marijuana vs alcohol

[the seeker]

I agree with you that drugs are not needed for spiritual development. They can indeed be detrimental as well. I'm glad you were able to discover yourself through the help of marijuana, and it's too bad you had to abuse it and feel like you crippled yourself. I did the same thing to myself years ago. But I wonder, since you no longer smoke, why do you still feel crippled? it's all in your head. You know your spirituality. What it is that doesn't allow you to return to that place you were at before you used too much weed? It's all mental.

The key here is moderation. Imagine if you had just had those first experiences that you feel actually did help you to become more aware, and then stopped there, or perhaps continued using but only occasionally, for special purposes? Do you think you wouldn't be "crippled" now? This is what I'm talking about - responsible use of psychedelics and marijuana, not irresponsible abuse. Abuse always leads to trouble.

i think its senseless and in a way hypocritical for someone like me who abused marijuana to advocate responsible use. some of the people who try marijuana will always end up abusing it and therefore i cannot see myself ever advising anyone to use it. obviously if someone is already using it i would make it clear that smoking multiple times daily is serious abuse and advocate responsible use but thats a different story.

I had a great start with cannabis myself, but over the next few years, I smoked myself inot oblivion. it helped, along with just growing up in general, to throw me into a deep depression, which I felt I could never fix, and which was because of my drug use. However, I had a very therapeutic series of trips on other, more psychedelic substances, and they allowed me to see the patterns of self-destruction between the various parts of my ego which made me depressed and anxious, and through practice now that I could recognize them, I stopped them. It kicked me out of my funk. Since then, I've been using psychedelics and marijuana responsibly, not abusively, and it has helped me so much in my life to be happy and motivated and able to shrug off the daily bullshit that tends to drag people down.

That's why I say that if I found out my child was safely experimenting with psychedelics at an appropriate age, I would be proud that he was able to make such a decision, and I would certainly let him know that things might change forever, and to be ready for that. And I would be nervous as hell. But I think being a guiding force a child can trust is much more beneficial to them than forbidding them to do something and just shutting it out. And plus, how can I disregard my own life and what they've helped to do for me? And, I have to say, the Christian church is a noble ideal, and I plan to bring my kids up that way also simply due to the structure, which children need, and it teaches them good morals. But I have to say that I don't know many people who emerge as adults and still follow the religion closely to really be very spiritual at all. Mostly they're a judgemental lot who feel that they have to sacrifice all their joy in life in exchange for an elusive reward after death which doesn't even exist, or to prevent hell for eternity, which also doesn't exist. And morals can be taught by the parent... a church isn't needed to pass that on. I do know some truly wonderful and spiritual people who are with the church, but mostly I feel that it works to prevent people from ever really understanding their own spirituality. They get bogged down in the ritual and the guilt and the shame and hide their hatred of others behind verses in the Bible written by ancient men that reflects the beliefs of their time period, and really don't understand what it is they claim to follow at all. Now, it may be that you didn't mean Christianity but just God in general as a concept, in which case, that last bit doesn't apply.

i was about to say, who said anything about chruch?

I have certainly been changed forever because of my use of psychedelics and marijuana. And I totally agree with you that these drugs are not needed to discover yourself and your spirituality. meditation is a much better method. However, this western culture in which we live makes it hard for a person to lead that lifestyle, especially the younger generations. I believe that psychedelic drugs, when used responsibly, can be wonderful tools, launching points from which to discover yourself and your spirituality. Like anything, if overused, they can cause more harm than good. But with proper use, they can lead to great happiness and understanding.

It's all about moderation and understanding the line between use and abuse.

well you're welcome to believe that. however, i don't agree. if you use a drug to force a spiritual experience (and that is what psychedelics do) before youre ready and without earning it, i believe it is detrimental. furthermore, how can you know for sure that you will arrive at the same place?

And finally, you're not physically and mentally crippled anymore except by your own demons that resulted from your guilt over marijuana abuse. I guarantee that if you do some serious truthful searching inside yourself and deal wioth the issues that remain, you will find out that you're perfectly capable of anything you want to be. You're the same person you always were, only now you have the added benefit of extra life experience.

don't you think that is a little presumptuous? if i could overcome the residual affects of cannabis i would have. it has left my lungs singed and my brain fried. my mind is simply not the same anymore. i feel stoned/burnt out and incredibly spacey all the time despite not having smoked in over a year. all my youthful exuburance, liveliness and excitement is gone.

 

[EJ]

the seeker, I have to ask, but what was your real motive behind starting this thread? In your first post, you clearly show a preference towards cannabis, but in all your posts since, you've only shown an increasing disdain for it. Such inconsistency is confusing, and I can't help but think you've got an agenda here.

 

[psychetool]

Both have their pros and cons, each to be used in the right situation. For instance if I want to be sociable and go out and have some fun, i'll drink or drop a pill. If I want to sit at home and watch cartoons and get drunk, i'll smoke weed. In my expirience, cannabis makes me a bit more antisocial even around my friends just because I overanalize and my brain feels literally slowed down a bit by it. 3 side effects of weed, sleepy, happy and hungry.

As for drinking properly its pretty basic, drink 1 glass of water for each beverage consumed, have a PROPER meal before you start drinking not like some fucking McDonalds or something but like meatloaf and potatoes or spaghetti with a salad that kind of stuff. That and you space it out, no more then 2 drinks/hour (though i'm guilty of breaking that one!) but even if you DO go over that you are liable to be fine because of all the water and food that is already going through your system. And, don't drink above 12 shots. For me it seems over 12 shots = slight hangover, less then 12 shots = GOOD MORNING SUNSHINE!

P.S. I see an agenda too, hehe. Whatever, just telling you how it works for ME.

 

[Amberthefrog]

For me i would say alcohol, generally because i have never found marijuana to be a real psychedelic drug if you follow me. I have only successfully used both of them as social tool rather than psychedelic tools, although they both excel at this i found i prefer alcohol.

I have never had any real panic or anxiety on weed like many have however there is still a above average 'connection' with perceived problems, where as with alcohol this is reduced. This is not a bad thing at all, in many cases it is good, however i feel that due to this it does not rival alcohol as a social device - the prime purpose i have used them both for.

I never have got any hangovers from weed use, except a head ache from resin, from my experience the alcohol hangovers is *much* worse, it can be reduced greatly with some basic measures but it still exists.

From nothing more than anecdotal evidence i think that weed is more addictive than alcohol, taking into account psychological addiction. From what i have seen the action of smoking a spliff or a cigarette is in itself very psychologically addictive. Saying this i think alcohol addiction is much more destructive when it occurs.

 

[AuraithX]

From nothing more than anecdotal evidence i think that weed is more addictive than alcohol, taking into account psychological addiction. From what i have seen the action of smoking a spliff or a cigarette is in itself very psychologically addictive. Saying this i think alcohol addiction is much more destructive when it occurs.

Wow...

The psychological addiction of alcohol is bad too, since it's socially acceptable to drink. It's pretty hard to avoid alcohol, everyone drinks.

And..

Alcohol withdrawal is significantly different from withdrawal from opiates in that the actual withdrawal mechanism can result in death. While it is possible for heroin addicts to die from other health problems made worse by the strain of withdrawal, an otherwise healthy alcoholic can die from the direct effects of withdrawal if it is not properly managed.

 

[sassylx]

Personally, I think both are good for different occasions, and i dont think i could live with one and not the other as i believe they are compatible.

When i drink, i normally wake up the next morning completely brain-dead and regretting what ever i did or said when i was drunk.

When im high, I enjoy everything and have fun with friends, i am completely relaxed and at ease, and i can snap out of it any time i want.

in that sense, i think i prefer weed.

But alcohol is a more social substance. I would rather drink when im with friends for the social aspects of interaction, whereas i would get high by myself coz im bored and it gives me something to do, and then so much fun afterwards. I think drinking alone is dangerous.

Both great things, imo.

 

[psychetool]

Weed is 10x more addictive then alcohol for me. If I got it, I pretty much have to smoke it. Whereas I can sit around with a 1/2 gallon of whiskey for a couple weeks and only drink moderately on the weekend. As for developing a real physical addiction to alcohol, thats hard and takes drinking EVERY DAY. You can smoke weed EVERY DAY without many other effects then a fuzzy brain and a lot of drowsyness when you wake up. Don't get me wrong, weed still trumps alcohol on my list of favorite substances ~ but to me it is far more detrimental which is why (and OFTEN TIMES fail) I try to limit myself to weekends. Alcohol is not psychologically addictive to me, where as weed I know that i'll be with it for life.

 

[Xorkoth]

i think its senseless and in a way hypocritical for someone like me who abused marijuana to advocate responsible use. some of the people who try marijuana will always end up abusing it and therefore i cannot see myself ever advising anyone to use it. obviously if someone is already using it i would make it clear that smoking multiple times daily is serious abuse and advocate responsible use but thats a different story.

Fair enough. I think for you to advocate marijuana use would be against what you feel is reasonable. However, it doesn't actually mean that no one should use it. However, I don't think you mean that no one should use it so that's not an issue.

well you're welcome to believe that. however, i don't agree. if you use a drug to force a spiritual experience (and that is what psychedelics do) before youre ready and without earning it, i believe it is detrimental. furthermore, how can you know for sure that you will arrive at the same place?

Well, this is assuming you've reasonably prepared yourself, you're a secure individual, and you're in a proper set and setting. In other words, responsible use for the intent of exploring consciousness. In that case, psychedelics can be a tremendous boost, a launching pad of sorts, to understanding our existence and spirituality. For some this would not be advisable. But there are many people who can attest to the benefits of a well-taken psychedelic voyage. But this is really a bit of a digression as it is more directed towards full psychedelics like mushrooms and LSD and DMT and ketamine. But still, marijuana has the capacity as well. Just because it wouldn't work for everyone doesn't mean it's detrimental in general to use psychedelics to achieve a spiritual experience.

don't you think that is a little presumptuous? if i could overcome the residual affects of cannabis i would have. it has left my lungs singed and my brain fried. my mind is simply not the same anymore. i feel stoned/burnt out and incredibly spacey all the time despite not having smoked in over a year. all my youthful exuburance, liveliness and excitement is gone.

You may view it as presumptuous, but I think it's the truth. I know it's hard - I've been there before as well. How old are you? it took me years to come out of the haze that marijuana abuse and several other factors caused, but I did it through psychedelic self-therapy and through the tools I gained from that, daily practice in overcoming those obstacles while sober. And those issues no longer plague me whatsoever. Lungs heal if you stop wounding them, and marijuana does not permanently reduce your brain functioning. It's just caused you to develop neuroses and insecurities which human beings have a hard time shaking.

I'm not trying to belittle you in any way. I know how hard it is. yet I'm sure that any psychiatrist would tell you that you have the power to work through your issues if you work at it and have some sort of basis for understanding how to do that work. techniques like biofeedback work as well. I think you should give yourself some credit, and not allow yourself to get stuck forever in your pit of despair.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I have an interesting perspective on the whole 'entheogen' thing, with regards to alcohol, now that I'm dating a girl from a religious Jewish family.

The Jews have long used alcohol on High Holy Days as a ceremonial entheogen, much like the Aztecs used shrooms, the Rastafari use ganja, and the native Siberian peoples use fly agaric. Jews traditionally do NOT, however, use alcohol as a recreational drug. Religious Jews, especially older ones, tend to think very poorly of people whose hobby is going to the bars, and they don't find drunken antics in the least way amusing.

Any drug's harm potential, as well as its usefulness for spiritual purposes, depends largely on the context of its use. In general, I've noticed that ritualized use on sporadic occasions by cohesive groups of people for spiritual or other bonding purposes tends to be ideal as far as harm reduction goes. If you're not a dyed-in-the-wool Rastafari living in a tightly-knit Jamaican community, it's hard point to the Rastafari as justification for chiefing up every time you get into your car and drive somewhere alone.

 

[the seeker]

the seeker, I have to ask, but what was your real motive behind starting this thread? In your first post, you clearly show a preference towards cannabis, but in all your posts since, you've only shown an increasing disdain for it. Such inconsistency is confusing, and I can't help but think you've got an agenda here.

i have always prefered the high from cannabis to that of alcohol, that is why i smoked so much cannabis. for me marijuana was an awesome drug which gave me amazing experiences but as also very addictive and harmful. alcohol on the other hand is fun sometimes but overall not that great, however it never harmed me or was addictive to me.

 

[the seeker]

F

You may view it as presumptuous, but I think it's the truth. I know it's hard - I've been there before as well. How old are you? it took me years to come out of the haze that marijuana abuse and several other factors caused, but I did it through psychedelic self-therapy and through the tools I gained from that, daily practice in overcoming those obstacles while sober. And those issues no longer plague me whatsoever. Lungs heal if you stop wounding them, and marijuana does not permanently reduce your brain functioning. It's just caused you to develop neuroses and insecurities which human beings have a hard time shaking.

I'm not trying to belittle you in any way. I know how hard it is. yet I'm sure that any psychiatrist would tell you that you have the power to work through your issues if you work at it and have some sort of basis for understanding how to do that work. techniques like biofeedback work as well. I think you should give yourself some credit, and not allow yourself to get stuck forever in your pit of despair.

ive spent the last year trying to work through this and had no success, which is what is causing me to begin dispair. lung damage can only heal up to a point and i think it is a presumptuous to say that marijuana does not permanently "reduce" (im not sure reduce is the right word here, marijuana alters brain functioning although it may also reduce it) brain functioning.



Marijuana users display persistent metabolic alterations in brain regions responsible for ECF

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15528091

Long-term abuse of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive constituent of marijuana, produces behavioral and metabolic signs of frontal cortical dysfunction in humans

http://cannabis.net/dopamine/index.html


and to answer your question, i am 22.

 

[doesntmatter]

if you look for information regarding the effects of prolonged daily abuse of alcohol you'll find out how nasty it is aswell.

i think the whole thread comes down the seperation between use and abuse between both substances.

that being said. it is MUCH harder to quit drinking after daily abuse for a number of years than it is to quit smoking the same amount for the same period of time. i promise you if you ask an alcoholic of 20 years and a pot head of 20 years how the withdrawl went they would agree.

 

[Pokesmot]

I smoke more than an ounce of the highest quality krippy every single day yet my lungs are perfectly fine allowing me to run a mile in under 5 minutes and my memory is flawless. Most stoners who are lazy lethargic couch bums would be so even without cannabis.

 

[MasterOfDeception]

you see, i believe psychedelics expand the mind and alter perception, they can even induce seemingly spiritual experiences and this is what makes them so dangerous. once you open the doors of perception, your life may be forever changed and no matter how hard you wish for it, you can never go back to how you were.

well, it could be changed for the better, no ? :D
You have some nice points, nice discussion between you and Xorkoth btw. Especially during the 3rd page, you covered almost everything in the alcohol vs cannabis discussion/.

 

[the seeker]

well, it could be changed for the better, no ? :D
You have some nice points, nice discussion between you and Xorkoth btw. Especially during the 3rd page, you covered almost everything in the alcohol vs cannabis discussion/.

you could end up being changed for the better but the fact that you could end up being changed for the worse or simply in a neutral way which after a while you decide you do not like, is what makes them so dangerous. if you decide to drink beer, you know when you wake up the next morning you will still be same person with relatively the same mindset and the same state of consciousness. however, when you ingest a psychedelic substance , you dont know for certain what affects the trip will have on you. and in my opinion, that is dangerous. i would give anything to go back to my pre-marijuana, psychedelic state and gradually discover life's mysterious on my own.

 

[yepyepwoah]

you could end up being changed for the better but the fact that you could end up being changed for the worse or simply in a neutral way which after a while you decide you do not like, is what makes them so dangerous. if you decide to drink beer, you know when you wake up the next morning you will still be same person with relatively the same mindset and the same state of consciousness. however, when you ingest a psychedelic substance , you dont know for certain what affects the trip will have on you. and in my opinion, that is dangerous. i would give anything to go back to my pre-marijuana, psychedelic state and gradually discover life's mysterious on my own.

well i'm taking the opp. stance on what you said.

i'm so glad i experienced what I have.

alcohol is fun and all, but unfulling and pointless really.

that being said i'm drinking whiskey, but i'd rather be eating mushrooms.

 

[the seeker]

why not eat mushrooms then? why contradict yourself by saying alcohol is pointless and then drinking it?

 

[MasterOfDeception]

I see your point psychedelics can change you faster and much more easily.
Which is a knife that cuts both edges.

 

[FisheyeLens]

alcohol -- drink enough to have fun, can't drive
weed -- can drive unless totally BLAZED out of your head

alcohol -- doesn't make music sound better
weed -- makes music awesome

alcohol -- affects your Ph balance making you more susceptable to colds, flu etc. Very hard on your liver, lining of your stomach and causes cancer...you can also overdose...contains sugars that is not healthy
weed -- if smoked risk of lung cancer if you have an unhealthy diet (most people do), if eaten you get beneficial fiber (and EFAs?), easy on your liver, cannot overdose, analgesic effects in small doses, effective for nausia

alcohol -- makes people act stupid and rude
weed -- makes some people talk alot others just sit there

 

[psychetool]

^^
Response

Alcohol - DOENS'T make music sound better ? I disagree. I FUCKING LOVE to blast my favorite tunes when i'm drunk.
Weed - Makes great music sound great.

Weed - I can't drive at all until at least 3-5 hours later. Even if i'm still slightly high I don't think it's fair to put other drivers at risk.
Alcohol - Take a taxi! Or use a DD.

Alcohol - I'll admit its hard on your liver and immune system. Eat healthy, excercise, and drink!
Weed - No real physical side effects besides hungry and sleepy. As you said, perhaps a lung cancer risk.

Alcohol - Makes SOME people stupid and rude. Makes others outgoing and sociable.
Weed - Makes me just sit there. =p Makes most of my friends sit there too. It's good towards the end of the night but not for 'wake n baking' which was my daily ritual for literally like 4 years straight.

For instance I woke up EXTRA early today and am going out to cheer for my buddy on this huge marathon, am I going to be smoking weed ? No way! I'm going to be chugging vodka. Mmmm, good morning vodka. I'll smoke some weed when I get home and then go back to sleep.