Maybe it is our nature to have these super-rich super-powerful people in our society. There are no "real" kings anymore but there are people making more or less officially the same calls that kings used to make (think JP Morgan, drug lords, Hitler). We obviously need some kind of leaders but maybe we need stronger leaders than we think we do.
-
P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
Maybe we do need Kings.
- Thread starter max_
- Start date
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
in the USA?
if so, that would defeat most the hope of its inception, which was meritocracy and not aristocracy.
if so, that would defeat most the hope of its inception, which was meritocracy and not aristocracy.
Bardeaux
Bluelight Crew
^Although most of the founders were aristocrats themselves 
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
^in blood, but not accreditation/recognition. this, scrutiny was motivating enough for some, or an individual to recognize the potential in all.
Quantum Perception
Bluelighter
I don't agree with the OP about needing "stronger" rulers. However Ive been coming to the new conclusion that democracy is not that great. The saying about democracy being two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner, gives a good point about the possibility of mob rule. While liberty is an educated person contesting the vote. So this makes me think that what we need is a stronger republic with more educated citizens actually engaging politicians rather then blindly accepting them.
There is no nation on earth that has a democrative system. This would mean leaders have to answer to their people in some way, and there is no country in the world where the system allows for this.
I believe that in the future we will be self-fulfilled, needing no government. But in the mean time, I think sth like a "good dictator" would do the trick. I vote David Lynch ! (Although he himself wouldn't want that function probably)
I believe that in the future we will be self-fulfilled, needing no government. But in the mean time, I think sth like a "good dictator" would do the trick. I vote David Lynch ! (Although he himself wouldn't want that function probably)
Democracy is a load of bullshit for one simple reason. 51% of the vote is all that's needed, but you may have that 51% being total brainless morons who've been programmed to vote the way they did. Which funnily enough is exactly what we have today! Just because the majority voted that way doesn't mean they voted for the best option. 51% could even be murderers or rapists, but if they win the vote, it's democratic. Democracy is just another 'wool over the eyes' concept to make the public believe they actually live in a fair nation.
I'm not sure if there is really a transition from having rulers to not having rulers. I mean having 'philosophical kings' who are in-tune with things and can fairly represent the needs and wishes of the people is a really nice idea, but it becomes kinda pointless in the face of a society that lives with abundance and free energy (hence why inventions that would take us there have been supressed!).
I'm not sure if there is really a transition from having rulers to not having rulers. I mean having 'philosophical kings' who are in-tune with things and can fairly represent the needs and wishes of the people is a really nice idea, but it becomes kinda pointless in the face of a society that lives with abundance and free energy (hence why inventions that would take us there have been supressed!).
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
^democracy is real, America has the potential to be the greatest country.
we are the people who constitute our government, we are handed every rite, can create new ones, we could vote and demand anything. what we choose though, is the segregation we fear because with in fear is indeed a 'comfort zone', a new found hope for a parental type suggestion that, "itll be okay", with no explanation of how, waiting for something else to happen, the laws we despise, the prices we cant afford, the politicians we cant relate to...are our choice.
but...we take this for granted and would rather do what we have been taught and demand instant gratification.
anyway, that 51% you mentioned -=SS=-, could be far less if we acknowledged the 'Dead Hand' whom does most the voting for us.
no way, then we would all have mismatching shoes and hair that changed color with our moods...
we are the people who constitute our government, we are handed every rite, can create new ones, we could vote and demand anything. what we choose though, is the segregation we fear because with in fear is indeed a 'comfort zone', a new found hope for a parental type suggestion that, "itll be okay", with no explanation of how, waiting for something else to happen, the laws we despise, the prices we cant afford, the politicians we cant relate to...are our choice.
but...we take this for granted and would rather do what we have been taught and demand instant gratification.
anyway, that 51% you mentioned -=SS=-, could be far less if we acknowledged the 'Dead Hand' whom does most the voting for us.
no way, then we would all have mismatching shoes and hair that changed color with our moods...
P A
Bluelighter
Up to this post, democracy (a distinct from of government) has been repeatedly conflated with modern republicanism (another, related, form of government) and majority rule (a voting system).
Though democracy continues to present the most credible appeal as a form of governance in almost any institution, our so-called Founding Fathers' technocratic/bureaucratic "checks and balances" were introduced in part to curb the frenzied will of the mob. The United States was never supposed to resemble the radical democracy of majority rule on display in small clubs or tribal societies; it was intended as a 'best of both' system that provided the most individual liberty at the smallest collective cost, taking considerations of political economy as secondary and subsidiary to the Constitutional rights and social will of the people. It didn't turn out quite the way they had intended, but you know what they say about plans and battles, I guess....
Though democracy continues to present the most credible appeal as a form of governance in almost any institution, our so-called Founding Fathers' technocratic/bureaucratic "checks and balances" were introduced in part to curb the frenzied will of the mob. The United States was never supposed to resemble the radical democracy of majority rule on display in small clubs or tribal societies; it was intended as a 'best of both' system that provided the most individual liberty at the smallest collective cost, taking considerations of political economy as secondary and subsidiary to the Constitutional rights and social will of the people. It didn't turn out quite the way they had intended, but you know what they say about plans and battles, I guess....
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
^ A certain Rockefeller came along with the bright idea of 'paper money', to be backed by gold, creating the driving force and motivation for capitalism. With Paper Money and Gold mining, Churches and Graveyards, capitalism, THEN the production-line...A flimsy dependent system of industry was created, for us. For us, for the USA, for the "civilized" developed world nations to begin its ever since decline amongst majorital family values in a moral ethical spectrum, and with the loss of such founding morals and ethics, new ones, new standards and expectations were leaked and implemented amongst the newworld young families and their children.
P A
Bluelighter
I think you've been watching too much Zeitgeist, man. The use of fiat currency and paper money has a much longer and richer history than that of the Rockefeller family.
And so does market capitalism. You should consider taking a refresher course or two in the subjects of world history and political economy.
And so does market capitalism. You should consider taking a refresher course or two in the subjects of world history and political economy.
vegan
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2003
- Messages
- 6,398
max, your post is the observation of a situation, not arguments to justify it
to get the conversation going you'd need to explain why you think we would need "kings"
because you seem to have an opinion about it, but for now you're leaving to us the job of finding both the arguments for and against
to get the conversation going you'd need to explain why you think we would need "kings"
because you seem to have an opinion about it, but for now you're leaving to us the job of finding both the arguments for and against
Bardeaux
Bluelight Crew
The problem with this is that democracy is a broad concept and isn't necessarily limited to direct, majority rule. An absolutely direct, winner take all democracy isn't ideal for the reasons above, but there are other democratic systems that alleviate these problems through representation, consensus or a combination of both.
The most efficient democracies in the modern world from my perspective seem to be proportional representative democracies. I don't see a pragmatic alternative at this point, we need some sort of leadership but without investing total authority into the hands of a few individuals.
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
i never took a course on the subjects.
In the USA there was no paper money until around the period of Reformation, it is true that a young Rockefeller is who pitched the idea for paper money, backed by gold to be used as our respective currency.
Not a far fetched idea at all.
Now what we as a people are doing to the earth in order to continue our insatiable want for gold jewelry is massive. After a few generations people would not even care to have to gold jewelry, something else can replace it.
I dont believe in recycling, I can hardly remember zeitgeist, i am not a sheltered New Ager...
The Amazon and neighboring rainforests, all around the equator is being mined for gold,
poison the coca plants of those who depend on them living in high elevation
in order to thicken their blood, and continue taking in the profits selling cocaine to those who devote their pay checks and breed violence to use and further distribute the stuff.
The massive virgin source of gold and diamonds that can be harvested from the same area
can further exhaust those peoples population by having them do the mining, destroying the rain forests, as this mining is taking place, the releasing and breeding, distribution of new bacteria and viruses will do much of dirty work narrowing out even further those who are poor and can receive no help, or practicing risky sexual and drug use behavior...then my favorite part, is, as this has been going on a while now, is it related to the mass of new disabling chronic pain disorders and other autoimmune disorders, there are new diseases such as what I have, which is "for doctors and pathologists who arent even born yet to figure out". The opposite of HIV, greatly elevated white blood cells with no pathogens or wounds to fight or heal, ones WBCs will literally try helping by eating people like me from the inside out, or a bronchial infection could kill us.
These d/o's, with the nature of WBC's, have never existed, neither have the drugs produced to treat them, one of which i was taking as a self administered injection taken every 10 days at the price of $12000 per 40 unit injection.
Once this happens, spending around $50k per year just to suppress the immune system, mine for example is always pushing or over ~30, yours if healthy ~8.5-11. Disability is a must if you take that stuff, Tumor Necrosis Factor pain blockers, and the Cell Mutators that are attempted to be prescribed with it, it beyond impractical to work to purchase the drug, if you made enough over ~50k per year to live on...
Now we have the Black Plague again, in New Mexico and Oregon so far. Do I feel this is a sign of Dooms Day? No, Karma? no, but our arrogance here in the USA has entitled us to some dispicable unique health issues.
No way am I Anti-America, but the greater percentage, 85%(fuck it)needs to learn to accept and take responsibility, and have plus show compassion for those ignorant to this sort of thing, and it is a long list, most of it that I am aware of I can not in good conscious post about here.
In the USA there was no paper money until around the period of Reformation, it is true that a young Rockefeller is who pitched the idea for paper money, backed by gold to be used as our respective currency.
Not a far fetched idea at all.
Now what we as a people are doing to the earth in order to continue our insatiable want for gold jewelry is massive. After a few generations people would not even care to have to gold jewelry, something else can replace it.
I dont believe in recycling, I can hardly remember zeitgeist, i am not a sheltered New Ager...
The Amazon and neighboring rainforests, all around the equator is being mined for gold,
poison the coca plants of those who depend on them living in high elevation
in order to thicken their blood, and continue taking in the profits selling cocaine to those who devote their pay checks and breed violence to use and further distribute the stuff.
The massive virgin source of gold and diamonds that can be harvested from the same area
can further exhaust those peoples population by having them do the mining, destroying the rain forests, as this mining is taking place, the releasing and breeding, distribution of new bacteria and viruses will do much of dirty work narrowing out even further those who are poor and can receive no help, or practicing risky sexual and drug use behavior...then my favorite part, is, as this has been going on a while now, is it related to the mass of new disabling chronic pain disorders and other autoimmune disorders, there are new diseases such as what I have, which is "for doctors and pathologists who arent even born yet to figure out". The opposite of HIV, greatly elevated white blood cells with no pathogens or wounds to fight or heal, ones WBCs will literally try helping by eating people like me from the inside out, or a bronchial infection could kill us.
These d/o's, with the nature of WBC's, have never existed, neither have the drugs produced to treat them, one of which i was taking as a self administered injection taken every 10 days at the price of $12000 per 40 unit injection.
Once this happens, spending around $50k per year just to suppress the immune system, mine for example is always pushing or over ~30, yours if healthy ~8.5-11. Disability is a must if you take that stuff, Tumor Necrosis Factor pain blockers, and the Cell Mutators that are attempted to be prescribed with it, it beyond impractical to work to purchase the drug, if you made enough over ~50k per year to live on...
Now we have the Black Plague again, in New Mexico and Oregon so far. Do I feel this is a sign of Dooms Day? No, Karma? no, but our arrogance here in the USA has entitled us to some dispicable unique health issues.
No way am I Anti-America, but the greater percentage, 85%(fuck it)needs to learn to accept and take responsibility, and have plus show compassion for those ignorant to this sort of thing, and it is a long list, most of it that I am aware of I can not in good conscious post about here.
panic in paradise
Bluelighter
are we deciding over Kings, as in plural? as in multiple Kings and courts, with multiple Princes and jesters?!
that wouldnt go over so well, me dont think...at least not in one ruling land such as the rolling hills of america with its blue skies and wild life, cowboys and supermodels, beer bars and parking lots,pistols cloaks daggers and what nots...
DeathDomokun
Ex-Bluelighter
'Capitalist Democracy' is an oxymoron.
You're right! I should've backed it up a little.. We need Kings because, well because we never actually got rid of them. We need kings in the same way we need friends: A few may not have any, but they have social interactions anyway. We are social creatures and we need social contact. It is also in our nature to have kings. We always manage to fill that chair, no matter what they call themselves there's always someone playing that role.
Flailing_Gypsy
Bluelighter
I strongly disagree. We don't need 'kings' or leaders, we need cooperators... we need eachother. Hierarchy is, in my opinion, the root of almost all humanity's problems.
Hierarchy in inherent to society. Not only human society, dolphins bees monkeys penguins any form of semi intelligent life that lives in groups has and needs hierarchy. Some more primitive forms of life may live in groups without a designed leader, fishes like sardines or salmon but they are far less evolved and (don't doubt this) have a crapier time during their lives than we or bees do.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Insofar as society is structured to produce a need for hierarchical rulers to manage the populace, society will be unable to produce rulers fit for implementing such management.
ebola
ebola