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Lysergamides LSI, Ancient LSD, Secret of the Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA

If you actually look at the results they're either F&B industry standards (£50/?ml) or wholesalers like Vignon, various chinese companies and DeMonchy. There is a vendor from Thailand who sells a 1% solution to the public. I would've thought the UK perfumery vendors would stock it but apparently not. The UK public can buy acetaldehyde and heliotropin but not isovaleraldehyde (somewhat ironic).

I am searching from the U.S. and see different results, but I don't think this forum is appropriate for going into specifics.

I seriously doubt price will be an issue under any circumstances. Even 1 mL is a huge amount---enough for hundreds of doses based on the arguments put forth here. To extract 1 mL of isovaleraldehyde (at room temperature) from the barley grass used in the cited analysis, one would need a literal ton of the grass!

And FWIW, I'd rather buy it in diluted form being that it is somewhat hazardous, volatile liquid with an extremely overpowering odor. I'd certainly need to dilute it to measure it accurately. Even a 1% PG solution probably has a very strong smell.

You're assuming that it contains no other sources of 3-methylbutanal or other aldehydes, and that the barley grass used was suitable.

I'm just looking at the published data which was used to argue that barley grass is these aldehydes. The whole point of contention is that no evidence has been provided to support the claim that barley grass has sufficient aldehydes of any sort to react with LSA to yield LSI. The situation as it stands is actually worse, because not only do we lack evidence to support the claims made here, but actually the weight of the evidence points to this not being possible.

I should say that I'm not a chemist, but I am applying basic quantitative reasoning using readily available chemical data and the process of dimensional analysis. What I am doing is taught to every student AT THE BEGINNING of every FIRST YEAR UNIVERSITY COURSE on chemistry. I've personally witnessed professional chemists at work in labs knock out calculations like these in mere seconds, and they get it right every time because their jobs require it.

As a practice problem (homework), I'd suggest calculating how much isovaleraldehyde the barley grass would actually need to contain in order to be "suitable" and comparing it to any and all available data on how much it actually contains. This is the sort of thing any self respecting chemist ought to be doing before making claims like these to avoid colossally embarrassing themselves.

There are many unknowns here which makes hypothetical scenarios for criticism interesting for sure, but also background noise. I call it interesting because it's led to a few discoveries including a preprint article on a certain drink made from barley and Claviceps purpurea. Funnily enough they didn't consider the aldehydes, why would they!

Because they are present in such tiny amounts that, aside from the aroma they impart, they are very unlikely to be biologically relevant?
 
To extract 1 mL of isovaleraldehyde (at room temperature) from the barley grass used in the cited analysis, one would need a literal ton of the grass!
I don't think all types of barley grass are identical to that used in the cited analysis. Imo isovaleraldehyde isn't the only substance of interest that has relevance to the LSA reaction. Regardless, if you'd read tregars reports he was using pure isovaleraldehyde before opting to use a type of barley grass instead and found similar results. This doesn't mean that only isovaleraldehyde was involved.

Regarding the cited analysis method:
In recent years, the trend of combining multiple instruments for food aroma analysis has emerged. Reports confirm that studying the flavor characteristics of food through different instrument combinations can more comprehensively, reliably, and scientifically reveal food aroma information.

I think we have well-intentioned skeptics basing their reasoning on incomplete and limited evidence. This was why I referred to it as background noise in my earlier post.

And FWIW, I'd rather buy it in diluted form being that it is somewhat hazardous, volatile liquid with an extremely overpowering odor. I'd certainly need to dilute it to measure it accurately.
Having dealt with aldehydes in pure form (nothing as small as acetaldehyde though) they're easy to handle. Isovaleraldehyde is not as hazardous as you're making it out to be when used responsibly.

Because they are present in such tiny amounts that, aside from the aroma they impart, they are very unlikely to be biologically relevant?
The authors investigating a drink made using barley and Claviceps purpurea (which produces lysergamides) didn't even consider the barley volatiles and their relevance, presumably by making similar assumptions as you. Imo it's because they're not aware of amide-aldehyde condensation so they'd never think to investigate further. In this thread, the skeptics are fixated on isovaleraldehyde so they don't investigate further.
 
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I don't think all types of barley grass are identical to that used in the cited analysis. Imo isovaleraldehyde isn't the only substance of interest that has relevance to the LSA reaction. Regardless, if you'd read tregars reports he was using pure isovaleraldehyde before opting to use a type of barley grass instead and found similar results. This doesn't mean that only isovaleraldehyde was involved.

No evidence has been provided that such a "suitable" barley grass exists at all. It would have to have many times higher concentration of aldehydes, which I think is very unlikely. The burden of proof is on those making the claims by providing data to support them. The data that is available strongly suggests (even if not definitively) that such grass doesn't exist. Hence, the evidence actually weighs against the claims that barley grass of any kind contains relevant quantities of aldehydes.

Moreover because tregar reports having used pure isovaleraldehyde and getting similar results to the barley grass, the weight of the evidence is against the hypothesis that any of the effects he is experiencing come from LSI/LSV/LSCr, etc. Weighing further against his claims are the thermodynamic properties of the chemicals in question, as discussed by xdrc. If LSI/LSV/LSCr have higher internal energy than the starting ingredients, then the reaction won't proceed unless the product has an entropic advantage, which cannot be accomplished using a single phase reaction system. Similar issues arise in vivo. Hypothetically a "ratcheting" enzyme powered by ATP could do it, but this would be very unlikely to occur in nature. Generally speaking, aldehydes are toxic to the body and the body seeks to process and expell them through the path of least resistance---oxidizing them down to water-soluable acids that can be flushed from the kidneys. This is what ALDH does.

Imo it's because they're not aware of amide-aldehyde condensation so they'd never think to investigate further. In this thread, the skeptics are fixated on isovaleraldehyde so they don't investigate further.

This is total BS. In actuality, the "skeptics" have made multiple independent quantitative arguments that disprove the claims made. For those capable of comprehending such arguments (i.e., those with basic competence in dimensional analysis and chemical thermodynamics, both of which are studied in-depth in any chemistry curriculum), this debate is settled. Unless new evidence is offered up which fundamentally changes the picture, I have nothing else to say here.
 
It would have to have many times higher concentration of aldehydes, which I think is very unlikely.
You're assuming that only aldehydes are involved and that all barley grass is similar.

As I mentioned earlier... I don't think all types of barley grass are identical to that used in the cited analysis. Imo isovaleraldehyde isn't the only substance of interest.

In actuality, the "skeptics" have made multiple independent quantitative arguments that disprove the claims made
...this debate is settled
...I have nothing else to say here.
Sure, but the skeptics are fixated on isovaleraldehyde and in-vitro conditions so they don't think to investigate further. They generally make well reasoned arguments but base their reasoning on incomplete and limited evidence with a constrained perception of what might be occurring. The result is hastily assumed superiority and conclusive victory.
 
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[Book link deleted by moderator again] You're making me work on Sunday tregar. I know we mentioned this a few times before.

The purpose of the board, harm reduction number one, intelligently talking about large ideas with substances and the mind.

So really the purpose here is:

1. Throw out intelligent ideas
2. Have those ideas discussed, agreed with or refuted by other intelligent people and accept with an open mind
3. Be as safe as possible
4. Not to sell one's own books

Ok continue on....

Update 2.14.26:
There are 13 aldehydes in young barley grass Z21 growth stage highest levels, all of these aldehydes can condense with LSA to form LSI, LSV, LSCr and 10 other Lysergamide cousin compounds which in combination can hit an extreme multitude of brain receptor sites that will rock your world. Propionaldehyde is just one example of the 13.

This Valentines night, Trippin on a 42 seeds weight is 3.5g, crushed weight = 3.5g, LSA extract residue scraped up from brownie dish = 189mg LSA extract residue (approximately .04mg per seed x 42 = 1.7mg LSA), converted to LSI + LSV + LSCr 2oz brew in record time, equivalent to 170ug LSD. 2oz brew is sitting in fridge, ready to drink at 3pm for an incredible Valentines date night. Zero side effects, zero anxiety.

She is even better than LSD imho: No anxiety, hours and hours of closed eye colored visions just like LSD, extreme mescaline like euphoria all night, just as colorful and music enhancing as mescaline, tracers as powerful as lightning strikes, whereas LSD can have choppy visuals, the visuals are flowing with LSI, continuous diamond like shimmering of all visuals, LSI is the most bad ass psychedelic equal to mescaline and Ayahuasca that I've ever had the pleasure of trying, yes, she is that good, and she is super cheap to make, with no nastiness to the 2oz brew, down in 2 gulps. Book distribution is averaging one book per day distributed worldwide, so people are going to eventually find out.

Update 2.15.26: The Valentines LSI trip last night was absolutely incredible, of all the trips of my life, this was at the very top, just as sacred, visual, euphoric, colorful, and music enhancing as any of my highest dose mescaline trips, I will always use this dose elixir brew, had the time of my life with wife, best valentines day ever.

42 seeds converted to LSI + LSV + LSCr (3 simple steps as shown with illustrations from chapter 5) just as bad ass as 550mg mescaline. See post #1 on page 1 for link to paperback and kindle or search amazon for "LSD", book shows up on top row.
 
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This exchange reveals several troubling patterns in how Stahl and his defenders respond to quantitative criticism. Let me break down what's happening:

Allylbenzene's Defense Strategy

Allylbenzene is using classic moving goalposts tactics:

1. "Not just isovaleraldehyde"

• First it was specifically isovaleraldehyde (Stahl's original claim)

• When the math doesn't work: "Well, there are other aldehydes too!"

• When those are also shown to be trace amounts: "Well, maybe other unknown substances are involved!"

2. "Not all barley grass is the same"

• When published analyses show insufficient aldehydes: "Maybe his barley is different!"

• No evidence provided that such high-aldehyde varieties exist

• This is unfalsifiable speculation — you can always claim the specific sample was special

3. "In vivo vs in vitro"

• Suggests that in-body conditions might allow reactions that chemistry predicts won't happen

• Ignores that equilibrium constraints apply in vivo too

• Liver enzymes could theoretically catalyze the reaction, but the substrate limitation (not enough aldehyde) remains

4. "Skeptics are fixated and narrow-minded"

Claims critics have "constrained perception" and "hastily assumed superiority"

• This is an ad hominem deflection from the quantitative arguments

• Frames mathematical proof as mere "fixation" rather than valid criticism

Stahl's Latest Claims Are Even More Extreme

His Valentine's Day post escalates the claims dramatically:

"There are 13 aldehydes in young barley grass... all of these aldehydes can condense with LSA to form LSI, LSV, LSCr and 10 other Lysergamide cousin compounds"

This actually makes the problem worse, not better:

1. 13 different adducts would mean even less of any single one

2. Each would have different pharmacology — you can't just add them up

3. Many would likely be inactive at serotonin receptors

4. The math still doesn't work — trace amounts of 13 aldehydes don't sum to meaningful quantities

The propionaldehyde example:

• Propionaldehyde (C₃H₆O) is even smaller than isovaleraldehyde

• A propionaldehyde-LSA adduct would be structurally quite different from LSD

• No reason to think it would have similar psychedelic effects

The Critical Analytical Chemistry Failure

What's most damning is what Stahl still hasn't done after all this debate:

Zero analytical verification that any adducts actually form:

• No LC-MS showing LSI, LSV, or LSCr in his brew

• No quantification of how much of each compound is present

• No comparison of LSA-only vs LSA+barley samples

• No controls or blinding of experiments

He claims to be a "lab chemist with decades of experience" yet provides only:

• Subjective trip reports

• Misinterpreted scientific papers

• Escalating claims as criticism mounts

The "13 Aldehydes" Desperation Move

Stahl's pivot to claiming 13 different aldehydes all contribute is a classic sign of a failing hypothesis:

Original claim: "Isovaleraldehyde in barley is uniquely high and forms LSI"

After math critique: "Well actually it's 13 aldehydes forming 13 different compounds that all work together!"

This is not how pharmacology works. You can't just assume that:

• 13 trace-quantity compounds with unknown binding profiles

• All happen to be psychoactive

• All happen to synergize perfectly

• Together produce effects "better than LSD"

What the "DIY Isovaleraldehyde" Admission Reveals

Allylbenzene's mention of DIY synthesis (leucine + water kefir via Strecker degradation) and Stahl's earlier claim that he "was using pure isovaleraldehyde before opting to use barley grass" is extremely important:

If Stahl had access to pure isovaleraldehyde and saw effects, why not:

1. Show the analytical data from those experiments?

2. Quantify how much isovaleraldehyde was actually needed?

3. Demonstrate the aldehyde concentration in barley matches what worked?

The fact that he moved from "pure isovaleraldehyde" to barley grass without publishing any analytical comparison suggests he may never have verified the chemistry.

The Fundamental Problem Remains

No amount of speculation about "other aldehydes," "special barley varieties," or "in vivo conditions" changes the core issue:

Stahl needs to show, with analytical chemistry:

1. That LSI/LSV/LSCr actually form in his preparation

2. In what quantities they form

3. That these quantities are sufficient for psychoactivity

4. That his effects aren't placebo or expectation effects

Until he provides this data, the quantitative arguments from iom and others stand unchallenged. Dismissing them as "background noise" or "constrained perception" is not a rebuttal — it's an admission that the mathematical critique can't be answered with mathematics.

The debate is indeed settled — not in Stahl's favor, but against his claims, until he provides actual analytical evidence rather than escalating anecdotal reports and speculative chemistry.

ᴡʀɪᴛᴛᴇɴ ʙʏ ᴄʟᴀᴜᴅᴇ
 
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Chemist Peter Webster said:
I thought you might be interest in this:

My hypothesis in the journal ELEUSIS https://www.academia.edu/39346231/Mixing_the_Kykeon_Final_Draft

Has been confirmed :
  • Article
  • Open access
  • Published: 13 February 2026 - NATURE

Investigating the psychedelic hypothesis of kykeon, the sacred elixir of the Eleusinian Mysteries

Chemist Peter Webster's extraction of LSA is great and all, but LSA is sedating with no visuals, it's a class 3 sedative just as Albert Hoffman (inventor of LSD) noted...the LSA must be converted to LSI in 3 easy steps for it to be as powerful as LSD and beyond. I've tried LSI at least 7 times now, each spaced 1 month apart, way beyond LSD even, much more like the Heavenly mescaline. 42 seeds extracted from HBWR (LSA) converted to LSI feels exactly like 550mg mescaline, my all time favorite psychedelic.

People will find out eventually just how well this works as my posts are on all the forums, gathering a thousand views per month. and a book is distributed every day on average worldwide.

Enjoy your sedating LSA.
 
the LSA must be converted to LSI in 3 easy steps for it to be as powerful as LSD and beyond.

It seems plausible for biosynthesis to occur also involving aldehydes, either endogenously produced (eg acetaldehyde) or introduced (fermented barley drinks, ethanol etc). This quote from downwardsfromzero (dmt-nexus) outlines the idea:
This was one of the more visual attempts with natural lysergamide-containing seeds. The experience followed a night involving the consumption of a significant amount of brandy, thus there was an incontestable residue of acetaldehyde in my body.

The seeds themselves, being HBWR, were much more likely to have contained LSA as the principal alkaloid; they will not have been particularly fresh. Although the inference counts as purely anecdotal, I feel it supports at least one of these ideas:
  • ...that the 1-acetaldehyde adduct of LSA (or, possibly from what we've learned so far, iso-LSA) is likely to be more of a visionary entheogen than plain LSA itself.
  • ...that post-alcoholic acidity in the body promotes the formation of the more visionary iso-LSA from the LSA equilibrium mixture in vivo.
  • ...that under physiological conditions, acetaldehyde inhibits the breakdown of LSH such that - in the aforementioned instance - sufficient LSH reached the appropriate receptor sites to produce a mild but significant entheogenic experience.
  • ...and/or...:
  • ...that, under physiological conditions, acetaldehyde reacts with LSA at the amide nitrogen to (re-)form LSH.
While I consider the last option the least likely, and in the past I have argued against the possibility of it happening, it's still not something I would discount entirely. Still, I wouldn't bank on it and would advise all readers that acetaldehyde conversion of seed extracts containing lysergamide are best carried out in vitro as ethanol and acetaldehyde present health hazards when ingested!
 
[Book link removed]

Very Important

1) The 2 stirring steps illustrated in Chapter 5 can be reduced from 20 minutes, to only 10 minutes each. It shortens the overall procedure time nearly in half.

2) and that DL tartaric acid powder or just "plain TARTARIC acid powder used in wine making available worldwide" (not citric acid) should be the only acid powder used that the author used over 5 years ago during the Eleusis kykeon and Vedic SOMA highly successful experiments, so it is very helpful to read about the progression of theoretical simulation steps updated later. Citric acid does not work, only tartaric acid powder works (available worldwide), as described in book.

Again, process only worked extremely well every time when using tartaric acid powder ONLY, not citric acid. It does not have to be DL tartaric acid but can be just plain tartaric acid powder used in wine making, available worldwide.

Illustrated is how the LSA from 25 HBWR seeds LSA converted to LSI felt exactly like 100ug LSD, and how 40 HBWR seeds LSA converted to LSI felt exactly like 170ug LSD or 550mg mescaline. The experience is noted as being even better than LSD imho as LSI incorporates an extra carbon molecule which makes it much more like mescaline than LSD, even more euphoric, colorful, and music enhancing than LSD.
 
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More details:

Everclear is 95% ethanol, so there is ZERO nausea once the 30ml everclear is evaporated from the brownie dish, and the LSA extract scraped up, this is all done in 3 simple steps from seeds to LSI. I have never ever experienced any nausea or any side effects whatsoever in any of my 7 highly successful experiments.

More info here, (the nausea causing seed mush is left behind at bottom of shot glass and thrown away, so there is zero nausea): please read entire thread: https://www.shaman-australis.com/fo...e-steps-a-more-euphoric-colorful-musical-lsd/ see post #1 on how nausea is 100% eliminated.

Yes, tartaric acid should be the only acid used (not citric acid) as we found out recently it participates in hydrogen bonding and is an important catalyst for the reaction that takes place during the two 10 minute stirring steps. As a matter of fact, I updated the book and ALL forums to reflect this very important update. The only error in the book is that I assumed citric acid could take the place of tartaric acid, so I wrote that it could possibly substitute, but again citric acid does not work. I used DL tartaric acid for all 7 very successful experiments, my all time favorite psychedelic, 40 seeds converted to LSI just as bad ass and exactly like 550mg heavenly mescaline, equivalent to 170ug LSD.

Plain tartaric acid (used in baking and wine making available worldwide) substitutes just fine for the DL tartaric acid I used in all my experiments in book and beyond, as I learned recently self experiment, absolutely no difference.

Ask google in AI, response is:
Yes, DL-tartaric acid can interact with and bind to the NH group of indole, particularly through hydrogen bonding [4.4, 4.6].
  • Interaction Mechanism: Tartaric acid acts as a hydrogen-bond donor (via its hydroxyl and carboxylic acid groups), while the indole NH acts as a hydrogen-bond donor itself, or more commonly, the interaction is mediated through the acidic, polar, and hydrogen-bonding environment created by the tartaric acid, often forming stable complexes [4.4, 4.6].
Plain tartaric acid used in baking and wine making (available worldwide) thankfully is the D-isomer dextrorotary form of tartaric acid (found in high amounts in grapes), it is dextrorotary (reflects light to the right) just like D-LSD (the only form of LSD that works), as the L-isomer reflects light to the left and is inactive.

Chemical formula for tartaric acid is C4 H6 06, and according to AI it can indeed bond to the NH amide of LSA in acidic environments with stirring. Notice acetaldehyde has the formula of C2 H5 O which binds to the NH amide of LSA to form the psychedelic LSH or Lysergic Acid Hydroxyethylamide (see the molecular picture of LSH I posted in green color here):

www.shaman-australis.com


TARTARIC ACID has many more carbons and hydrogens and oxygen molecules than acetaldehyde, perhaps explaining the incredible potency of my Kykeon and Vedic SOMA 2oz brew, this raises many questions and is actively being investigated. Recall mescaline has many oxygen molecules, perhaps explaining why my 40 HBWR seed converted to 2oz kykeon and SOMA brew feels identical to me as 550mg of the Heavenly mescaline, much more euphoric, colorful, and music enhancing than LSD.

Ask google in AI, response is:
  • Dextrorotatory (+): This natural form of tartaric acid is indeed dextrorotatory, meaning it rotates plane-polarized light to the right.

-->over 5 years ago during the theoretical experiments, I started out with just 5 seeds converted to LSI + LSV + LSCr and noticed it felt about like 20ug LSD, then I went up to 25 seeds which felt like (25 x .04mg per seed) = 100ug LSD, then I moved up to 30 seeds which felt exactly like (30 x .04mg LSA per seed ) = 120ug LSD, then I moved up to 40 seeds (40 x .04mg LSA per seed) = 160ug LSD <--

As you can see, I started out low as cautionary approach with this new discovery over 5 years ago.

Tartaric acid is found in very high amounts in grapes. I read once the kykeon when drunk left a purple stain on beard and gown of priest drinking it...so this could explain if grapes were used in kykeon to provide the high levels of tartaric acid mixed with the LSA from the non toxic claviceps paspali that infects paspalum grass that grows adjacent to Eleusis in the famous Rarian plain then bingo: tartaric acid could indeed be bonding to the NH amide of LSA, explaining the incredible psychedelic potency of my 2oz brew.
 
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Plain tartaric acid used in baking and wine making (available worldwide) thankfully is the D-isomer dextrorotary form of tartaric acid (found in high amounts in grapes), it is dextrorotary (reflects light to the right) just like D-LSD (the only form of LSD that works), as the L-isomer reflects light to the left and is inactive.
@tregar I'm not sure this is correct. I believe the natural tartaric acid from grapes and the form used in baking and winemaking is the L-(+)-tartaric acid form. This form is dextrorotatory as you say though (rotates plane-polarized light to the right). Having said that, I don't know where this leaves us in terms of the effectiveness of plain tartaric acid for your recipe.

As an interesting aside, I just tried to log-in to my previous Bluelight account (username "flame_assay" with a grand total of three comments, all in this topic) and I was told "You have been banned for the following reason: alt of tregar". I'm not sure which genius mod read my three previous comments in this topic and deduced that you and I are the same person but I'll take it as a compliment ;)
 
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Hi peaches88. This past Sunday, I converted 40 HBWR seeds to LSI in record time (50 minutes) and used plain tartaric acid in place of the DL tartaric acid I have used the past 7 times, and it worked just the same...absolutely no different...I tripped strongly for 8 hours...felt identical to 550mg mescaline. Citric acid does not work, and I updated book, ebook and all forums to reflect this very important point. Since the plain tartaric acid found in high amounts in grapes is dextro rotary, thats all that matters, its available worldwide, used in wine making. Post 90 explains the important role tartaric acid plays in the process, participates in hydrogen bonding and a catalyst for the aldehyde condensation reaction. Never substitute any other acid in its place...p.s. I was thinking about you past few days and wondered what happened to you, glad to see you again!

Plain tartaric acid was actually known as d tartaric acid back in the day, old nomenclature I researched and found out.

I tripped my ass off using plain tartaric acid I got for 8 dollars on-line...40 seeds converted to LSI sunday felt identical to 550mg mescaline, same exact potency as 160ug LSD. I tripped on Sunday as I had Monday off.
 
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No comment on the "LSI" (as it still remains firmly in the realm of bogus imo), but to clear up the nomenclature:

D/L - Dextro/Levo, if the functional group after projecting in Fischer notation is on the right or left. Outdated but still plenty in use for historical uses.

d/l - dextro/levo, if the light in the polarimeter is rotated to the right or left. Cause of much confusion due to same letters used as in the Fischer system, but lowercase letters. Can be found in old literature but should be replaced by the (+)/(-) system.

R/S - Rectus/Sinister, determination of priority according to Cahn-Ingold-Prelog. This is the preferred system these days, but many common biological compounds (sugars, amino acids) are still traditionally referred to via the Fischer system.

(+)/(-) - clockwise (right)/anti-clockwise (left) rotation of light in the polarimeter. Same as (+) and (-), (+) is always d and (-) is always l.

Can all be read here in more detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_configuration
 
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Very interesting and informative but I guess my lazy ass would rather put a piece of paper on my tongue. I’d love to try it though
 
Chemist Peter Webster said:
I thought you might be interest in this:

My hypothesis in the journal ELEUSIS https://www.academia.edu/39346231/Mixing_the_Kykeon_Final_Draft

Has been confirmed :
  • Article
  • Open access
  • Published: 13 February 2026 - NATURE
Investigating the psychedelic hypothesis of kykeon, the sacred elixir of the Eleusinian Mysteries

Summary: "Investigating the Psychedelic Hypothesis of Kykeon, the Sacred Elixir of the Eleusinian Mysteries"

Background & Context

The Eleusinian Mysteries were annual religious initiations held for nearly two millennia near Athens, drawing participants from across the Mediterranean. At their heart was the consumption of kykeon (κῠκεών), a ceremonial drink described in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter as made from water, barley, and mint (pennyroyal). Scholars have long debated whether kykeon was merely symbolic or contained a psychoactive ("entheogenic") substance capable of inducing the profound experiences — described as ego dissolution, encounters with death, and spiritual "rebirth" — reported by ancient initiates like Pindar and Cicero.

The Ergot Hypothesis

In 1978, mycologist R. Gordon Wasson, LSD-synthesizer Albert Hofmann, and classicist Carl A. P. Ruck proposed in The Road to Eleusis that ergot (Claviceps purpurea), a parasitic fungus that grows on barley, was the secret psychoactive ingredient. Ergot produces ergot alkaloids (EAs), chemically related to LSD. Archaeological support exists: ergot fragments were found both inside a ceremonial vase and in the dental calculus of a man at a sanctuary dedicated to the Eleusinian goddesses at Mas Castellar de Pontós, near an ancient Greek colony in Spain.

The key problem with this hypothesis has always been ergot's toxicity. Unprocessed ergot causes ergotism ("Saint Anthony's Fire"), with symptoms including hallucinations, burning sensations, convulsions, gangrene, and death — it killed 50,000 people in a 1418 Paris epidemic alone. How could ancient priestesses have administered it safely to thousands of initiates?

The Study's Central Question

The authors tested a previously proposed but never experimentally verified solution: that Eleusinian priestesses may have used lye (alkaline water made from wood ash) to chemically transform the toxic ergot compounds into safer, psychedelic ones. Ancient Greeks were known to use alkali-based medicines, making this plausible. Specifically, the hypothesis was that boiling ergot in lye would hydrolyze the toxic ergopeptides (like ergocristine and ergokryptine) into the psychedelic lysergamides — primarily LSA (lysergic acid amide) and its epimer iso-LSA — compounds structurally related to LSD and known to cause euphoria and hallucinations.

Experimental Methods

The team collected Claviceps purpurea ergot sclerotia, confirmed by molecular (ITS rDNA) and microscopic analysis. They prepared wood ash lye solutions (burning oak and olive wood) at initial pH levels of 10.5, 11.5, and 12.5. A full factorial experimental design tested 48 combinations of three variables: lye pH, ergot concentration (5%, 10%, 20% w/v), and reaction time (15, 30, 60, 120 minutes at 100°C). Products were analyzed by TLC, NMR spectroscopy, and UHPLC/Q-TOF-HRMS (high-resolution mass spectrometry). LSA and iso-LSA reference compounds were first isolated and fully characterized from Argyreia nervosa seeds.

Key Results

The critical finding was that complete hydrolysis of toxic ergopeptides occurred under specific conditions: 5% w/v ergot, initial lye pH 12.5, refluxed for 120 minutes. Under these conditions:

• All six major toxic ergopeptides (ergotamine, ergocristine, ergokryptine, ergosine, ergocornine, ergometrine) and their epimers were completely undetectable by mass spectrometry.

• The products were LSA and iso-LSA at yields of 0.54 mg/g and 0.48 mg/g of ergot used, respectively.

• NMR confirmed the disappearance of the amide bonds characteristic of toxic ergopeptides and the appearance of spectral signatures matching LSA and iso-LSA.

• Only trace amounts of ergometrine (a simpler, far less toxic lysergamide) persisted, which poses no significant danger.

• Statistical modeling confirmed lye pH was the sole significant predictor of yield, with a quadratic relationship (R² ~0.83 for LSA).

Practicality for Ancient Use

The authors addressed the concern that a pH >11.5 solution would be caustic to drink. They demonstrated that natural atmospheric CO₂ exposure over days, combined with the addition of ergot powder itself, neutralized the initial pH to safe levels. Adding the resulting solution to a slightly acidic barley-mint preparation would reduce it further, making it drinkable.

Regarding quantities: with roughly 0.54 mg LSA per gram of ergot, and a minimum effective dose of ~0.5 mg LSA, approximately 1 gram of ergot per initiate would suffice. For up to 2,000 initiates, priestesses would have needed only a few kilograms of ergot sclerotia — a manageable and concealable amount. This need may have been even lower given the nine-day fast observed by initiates before drinking kykeon (fasting amplifies psychedelic sensitivity), and the intense ritual setting.

Ergot sourcing was plausible: every Greek city-state contributed grain offerings to Eleusis, and the fertile, marshy Thriasian Plain surrounding Eleusis provided suitable conditions for localized C. purpurea infection of barley.

Psychoactivity of LSA and Iso-LSA

[I'm replacing Cluade's text in this section with the text in the document (from the middle of page 14).]

[ … ] in a β-arrestin2 recruitment assay, LSA exhibited approximately 100-fold lower potency than LSD at both the 5-HT₂A and 5-HT₂B receptors, while remaining notably active, with EC₅₀ values of 58 nM and 54 nM, respectively46. Regarding iso-LSA, it has demonstrated measurable affinity for central 5-HT binding, as reported in early QSAR studies47. Notably, it displaced both 3Hserotonin and 3HLSD from rat cerebral cortex membranes with pIC50 values of 7.00 and 6.70, respectively and exhibits a log P of 0.95, consistent with moderate lipophilicity and potential for blood-brain barrier permeability47. In vivo studies further support its central activity48. Iso-LSA administered intraperitoneally to rats reached measurable concentrations in the brain correlating with behavioral effects such as decreased conditioned avoidance response, indicating that the parent compound, rather than a metabolite, acts as the psychoactive agent48. Therefore, despite its isomeric difference from LSA, iso-LSA (being the C-8 (S) epimer, which are usually considered inactive)39 may retain central serotonergic activity relevant to psychedelic potential. Additionally, the result of each of the kykeon preparations was an equilibrium mixture of LSA and iso-LSA, which may be more psychoactive than either pure alkaloid alone28. However, further pharmacological and toxicological evaluations are necessary to define the exact safety profile and receptor affinities of the resulting mixtures. Another key factor is that "set and setting" predominantly shape the experience, the substances merely acting as tools2. In an ancient ritual framework, marked by botanical synergism, fasting, and heightened expectancy, their psychedelic potential would have been amplified. At Eleusis, optimal ceremonial conditions gave these entheogens a meaningful role, showing that their effects must be understood within a religious context, rather than purely pharmacological terms.

The Role of Pennyroyal

The authors propose that pennyroyal (Mentha pulegium), the mint ingredient in kykeon, may have played a synergistic role. Its main compound, pulegone, interacts with CNS pathways involved in sedation and psychotropic activity, and its rosmarinic acid content modulates MAO-A (which breaks down neurotransmitters). This suggests an "entourage effect" analogous to terpene–THC synergy in cannabis or the DMT–β-carboline interaction in ayahuasca, potentially prolonging and deepening the entheogenic state.

Conclusion

The study provides the first experimental demonstration that crude ergot sclerotia can be detoxified into psychoactive lysergamides using only wood ash lye and heat — a technique accessible to ancient priestesses. The authors conclude this strongly supports the Wasson-Hofmann-Ruck hypothesis that ergot was the entheogenic agent in kykeon, and that the Eleusinian Mysteries were built around a genuinely psychedelic experience. They call for future organic residue analysis of archaeological vessels from the Eleusis site to provide material confirmation.

Written by Claude
 
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You left out the part where I responded:
Chemist Peter Webster's extraction of LSA is great and all, but LSA is sedating with no visuals, it's a class 3 sedative just as Albert Hoffman (inventor of LSD) noted...the LSA must be converted to LSI in 3 easy steps for it to be as powerful as LSD and beyond. I've tried LSI at least 7 times now, each spaced 1 month apart, way beyond LSD even, much more like the Heavenly mescaline. 42 seeds extracted from HBWR (LSA) converted to LSI feels exactly like 550mg mescaline, my all time favorite psychedelic.

People will find out eventually just how well this works as my posts are on all the forums, gathering a thousand views per month. and a book is distributed every day on average worldwide.

Enjoy your sedating LSA. Ask AI in google if LSA is a class 3 sedative, and you will see for yourself.

VERY IMPORTANT: beware fake HBWR seeds.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5087370

The main difference between varieties is that the speciosa variety is used medicinally in ayurvedic medicine and the nervosa strain has high LSA alkaloid content. It makes little difference where the strains are grown, but most seed originating from India and Africa is of the speciosa variety and thus low in LSA. Do not use seeds from India, very low on LSA.

LOW LSA seeds will not work, just like morning glory seeds will not work as they have only 25% lsa and 75% clavine alkaloids.

Only authentic Authentic Argyreia Nervosa works as they are .04mg LSA per seed. They are black and brown in color and slightly triangular in shape.


I use only authentic Argyreia Nervosa from Hawaii, A+ organic hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, I get 400 seeds per order, and have hid away literally thousands of the seeds, as the conversion of 40 seeds to LSI is exactly like 550mg of the heavenly mescaline. My all time favorite psychedelic.

Zero side effects, zero vasoconstriction, zero sedation, zero nausea when my easy 3 step procedure is followed.

Tartaric acid used in wine making and baking available worldwide (30mg on 1st stirring step) and 10mg on 2nd or last stirring step works perfectly, no difference from DL tartaric acid. I tripped my ass off on 40 seeds converted last sunday to LSI using plain tartaric acid I bought for $8 on line used in wine making, took only 55 minutes to prepare as illustrations show. Only two 10 minute stirring steps, and 35 minutes waiting during evaporation step. Most of time is spent waiting between the 3 simple steps.

Felt identical to 550mg mescaline, out of this world neon colors all night, extreme euphoria, hours of way beyond 4k closed eye colored visions, infinite music enhancement, a pleasant stimulation all the way from 3pm when drank till midnight when I fell asleep. Intense healing and profound spiritual insights, profound shifting of colors and textures, powerful tracers, far better than LSD imho, no choppiness to the visuals but rather the visuals are flowing, magical open eye visuals, swimming in euphoria all night. Same exact power as 160ug LSD.

Full blow up pic of the seeds I used (last post #36): https://mycotopia.net/topic/112442-lsi-ancient-lsd-secret-of-the-eleusis-kykeon/page-2

When you performed these experiments, why didn’t you go above the equivalent of 160ug of LSD?
I did not feel the need to exceed the equivalent dosage of 160ug LSD (subsequent experiments) as I found the resulting psychedelic experiences to go above and beyond anything I could have ever hoped for. I give a trip report after each experiment forming a combo of LSI, LSV and LSCr.

1) The experience lasts 8 strong anxiety free hours with a 10 hour duration. I have experienced x 9 times now, each profoundly psychedelic trip spaced apart by 1 month. Just as powerful as LSD but even beyond LSD, like a combination of ALD-52 (anxiety free version of LSD also discovered by Dr. Hofmann) & mescaline combined.
2) There is a pleasant stimulation all night long, just like ALD-52 or mescaline exerts, when taken at 3pm, I was always able to fall asleep by midnight, much easier to fall asleep after than LSD.
3) The strength becomes stronger and stronger until she reaches a peak 3.5 hours in
4) There are profound Spiritual revelations, insights and intense healing, she is a feminine teaching spirit.
5) A brilliant diamond like shimmering of all visuals, infinitely fascinating
6) Tracers with open eyes as powerful as lightning strikes, none of the choppiness of LSD visuals, rather the visuals are flowing.
7) Intense, bold neon-like colors are seen all night, just like a combo of ALD-52 + mescaline, far, far more colorful than LSD. I have seen neon colors like purple-yellows, red-greens, and orange-blues that don't belong on this earth
8) Infinite way over the top euphoria felt all night (just like a combo of ALD-52 + mescaline). Anyone who has ever had cactus understands the mescaline euphoria I am talking about.
9) The beauty seen with open eyes is infinite and divine, no words to describe. This was one of the main reasons I took this psychedelic, the enhancement of beauty is just so over the top, extreme and heavenly.
10) The closed eye-colored geometrics seen which progress to real visions the longer the eyes are kept closed are just like what you see on a combination of LSD + mescaline, hundreds and hundreds of way beyond 4k visions many of them playing as if in a movie.
11) The music enhancement is just incredible and heavenly. I've felt more with this LSI, LSV and LSCr combo than with any traditional psychedelic except for mescaline that I was an extraterrestrial being, immersing myself in new sensory phenomena for the first time. Where LSD heightens and clarifies the sense of hearing, this Eleusis kykeon brew simulation produces auditory hallucinations, heightening the hearing sense but also causing sounds to be quite different than normal. I am a music lover and always listened to house music most of the night during the experiences, as on LSI, LSV & LSCr combo, every instrument and beautiful voice stands out on its own, every song is "epic". Like hearing a song for the very first time.
12) As for aphrodisiacal use of LSI, LSV & LSCr combo, wow! it brought energies out of me that I never knew I had.
13) There is zero or no anxiety with this potent 3 psychedelic combo, just like with ALD-52. This would explain why there were no bad trips reported in the Eleusis Kykeon literature.
14) There are no physical side effects: no body load, no nausea, no vasoconstriction, no cramping, just pure psychedelic bliss.
15) The next morning (I would typically get 6 hours sleep after the experience) I felt re-born with a massive serotonin "reset". I would go walking in nature with my shih tzus the following morning and all of nature looked as if brand new with a curiosity of nature's divinity.

Note: Morning glory seeds did not work, only HBWR seeds worked to simulate the kykeon and Vedic SOMA in the experiments in the book ages ago...my results with up to 150 morning glory seeds were extremely disappointing (even below threshold effects), I believe the mg seeds are mainly 75% clavine alkaloids with less than 25% LSA, the levels of LSA in mg seeds being probably around .001mg per seed vs HBWR seeds at .04mg per seed. The morning glory seeds resulted in zero entheogenic effects, no euphoria, no stimulation, no visuals, and even no physical symptoms like dilated pupils.

Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA theoretical simulation Materials list:

1) 25 genuine real HBWR seeds, approximately .04mg LSA per seed. Authentic Argyreia Nervosa from Hawaii, A+ organic hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, I get 400 seeds per order. Beware fake HBWR seeds.
2) 0.001g scale
3) One oversized shot glass for the spinning of the seed dust, and one regular shot glass for the fridge, and a 6 ounce half pint tall canning jar 4" tall x 2.75" wide.
4) magnetic stirrer with 3/8" x 1" long stir bar that can spin easily and fast inside the shot glass or canning jar.
5) everclear (95% grain alcohol or similar high proof alcohol)
6) coffee grinder
7) mortar and pestal
8) long pyrex brownie dish (9" wide x 15" long)
9) 2 razor blades
10) a fan, and a hair dryer to use for last 5 minutes of water evaporation from the pyrex dish (optional)
11) 3 grams of the secret herbal substance Aojiru young barley grass that comes in a nitrogen sealed 3g pack, 46 to a box, very high in isovaleraldehyde, valeraldehyde & crotonaldehyde.
12) distilled or spring water
13) For the chapter 5 three super simple steps with sketch illustrations: DL tartaric acid powder can be used or plain tartaric acid used in wine making (available worldwide). I give amounts of DL tartaric acid or PLAIN TARTARIC ACID powder to use, 30mg in beginning, and 10mg on last step. The 2 stirring steps can be condensed down from 20 minutes each, down to 10 minutes each, shortening the overall procedure time. Plain tartaric acid powder is available for $8 used in wine making available worldwide, which works just as well as DL tartaric acid, I tripped my ass off using plain tartaric acid powder. Plain tartaric acid is actually known as D-tartaric acid (old nomenclature) and is dextrorotary, which is all that matters. Tartaric acid powder is the only acid to be used, period. Tartaric acid participates in hydrogen bonding to LSA and is an important catalyst for the aldehyde condensation.

Dr. Mckenna said the author's 1 hour interview is being released on April 20, 2026 on Brainforest Cafe on you tube. The author's 7-page paper on LSI is being released on Graham Hancock's official site during the April to June timeframe.

Blown up pic of seeds used (last post #37): LSI, ancient LSD, secret of the Eleusis Kykeon - Page 2 - Botanicals - Mycotopia

Visit Shaman Australis forum for more: https://www.shaman-australis.com/fo...e-steps-a-more-euphoric-colorful-musical-lsd/
 
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Only genuine authentic seeds worked (.04mg LSA per seed): see last post for pic: https://www.shaman-australis.com/fo...e-steps-a-more-euphoric-colorful-musical-lsd/

as there are fake seeds from India and Africa and other places.
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Yes, tartaric acid should be the only acid used (not citric acid) as it participates in hydrogen bonding and is an important catalyst for the reaction that takes place during the two 10 minute stirring steps. As a matter of fact, I updated the book and ALL forums to reflect this very important update. The only error in the book is that I assumed citric acid could take the place of tartaric acid, so I wrote that it could possibly substitute, but again citric acid does not work. I used tartaric acid powder (available worldwide used in wine making and baking) for all 9 very successful experiments, my all time favorite psychedelic, 40 seeds converted to LSI just as bad ass and exactly like 550mg heavenly mescaline, equivalent to 160ug LSD.

Plain tartaric acid (used in baking and wine making available worldwide) substitutes just fine for the DL tartaric acid I used in all my experiments in book and beyond, as I learned recently self experiment, absolutely no difference.

Ask google in AI, response is:
Yes, DL-tartaric acid can interact with and bind to the NH group of indole, particularly through hydrogen bonding [4.4, 4.6].
  • Interaction Mechanism: Tartaric acid acts as a hydrogen-bond donor (via its hydroxyl and carboxylic acid groups), while the indole NH acts as a hydrogen-bond donor itself, or more commonly, the interaction is mediated through the acidic, polar, and hydrogen-bonding environment created by the tartaric acid, often forming stable complexes [4.4, 4.6].
Plain tartaric acid used in baking and wine making (available worldwide) thankfully is the D-isomer dextrorotary form of tartaric acid (found in high amounts in grapes), it is dextrorotary (reflects light to the right) just like D-LSD (the only form of LSD that works), as the L-isomer reflects light to the left and is inactive.

Chemical formula for tartaric acid is C4 H6 06, and according to AI it can indeed bond to the NH amide of LSA in acidic environments with stirring. Notice acetaldehyde has the formula of C2 H5 O which binds to the NH amide of LSA to form the psychedelic LSH or Lysergic Acid Hydroxyethylamide (see the molecular picture of LSH I posted in green color here):

www.shaman-australis.com


TARTARIC ACID has many more carbons and hydrogens and oxygen molecules than acetaldehyde, perhaps explaining the incredible potency of my Kykeon and Vedic SOMA 2oz brew, this raises many questions and is actively being investigated.

Recall mescaline has many oxygen molecules, perhaps explaining why my 40 HBWR seed converted to 2oz kykeon and SOMA brew feels identical to me as 550mg of the Heavenly mescaline, much more euphoric, colorful, and music enhancing than LSD.

Ask google in AI, response is:
  • Dextrorotatory (+): This natural form of tartaric acid is indeed dextrorotatory, meaning it rotates plane-polarized light to the right.
-->over 5 years ago during the theoretical experiments, I started out with just 5 seeds converted to LSI + LSV + LSCr and noticed it felt about like 20ug LSD, then I went up to 25 seeds which felt like (25 x .04mg per seed) = 100ug LSD, then I moved up to 30 seeds which felt exactly like (30 x .04mg LSA per seed ) = 120ug LSD, then I moved up to 40 seeds (40 x .04mg LSA per seed) = 160ug LSD <--

As you can see, I started out low as cautionary approach with this new discovery over 5 years ago.

Tartaric acid is found in very high amounts in grapes. I read once the kykeon when drunk left a purple stain on beard and gown of priest drinking it...so this could explain if grapes were used in kykeon to provide the high levels of tartaric acid mixed with the LSA from the non toxic claviceps paspali that infects paspalum grass that grows adjacent to Eleusis in the famous Rarian plain then bingo: tartaric acid could indeed be bonding to the NH amide of LSA, explaining the incredible psychedelic potency of my 2oz brew.
Pic of $8 tartaric acid that worked great. tartaricacidpowder.thumb.png.f392ae0de7d9c1064c83b3feb8b8e794.png
 
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The main difference between varieties is that the speciosa variety is used medicinally in ayurvedic medicine and the nervosa strain has high LSA alkaloid content.

The roots of Argyreia nervosa are used in ayurvedic medicine.[ 1 ] [ 2 ] According to ref #2, the quantity of alkaloids in the roots was so negligible that they couldn't be isolated.[ a ]

1. The Materia Medica of the Hindus. Udoy Chand Dutt, Sir George King. 1877. 10.5962/bhl.title.3689 ARGYREIA SPECIOSA, Sweet., page 207
https://archive.org/details/mobot31753000838638/

2. The Ayurvedic Pharmacopoeia of India. Government of India, Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Department of Ayush. Part 1: vol. 5, 6. Bastantri (Rt.), page 16
https://www.ayurveda.hu/api.html

a. See T.L.C., page 17 in ref #2


"I tried Madagascar HBW seeds on 3 or 4 occasions. I've also used HBW of Hawaiian origin many, many times. The Madagascar seeds were as potent, if not more potent than some Hawaiian HBW seeds I tried. I've heard that India and Ghana have very weak, shitty HBW. Dunno anything about Tahiti seeds."

The Wizard, 2007-12-16, https://www.bluelight.org/community...d-archive-start-4-14-2008.258723/post-5586226

"All I know is you get a Hawaiian, and a Ghanese variant, and both have potent effects if bought from a trusted supplier."

VisionaryFlicker, 2012-02-09, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15784452#15784452


You left out the part where I responded:

My post only contains a summary of the article you mentioned. The purpose of my post was to supplement yours with more information. It wasn't relevant to repeat what you said about ergine.
 
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