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Mass Delusion

what you take from the words exists within your own imagination. but as far as i know, words that are physically written on a physical piece of paper exist within the physical world.
 
The_Idler said:
I have logically concluded that most people probably have opinions.
however, after all the subjective experience i have ever had, i have concluded that i probably do not.

and what evidence do you have to suggest that i, personally, MUST have opinions?
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because you just gave me your opinion.
 
they probably do, so i act as if they do- it makes life work.

i do not believe the paper or words exist.
i know they might not exist.
to believe that they do would be idiocy.
 
Medatripper Tates said:
because you just gave me your opinion.
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no, i told you of a subjective logical conclusion that i probably made.
i remember making the conclusion, anyway.

someone cannot disagree with my subjective mental processes, and they also cannot be factual.

to believe in there truth would be the ultimate folly
 
The_Idler said:
they probably do, so i act as if they do- it makes life work.

i do not believe the paper or words exist.
i know they might not exist.
to believe that they do would be idiocy.
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what i am trying to point to you is that it doesn't matter if you consciously believe the paper or words exist. what i have noticed within myself is that beliefs operate on a subconscious level as well. it has a lot to do with the way we react to various situations.
 
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The_Idler said:
no, i told you of a subjective logical conclusion that i probably made.
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you are talking in riddles dude. what you told me was an idea that you expressed from your mind. it was your personal view... an opinion.
 
what, it's my OPINION that I PERSONALLY have made a conclusion?
no. I am sure of its probable truth.
an opinion would indicate one could contest my thoughts, but that is impossible.
"well you may THINK you concluded this, but i am of the opinion that you didn't""
well, that's stupid.




and no, i do not believe, on any level, anything.
belief involves the active rejection of experiences that would suggest the possibility of the concept not being the case.
i simply act as if the paper is real.
without thinking actively about it, yes,
but i DO FUCKING REALISE that the paper may not be real.

and what you noticed within yourself "that beliefs operate...."
clearly does not apply to me,
as i do not have beliefs.
they are logically counter-productive.
 
What do you think the realest of understanding comes from?
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The simplest things (which are at the same time the most intricate):

When I see a plant surviving in a concrete jungle
Watching a bird soaring on wind currents
The feel of the wind against your skin when you're standing on a plain in the middle of nowhere
Watching nature destroy and save what she sees fit
When I cry from absolute joy and an overdose of how beautiful our world is
When I get bitch-slapped right left and center by the universe for taking things for granted

So I'd have to say, when you put aside the objective and the subjective, let go of fear, let go of the need for logical explanation and simply be - understanding comes from an indefinable place deep inside yourself when you feel simple pure joy and happiness.

Note: and "realest" is ENTIRELY subjective and NOBODY can tell you what's right or wrong. There is no "realism" as such that we know of as fact. My realism is my own, your realism is yours. Accepting that there are no ultimate answers and that most of our lives and understanding thereof is a huge mystery, is what makes life so wonderful for me, and so scary for others.

Even "understanding" is a problematic word for me ... my subjective experience allows me to interpret and believe what is comfortable for me now, what i may believe tomorrow or in the next 10 years may very very likely change drastically. "Understanding" it all is a bit irrelevant to me at the moment.
 
what i am saying here is that maybe all of this so called knowledge they feed us takes away from our understanding of ourselves and who we are behind our mental projections.
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you got it. free thinking is seen as pretty inherently dangerous to "structure", apparently even to some posters on here.

Nobody knows fuck all for sure, except for things like: its very very hard to hike on mountainous terrain tripping out of one's wee mind; food tastes really good after aforementioned hike; its a good idea to take a knife on hikes. Apart from that, its all just waffle - we're pretty damn clueless, accept that, and carry on.
 
The_Idler said:
what, it's my OPINION that I PERSONALLY have made a conclusion?
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you made a conclusion, then expressed it in the form of an opinion.

Wiki -
An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something.

and no, i do not believe, on any level, anything.
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so you don't believe that if you stab somebody, they will bleed?

you don't believe that when you lay down tonight, you will fall asleep?

everyone has beliefs, it is natural.
 
the idler:

yep, us evil insidious hippies are all over now... we've finally gotten the hang of the internet thing, bwahaahhhahaha. Can you call somebody born in the 70's a hippy??? Do I really qualify?

all i know is, i spent years getting wasted and discussing/writing up philosophical concepts at great and very stoned lengths - my ultimate conclusion: nobody really knows fuck all, and i couldn't be bothered getting into great lengthy debates nowadays (except when feeling perky after a few Jack D's and wishing to fuck around with some young minds). People waffle on, nature endures, we may blow the human race to smithereens shortly. Such is life =D
 
Medatripper Tates said:
you made a conclusion, then expressed it in the form of an opinion.

Wiki -
An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something.



so you don't believe that if you stab somebody, they will bleed?

you don't believe that when you lay down tonight, you will fall asleep?

everyone has beliefs, it is natural.
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If i stab someone, i know they will probably bleed.
almost certainly.
based on previous subjective experience.
so
i act as if they will
because i will probably be right, if i do.
i acknowledge the fact that they might NOT bleed,
so that means that i do not BELIEVE it,
as that would entail me rejecting all other possibilities.
which would be idiocy.

and i am probably about to fall asleep.
 
and taken as a joke =D

and no, i do not believe, on any level, anything.
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who said that??
1. I don't believe you
2. I don't believe you
3. If that really is your personal philosophy, you must be really lonely. or not?
 
ok so you never have any beliefs, sure.

but that don't mean you never have opinions :|

you've gotta be some kind of superhuman.
 
Idler:

Okay, it was your quote about not believing anything, on any level. I still want to know, isn't it an awfully lonely philosophy to live out????

I tried hard to subscribe to that for a while, but made a choice to believe in some things, which have proved over and over and over to be real (within this reality and my life now - logics, semantics, philosophy and all that crap aside):

true friends
natural beauty
good food
contentment of lying in hammock doing and thinking absolutely zip

Personally, I couldn't give a shit if they're REALLY real or not, at the time, they feel real and true and good - why go down the martyr path? What do you hope to gain?
 
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