the rest of it rather easily.

the other option is weed, it pretty much let me do the above on my own with some effort.
 
Between the time I ordered some mCPP from an online vendor and the time it finally arrived, I had read enough negative reports of its effects that I decided not to try it. In fact, I decided I didn't want it in my house, for fear that one bored and reckless night I'd be tempted to dip into it after all.

So, untested and untouched, down the drain it went. (Kinda hated to see it go; it was considerably more than I'd ordered.)

I'm sorry you're having ill effects from your experiences, slippy sleeveen. Your initial positive comments on mCPP were part of the reason I placed the order in the first place, and seeing yet another cautionary tale on the potential downside of these drugs makes me all the more convinced I did the right thing (for me personally) by disposing of the shit.

I'm older now and feel less adventurous, and more appreciative of my emotional and mental health, than I did as a young psychonaut. That, and if a drug affects 3% of people badly, I have a Schleprock-like tendency to be in that minority.

Good luck and hope you feel better.
 
I have severe anxiety.

Although not the drugs in question, I have experiemented with 5-MeO-PP and BZP, once each separately, and once combined, all at >100mg doses.

The comeup is always panicky for both, I find, but once the effects come on, the panic goes. I think this is traded off by the fact that, at least at the doses I took, these drugs never produced a crash. Needless to say, I do not experience more or less panic than my daily routine panic after the experiments ;)
 
^^ Sorry, I had positive experiences with mCPP, as did many of my friends, but it appears that certain people are open to problems from its usage down the road. Out of 14 of my friends that have tried, and myself, I am the only one that had issues with it.

Didn't mean to lead anybody on about it being a wonder compound = ) It is nice, in its own right, but as with everything, certain people are going to have negative reactions. I would say that it is probably fine to try out 30mg for yourself and see where that gets you. My problems are, obviously, an exception to the rule. But if you think you could have a bad reaction and be in that 3% minority, then by all means, don't do it. You are never going to enjoy something to its fullest if you are anxious you are going to have a bad reaction the entire time.

An update on my initial post, btw, my symptoms have all but vanished now. I still sometimes get a bit of anxiety from caffeine, but that aside, no more problems. Seems like a nice MDMA session helped to clear things up in my head :)
 
late response

sorry if i'm coming in a bit late here, and i'm tired so may repeat something in the thread i didn't read clearly.......obeisance paid on with the post.

there's info somehwere on pubmed that 10-20% of everyone who tries mcpp has either a headache or nausea.

"a freind of mine" had grand visions of making his fortune by producing the next gen of zine party pills by using mcpp, meopp and a touch of pfpp.

alas the people he tested his world beating product on were his chemically pickled friends, so as you can guess they swallowed everything produced and waited for the next brew.

when released on the general public there were dozens of complaints, returns, 2 hospital visits (caused by double-dipping a measly 50mg mcpp 100 meopp and 20 pfpp) and everyone asked if they could be made...........weaker please!

we chased it down and it seems if your the type that reacts once then your probably gonna do it again, especially mcpp.

my daughter is 26 yo weighs 56 kilos and can take 100mg mcpp and never miss a beat, her 30 yo 100 kilo husband (a regular rec user of assorted chems) cannot have 50mg without throwing up every time.

in our couple of months of fairly intensive "street research" the only repeat offender was mcpp.

we even tried the old placebo, blind/switch etc and still those who couldn't handle mcpp were quesy to sick when tey had some. we added ground ginger etc etc and nothing worked for those with the "sensitivity"

meopp was a real pussycat at anything up to 400mg, even with the folks who yacked on 50 of mcpp had no trouble with this one.

pfpp is one of those that most people say "feels" chemical, slight metallic taste in mouth, can feel a bit grubby the following day but all in all we never came across anyone who developed any sensitvity to it.

we still use them every 2-4 weeks, and that's 6 months after the intital enthusiasm and have found meopp with a bit of pfpp is sill pretty good.

no experience with tfmpp sorry, kiwis have had more of that for longer than where i am.

hope that helps :)
 
mcpp is ok in small amounts with meopp. but TFMPP is shite it makes me paranoid and gives me the worse headaches.
BZP and pfpp is nice tho
 
This is probably a bit off topic. But since mcPP takes so damn long to kick in, around 2 hours besides the shitty come-up effects people do not desire. Does this mean it is possible the body is playing chemistry with the molecule and turning it into another active before it hits the brain? And if so is there any way that doesn't require a research grant to find this out? And if we did find out if it is turning it into another active.. I wonder if it would still work orally without primers or MAOi's or something.
 
Dont most PEAs take along tie to kick in(DOx,mescaline...)not saying pipez are peas tho
 
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