Marijuana links with psychosis

[poledriver]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Blonde
And I'd wager that cannabis could cause a psychotic episode itself, minus predisposition.
Without a doubt.

Not sure about that. Maybe to someone with issues and if it was smoked and very strong hydro? If its eaten and average bush weed i doubt it.

 

[Sykik]

^
What mental illness do you have as a result of cannabis smoking?

Drug induced mania/bi-polar/other not fun stuff.

I can't speak for everyone. But some people think there isn't a risk, there are always risks with all drugs, if there was no risks, BL would not exist and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's sort of like a false positive test. I personally had no idea I was a *crazy* like someone said a few posts up before I actually got ill. This might be the case for the apparent 1% of the population, which is a giant percentage. 200 000 people in Australia approx that are *crazy's*.

So smoking weed can greatly increase the chances for these people to develop symptoms of these different mental illnesses. However you don't know that you're predisposed, or wouldn't believe it even if someone suggested you where, until it's too late and you develop it.

So it seems smoking Weed is just one giant test to see if your crazy. If you get crazy is the only conclusive answer. If you don't get sick, well that doesn't mean anything, it just might mean you haven't smoked enough for long enough to develop symptoms. OR it might mean you never will.

There doesn't seem to be any way to distinguish between those two possible conclusions of not getting Ill. All you can do is take your chances with statistics which suggests the latter in the current research. There are other issues with smoking in the long term as well. But I'm not going to get into that.

Now I am not anti-THC, I think it's a great drug, and can be awesome. But people need to understand the risks so they can make an educated decision. Once they have made that decision take some HR steps to improve the safety of smoking THC. Personally in my circles HR in THC consuming friends is near zero. While in my MDMA circles we always practise some form of HR, so it seems to me that the THC circles need to step up and start understanding the risks of their DOC before something *may* happen to them that they didn't expect.

 

[Jakeperson]

Not sure about that. Maybe to someone with issues and if it was smoked and very strong hydro? If its eaten and average bush weed i doubt it.

Obviously dose and strength are a factor but I know I have had psychosis from really average hydro, I did have a fair amount though with no tolerance.

Do you think because I am prone to psychosis from weed and stimulants that, that may put me at higher risk to develop a full blown mental illness?
When I was using weed daily I was convinced I was crazy for 6 months lol.

 

[yagecero]

Pot is definitely not for everyone, but this article is obviously flawed in many ways. Did anyone notice how many times they mentioned that alcohol does not have significant psychological effects on the developing mind? I find this aspect in particular to be absolute drivel. It is unfortunate that they can present a "study" such as this that doesn't present any new information whatsoever while still aiding the "war" against marijuana (and illegal substances in general).

I also question the data-set of the analyses that make up the meta-analysis. I would assume that in a number (perhaps all?) cases it would consist of people that have either presented themselves for counselling/therapy or have been forced into this situation by friends/family due to an "episode" or longer-sustained-mental illness. If this were the case, obviously the data presented is going to be skewed in this fashion.

The most logical answer to this supposed super-mental-illness-inducing-pot (totally debatable: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth.shtml) is to allow people to grow outdoor plants for personal use once over the age of eighteen (perhaps twenty-one). This would allow for a reduction in the levels of active compounds consumed (according to their argument) by smokers and also open the door to more realistic education based around the dangers of smoking during brain development and for those with a predisposition to mental illness.

Marijuana is not an entirely benign substance, and I reiterate that it is not for everyone, but the truth of the matter is that for the overwhelming majority of (adult) smokers it causes next-to-nil psychological issues and even non-smokers can see the horrors of the current legal drugs. Not only would the legalisation of outdoor pot allow healthy smokers to relax when they wanted to, it would utterly eradicate all crime related to marijuana. This is not to mention the medical uses that would be gained by those who are in need of them.

 

[Divine Moments]

Do you think because I am prone to psychosis from weed and stimulants that, that may put me at higher risk to develop a full blown mental illness?

Without a doubt, but nobody could give an accurate estimate of what that risk would be

Pot is definitely not for everyone, but this article is obviously flawed in many ways. Did anyone notice how many times they mentioned that alcohol does not have significant psychological effects on the developing mind? I find this aspect in particular to be absolute drivel. It is unfortunate that they can present a "study" such as this that doesn't present any new information whatsoever while still aiding the "war" against marijuana (and illegal substances in general).

All I could see was completely valid comments that "alcohol use alone [does] not appear to be significantly associated with a younger age at onset of psychosis". That in no way equates to "alcohol does not have significant psychological effects on the developing mind". It's widely acknowledged in the medical field that alcohol is bad for the developing brain

I also question the data-set of the analyses that make up the meta-analysis. I would assume that in a number (perhaps all?) cases it would consist of people that have either presented themselves for counselling/therapy or have been forced into this situation by friends/family due to an "episode" or longer-sustained-mental illness. If this were the case, obviously the data presented is going to be skewed in this fashion.

They're looking at people diagnosed with psychosis - that requires much more than 'presenting for counselling/therapy' and can't be forced upon someone by family or friends. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the study, I just don't think it presents much in the way of significant new information like is being claimed

 

[yagecero]

jejejeje, fair enough divine moments - I would almost call pot my muse, so I get WAY too defensive when a study is released to the public that portrays weed in such a negative manner. I don't mind admitting that I also tend to search for (and thus find) any information that serves my cause..

They're looking at people diagnosed with psychosis - that requires much more than 'presenting for counselling/therapy' and can't be forced upon someone by family or friends. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the study, I just don't think it presents much in the way of significant new information like is being claimed

I think you've hit the nail on the head concerning the lack of significant new information presented in the study. My problem is the way that is was presented in the media - a mere continuation of the demonisation of pot. Montages of coke bottle bongs and the like. I still have to stick with my comment of the data-set being skewed (I'm aware that the study itself is predominantly concerning the faster onset of psychosis in those that are predisposed, but suggestion through the media is a marvellous thing) because of the manner it is twisted during presentation to the public. Of course these patients are going to make pot seem terrible once the story is exposed to the public in this way.

There was a time in my life when I suffered drug (predominantly marijuana) induced psychosis (I have spoken to current friends working in the field about my past) and I NEVER spoke to anybody about this at the time. I changed my life (but continued to smoke weed at a much smaller dosage) and healed myself overtime. I had people begging me to "talk to someone" during this period, but got through it myself by creating a better reality. I've been assured that I "needed" treatment at the time, but I refused... My point is that I could have supported this study ten years ago (I would've been the perfect example of the horrors of marijuana), and could have been utilised by the media in the same way, but this wouldn't be very factual considering I healed myself without any assistance. How many other cases are out there like mine?

Anybody else gone through something similar? I continued to smoke while integrating myself back into the community and have been extremely successful with all of my endeavours. I might add that the only substances I have taken after these periods have been weed, mushrooms, LSD and Ayahuasca.

 

[flexmasta12]

I don't really think this told me anything i didn't know.

"Most of the patients involved had schizophrenia and, of those who were cannabis smokers, their diagnoses were seen to occur an average of 2.7 years earlier in their lives."

Pretty sure all of those people were destined to get the mental disorder anyway, and i'm pretty sure most people who get schizophrenia get diagnosed before they are in there 20's, and i cant say i know any smokers with schizophrenia. More so, i do have a cousin with schizophrenia, and prior he was the biggest straight going around, he for sure never smoked & i doubt he'd taken any other drugs either.

EDIT: should have read the posts before posting my reply =/
And just did a bit of googling on schizophrenia, found that amphetamines use can result in phychosis that is similiar to schizophrenia. Jakesperson, could that apply to you? hittin up that gear pipe probably had more to do with it then smoking a few billies.

 

[Jakeperson]

Yeah, it's not so much meth either, but with dexies, even small doses I am guaranteed a bout of psychosis. I have had the same psychosis from weed alone after not using any amphet for months though. I've had it from a few other stimulants too, just have to watch my stim intake a lot more these days.


I know some one with schizophrenia who smokes and uses meth, I don't think the weed effects him much but meth binges send him to the psych ward nearly every time.

 

[smaky_hampster]

There's an opinion article in today's The Age, National Times section which carries on further about this. The writer references the original study once or twice and mainly gives his personal opinions and personal experiences.

There is so much i don't agree with as i read through it, mainly i think because he writes using his 'opinion'. e.g. he talks about how he has seen so much mental and anti-social problems develop thru the use of Mara. This has been while doing years of work for 'community agencies'... Well Derrr!! Wouldn't it be reality that on average the clients of a support service would already have a high chance of having mental problems anyway? (if you know what i'm trying to say).

This guy would obviously have genuine concerns because he would be exposed to so much, but to me his arguments and reasoning sound too personal and emotional. He writes, "The research establishes that driving on cannabis is as risky as driving with a blood alcohol content of 0.05 or more. To those who think cannabis and cars mix: would you want your kids driven home from school by someone who has just had a bong?"

There's a wide range of comments to the article and some very good ones.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/so...hides-dangers-of-cannabis-20110214-1atkx.html

 

[thestudent14]

I have a friend in the army. He used to get high all the time. Stay baked for hours.

Then half way through his tour of duty, he was almost killed in Afghanistan while bomb hunting. He found one, late, and it blew him however far. He had a bad head injury. He recovered what I thought was completely and finished in Afghanistan.

His personality has totally changed. Now....He is stern. Can be fierce. and says he knows he can never smoke weed again. He wouldn't say why. Just that there was no way he could handle being high now.

Before he got hurt he would always talk about how good it would feel to get out of the army and celebrate by smoking a blunt. He stuck to all the army rules about drugs and didn't smoke after he went in.

After he got hurt, he changed his tune and now he won't touch marijuana. He almost seems to be afraid of what it might do, now that he has had such a traumatic injury to his mind.

I know it's not the same thing as the topic, so if the moderators, who are keeping the boards swept up, delete this, it's not a problem.

I just wonder about the effects of marijuana on brain trauma.

I don't wanna de-rail the thread so I'll keep this short, if your friend continues to suffer from this traumatic event and has Post Traumatic Stress MDMA has had more success then any other legal or illegal drug for clearing this problem, it allows patients to open up in ways that is very hard to do without the MDMA. Not saying it's definitely the best answer but it's definitely worth looking into and forwarding it to your mate. I'd be happy to give references to articles and such but I am currently away on holidays and don't really have the time. But I'm sure one of the mods could help you out if you want.

 

[psytaco]

I believe there is a 'link' between schizophrenia and cannibas use, but that it does not cause schizophrenia. there is yet to be anything in schizophrenia research that has been pointed out to be a cause. it is still not a well understood illness, and there is ongoing debate on whether schizophrenia is even one illness or alot of different illnesses with different causes and pathologies that have been lumped together as 'schizophrenia'. anyway thats by the by.

There are lots of different risk factors for people to develop schizophrenia. the more accepted ones are some sort of brain damage whilst the fetus is developing, genetic predispostion (ie. as with most mental illnesses the more genetically similiar relatives you have who have the mental illness the greater your chance), alot of stress in someones life, using certain drugs heavily. some of the other weirder ones that have been touted as risk factors are your mother having the flu when she was pregnant with you, you been conceived at a certain time of the year.

anyway, for most people they can have all these risk factors and never develop schizophrenia. or have very little other risk factors and smoke as much weed as they want and never develop schizophrenia. for others they may have a strong genetic disposition mixed with something else, and they will devleop it anyway regardless of smoking marijuana or not. for some, smoking marijuana heavily is the straw that broke the camels back. they had alot of other risk factors or something else going on that science hasn't identified yet, and them smoking marijuana heavily was what triggered schizophrenia.

So IMO marijuana can be used pretty safely by most people. it doesn't cause psychosis or schizophrenia but rather there is a 'casual' link between heavy marijuana use and schizophrenia. so far, no one has found anything other than casual links to developing schizophrenia. However, if you have close relatives with schizophrenia you would be wise to steer clear of smoking weed.

The link between marjiuana and schizophrenia is mainly for heavy use. so having the odd joint at a party shouldn't be a problem for anyone. but some people might have problems if they are using everyday. however, what constitutes 'heavy use' or not, I'm not sure on.

 

[psytaco]

In my own experience, I used to love weed when I was 15-16.

These days though I don't touch it. I would say 80% of the time I smoke it, it makes me excessively anxious, paranoid, and in some cases I get all sorts of paranoid delusions. To be honest, being sober is much more fun. It is interesting, because it never used to be a problem.

further, no other drug does this to me. I can take strong psychedelics like DMT, LSD, mushrooms and have a great trip, free of all the above. And so far (touch wood) I haven't had a bad trip. Ditto, I don't really get paranoid on speed until the comedown, and that only happens very rarely and isn't that bad.

Anyone else had a similiar experience?

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ I'm exactly the same as you... used to love it at a younger age, but now it gives me the exact same symptoms you described. Whereas I handle my psychedelics very well... it's strange, to say the least.

 

[Jakeperson]

I have the same symptoms with weed too. Abused heavily when I was younger. Psychs are the same though, pretty much always a difficult trip unless I am buy myself

 

[Divine Moments]

There is so much i don't agree with as i read through it, mainly i think because he writes using his 'opinion'. e.g. he talks about how he has seen so much mental and anti-social problems develop thru the use of Mara. This has been while doing years of work for 'community agencies'... Well Derrr!! Wouldn't it be reality that on average the clients of a support service would already have a high chance of having mental problems anyway? (if you know what i'm trying to say).

A good point

I don't wanna de-rail the thread so I'll keep this short, if your friend continues to suffer from this traumatic event and has Post Traumatic Stress MDMA has had more success then any other legal or illegal drug for clearing this problem, it allows patients to open up in ways that is very hard to do without the MDMA. Not saying it's definitely the best answer but it's definitely worth looking into and forwarding it to your mate. I'd be happy to give references to articles and such but I am currently away on holidays and don't really have the time. But I'm sure one of the mods could help you out if you want.

Should probably point out that this is for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy not recreational use. Also, it's way too early to say it "has had more success then any other legal or illegal drug for clearing this problem". Very promising though :D

it is still not a well understood illness, and there is ongoing debate on whether schizophrenia is even one illness or alot of different illnesses with different causes and pathologies that have been lumped together as 'schizophrenia'. anyway thats by the by.

I think this is most likely the case. There are many cases through history of multiple disease processes being grouped together as the same based on similar/identical presentations, especially with mental illnesses. I guess we can't really do this any other way until more is known and there's some way of investigating the cause/s. Psychiatry (and psychology) have a long way to go yet

There are lots of different risk factors for people to develop schizophrenia. the more accepted ones are some sort of brain damage whilst the fetus is developing, genetic predispostion (ie. as with most mental illnesses the more genetically similiar relatives you have who have the mental illness the greater your chance), alot of stress in someones life, using certain drugs heavily. some of the other weirder ones that have been touted as risk factors are your mother having the flu when she was pregnant with you, you been conceived at a certain time of the year.

anyway, for most people they can have all these risk factors and never develop schizophrenia. or have very little other risk factors and smoke as much weed as they want and never develop schizophrenia. for others they may have a strong genetic disposition mixed with something else, and they will devleop it anyway regardless of smoking marijuana or not. for some, smoking marijuana heavily is the straw that broke the camels back. they had alot of other risk factors or something else going on that science hasn't identified yet, and them smoking marijuana heavily was what triggered schizophrenia.

So IMO marijuana can be used pretty safely by most people. it doesn't cause psychosis or schizophrenia but rather there is a 'casual' link between heavy marijuana use and schizophrenia. so far, no one has found anything other than casual links to developing schizophrenia. However, if you have close relatives with schizophrenia you would be wise to steer clear of smoking weed.

You raise an important point which this research doesn't really address - the issue of causality. You're right about risk factors, they're simply statistical associations which may or may not have anything to do with the disease process itself (commonly a number of risk factors can be traced back to a single common feature). I believe that, as I think you implied, we can't truly know whether a risk factor is causal until we know how it's causal. For all we know it could just be that a certain population of people have a particular psychological or genetic makeup that independently predisposes them to both cannabis use and to developing schizophrenia. I'd say that's not at all unlikely. This sort of knowledge is probably decades away though. You all know why

 

[poledriver]

ahh well i guess alot of things can cause psychotic episodes -

Now it's energy drinks that doit too. So no pot and no energy drinks everyone! Got to stay safe lol...

energy drink linked to psychotic episodes

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Yeah I read that just before. I knew that a high caffeine dose could amplify and/or worsen manic episodes, doesn't surprise me it can do the same to psychotic symptoms. Perhaps to those who are sensitive to it.

 

[poledriver]

The stuff can cause problems for sure.

Reminded me of this 4 or so yrs ago ;

Guy who drank too many redbulls

 

[Mr Blonde]

Janelle Neath, head of communications at Red Bull Australia, said the recommended daily intake of two cans a day was regulated, due to the drink's level of niacin, a type of vitamin B, which produces its energy kick.
"Contrary to what most people think, it is not due to the caffeine," Ms Neath said.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/mans-heart-s...ll/story-e6frfkp9-1111114213642#ixzz1ETEmymTZ

That has got to be bullshit. Either the regulation on can consumption being due to niacin, or the energy kick coming from niacin. I can't figure out which one it is she is saying though.

 

[psynapsurfa]

the propblem i have with any of these claims is this....

when you survey 20,ooo people who have had a problem with marajuana, the results are going to show problems are inevitable....

if i did a survey on 20 000 people who smoked marajuana without any problems, then i could show that marajuana is perfectly safe....

it all depends on who you survey...

who is doin the surveying... who has invested money to pay the surveyors... who wants
what results..

i have never had psyche probs with grass, and out of a few hundred smokers that i know, only one or two people have had problems, that went away when they stopped smoking heavily, and they did not become scizophrenic...
i have never known someone to get schizophrenia from grass...

so anyway, study the results from a centre that deals with grass related psyche problems and you will reveal problems...