MA Heroin V We Overdraft Our Shit 2

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RaZkaL86 said:
also loved it when the "chain reaction" starts, when one patient was leaving cause his time was up or maybe was getting his SSI check and then they invite someone to go with them...then the "chain reaction" starts; another one wants to leave, then another before u know it there's 5 or 6 ppl hounding their counselors to get checked out!! Made me laugh...what's the fuckin point of going into detox if some schmo you probably just met in there probably there for the three hots & a cot or for R&R while you're there to attempt to get right with yourself tempts you with the awesome connect he has or getting paid...that's why when I usually called detoxes on the first of the month or the day before cause I could always score a bed, haha
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Oh god. When I was in detox over the summer just about everyone leaving left in pairs to get high. One guy that just got there told someone else he had a bundle out in his car, and then that guy wanted to leave and other people caught wind of the reason why and they all started jonesing. That guy wasn't looking for some other dude to leave with him so turned him down, but the guy that got turned down ended up leaving with some other girl who was there for her third time in 2 months, and since her insurance didn't cover it her rich mom swiped her credit card only to have that all go down the drain. I remember the girl going over her story with the guy. "OK, so we're telling your family that I am your sponsor and we just need some money to go out to eat after the NA meeting." When I got out I saw those two getting into the girls moms car, and the mom was yelling at her like I don't want this junkie coming in the car with us!

And other than those two, just about everybody left in pairs too, and just about everybody was vocal about going to get high right after they got out of detox since they couldn't get into the rehab (insurance is very tight about allowing people into rehab in NY, since you have to have a failed attempt in outpatient before being allowed into inpatient, so it's pretty stupid since they have to cover you for another detox after doing the first one and then getting strung out again in outpatient) and were complaining that 5 days of a methadone detox wouldn't do shit to keep them from feeling like shit when they got out. It was a very hopeless sight to see, and the alcoholics were all pretty shocked at how all the dope users were leaving to get high. I was given a phone number from one of the girls who wanted to get high with everybody after they got out (4 other people were completely down with getting high but I wasn't) and some other dude who said he sold dope and would hook me up, ha. I didn't relapse after leaving (well not right away anyway) and was probably one of the few that couldn't get into rehab that wasn't looking to score the second I got out.

One of the things I didn't get about the place was that the doctor offered you a suboxone prescription upon leaving if you stayed the full 4-5 days. Someone please tell me what is the point of getting on suboxone right after going to detox when you could just skip the $5-6K detox and just go straight to the suboxone doctor? Even when I was in outpatient there and slipped up a few times and was going to be put on suboxone my counselor asked if I needed to go to detox. I was like what's the point? I admitted that I had a slight habit but nothing I couldn't kick on my own, and also that all I needed to do was get by for another 10 days and then I would be set up with my script so there was no way I would waste a bed in detox when I was just going to be dependent on an opioid prescribed by them in a little over a week.

That's kinda when I lost faith in my counselors knowledge of addiction if she didn't get that suboxone takes care of withdrawals by also making you stay dependent on an opioid. That and she told me that I better not abuse my suboxone. I was like bitch, at this point in my addiction I barely feel suboxone and there is nothing I can do to change that, no matter the dose or ROA. That and I only took 4 of the 16mg I was prescribed anyway, and just used that 1 script to do a 2.5 month taper on my own anyway, so I never saw that doctor again and left outpatient shortly after getting that script.
 
Yeah, that five day detox sucks! At least the seven day ones actually give you a 48 hour head start from your last methadone dose....I remember the first one I ever went to in winter of 1997, I barely had a habit, I felt high from the meds the whole time!

A high dose of clonidine will still do strange things to me....
 
I usually chose the methadone over the clonidine when in detox...It usually made me feel great and I could eat with no probs. They would try to push you to FastTrack onto the outpatient methadone program which is in the same building@ Providence in Holyoke. I think out of the 12 or 13 times(not an exaggeration) I was in there, I went on FT about 3 times cause when I put myself into detox, it was to come out CLEAN---not detox then go on the done, where they jack you up as high as they can!! The most I ever went to was 105mgs and I had to take a nap about midday every day cause I was so fuckin high in dosage!! I settled into 70mgs and it was perfect. Back in '94 my sister who's a nurse anesthetist and lives in Texas sent me a ticket to go down there. Shit I wanted to cop a few buns and somehow smuggle them with me onto the plane but I chickened out...man, I was sooo pissed when I got to the security checkpoint I actually knew the guy and he knew me; I could've gotten away with it but how the hell di I know he was going to be the one checkin passengers...Anyways I flew down there and my sis had a bottle of clonidine ready for me, she knows all the drugs and their off-label uses. I was zonked most of the first week...a zombie...all I could do was eat and sleep, mostly sleep but it did the trick and after about 10 days dropping the dosage every day I was a new man!!! I quickly got a job and made a few new friends, but the fuckin dope never left my mind!!! I found myself checkin the local paper to see what part of town ppl were getting busted with dope. Down there is mostly Mexicans and while I look like a Mex, I speak Spanish but they would know instantly I wasn't from around there cause Mexican Spanish and Puerto Rican Spanish are very different. After about 3 months I was going nuts and said fuck it I'm going home; I was sooo homesick(ha) and my brother-in-law was being a dick anyways. I came back to MA and I seriously regret not stayin there. I might have made a new better life for myself but u know what they say: hindsight is 20/20...
 
They usually give you methadone and clonidine....They have a straight clonidine protocol with no methadone, but the methadone protocol usually calls for clonidine for the last few days...along with the other comfort meds...I've done that particular detox over 10 times...
 
BlueHues said:
They usually give you methadone and clonidine....They have a straight clonidine protocol with no methadone, but the methadone protocol usually calls for clonidine for the last few days...along with the other comfort meds...I've done that particular detox over 10 times...
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Yeah, provided you don't go into detox on a massive habit, you can kick fairly comfortably with a good methadone + clonidine protocol.
 
^yeah, the last few times, I was kicking pretty hard regardless. If the 40 mgs of methadone won't even hold you, you're better off on the straight clonidine protocol, which is brutal, but quick!
 
BlueHues said:
^yeah, the last few times, I was kicking pretty hard regardless. If the 40 mgs of methadone won't even hold you, you're better off on the straight clonidine protocol, which is brutal, but quick!
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Yeah the last place I was in, a lot of the junkies refused the methadone and just used the clonidine, because they didn't want to leave and just ending up sick from the methadone.
 
How does a quick methadone taper work? Like if it takes 50-80 mg to take the sick away how fast is the taper? Maybe I'm just a little high right now.
 
Welderman said:
How does a quick methadone taper work? Like if it takes 50-80 mg to take the sick away how fast is the taper? Maybe I'm just a little high right now.
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They wont give you that much no matter what. The typical opiate detox with a methadone protocol is 4-5 days. They start you on 20-30mg's, then you go to 15, then 10, then 5, then some places 2.5, or you leave at 0.

So most peoples habits are much larger than what 20-30mg's of methadone would take care of, which means that they are still pretty sick even after being on the methadone. Sometimes, it is literally pointless to take because it won't do shit. But if you have a medium sized habit, it will take the edge off enough to make it bearable.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
They wont give you that much no matter what. The typical opiate detox with a methadone protocol is 4-5 days. They start you on 20-30mg's, then you go to 15, then 10, then 5, then some places 2.5, or you leave at 0.

So most peoples habits are much larger than what 20-30mg's of methadone would take care of, which means that they are still pretty sick even after being on the methadone. Sometimes, it is literally pointless to take because it won't do shit. But if you have a medium sized habit, it will take the edge off enough to make it bearable.
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That's also why they want you to be really sick when you get there, so the meds should help. But some other places want you to be too sick, like the place that I went to 24 hours after my last dose and they told me to come back in another 24 hours or so. It would be pointless to go there over 48 hours into withdrawals as I would only be another day away from starting to feel better, so I never got in there. They didn't seem to get that the point of detox is to avoid feeling sick like that, not to endure two days of intense withdrawals and then be medicated for a few days then feel a little shitty again afterwards.
 
Tommyboy said:
That's also why they want you to be really sick when you get there, so the meds should help. But some other places want you to be too sick, like the place that I went to 24 hours after my last dose and they told me to come back in another 24 hours or so. It would be pointless to go there over 48 hours into withdrawals as I would only be another day away from starting to feel better, so I never got in there. They didn't seem to get that the point of detox is to avoid feeling sick like that, not to endure two days of intense withdrawals and then be medicated for a few days then feel a little shitty again afterwards.
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Yeah all the detoxes I know that people have actually been successful at, have been ones that keep you for a long enough time, and medicate you properly/taper you down slowly. The whole idea of, "we need to make detox hurt so people don't come back" is bullshit and almost never works IME
 
The rehab I went to didn't give anyone methadone for WD. They gave everyone either naltroxone/naloxone. I would say the majority of people left because of those pills. Even old junkies were coming out to say how bad it made them feel and they have never felt so bad during WD. They said it was to speed up the withdrawal process.

They gave us phenobarbital in high doses and it was very odd feeling.

I won't ever forget walking into my first AA meeting at that rehab and the first person I saw was my main drug dealer. That dealer wasn't like anyone else, I swear he was a sociopath.
 
^Are you actually serious, they gave you opiate antagonists and phenolbarbital?! The medical director of that detox must be a fucking quack!
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
Yeah all the detoxes I know that people have actually been successful at, have been ones that keep you for a long enough time, and medicate you properly/taper you down slowly. The whole idea of, "we need to make detox hurt so people don't come back" is bullshit and almost never works IME
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To make matters worse it was a good 2 hour drive away from me so I made that round trip twice without even getting in. The second time they seemed to be admitting me, took my vitals and history, put the bracelet on me, then a doctor saw me and after taking my vitals said I was not being accepted into their program at that time. My parents were considering just leaving me there until I was sicker since they new I was going to use once I got home since I was so sick, but my blood pressure wasn't high enough to be admitted there and we didn't know if I would ever be sick enough by their standards to get in. The other messed up part was that I had stopped taking my Valium too, so I really don't know how I still got turned away.

brutus said:
The rehab I went to didn't give anyone methadone for WD. They gave everyone either naltroxone/naloxone. I would say the majority of people left because of those pills. Even old junkies were coming out to say how bad it made them feel and they have never felt so bad during WD. They said it was to speed up the withdrawal process.

They gave us phenobarbital in high doses and it was very odd feeling.

I won't ever forget walking into my first AA meeting at that rehab and the first person I saw was my main drug dealer. That dealer wasn't like anyone else, I swear he was a sociopath.
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I've told the story of my naltrexone experience before. I had gotten a script when I was relatively clean. I had been good for a week then took one 30mg oxy on a Friday, 2mg of suboxone over the next two days, then was completely clean for 5 days. My withdrawals were over and I took one of the 50mg naltrexone pills and I pretty much new after 15 minutes that it was a mistake.

First my stomach got cramps, and then my anxiety got really bad where I just wanted to punch anything. I was so cranky that I had to tell my mom what was going on because I didn't want to get kicked out of my house on the count that I was being a dick. Then the puking started, and my muscles got so tight that I found myself fully stretching my body every couple of minutes. I felt like that for 3 days, got no sleep during that time, and then ended up using again to be able to sleep. Turns out you are supposed to wait 10 days after your last opiate before taking it. Some say 7 days and others say 14, so 10 is in the middle. 7 days may be alright for someone on a short acting opiate, and 14 is probably necessary if youve been on suboxone or methadone (I've read about people being clean from suboxone for over a week and going into precipitated withdrawals from taking the naltrexone then, so definitely more than a week to be safe) so I can't believe a detox would force you into withdrawals by giving you that so soon.
 
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