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LSD ,= NO LETHAL DOSE

I dont see that that story of a 55mg dose is unbelievable. Yeah, the "average" person does not have LSD crystal just lying around but we don't know that she was an average person - some people do, or at least know people who would. There is no information given about her actual life, or whether this dose was in some way verified, the paper referenced is behind a paywall but does allude to information taken from health records, although whether this included blood tests as in the other article I referenced is unknown without seeing the full paper.

However her symptoms seem consistent somewhat with the 200mg upper limit survival dose that had actually been recorded that I worked out earlier, specifically the frequent vomiting. Maybe this is even on the milder end but realistically my 200mg calculation is probably an underestimate too because the measurements were no doubt taken some time after the dose.

The figure given for the dose is quite a specific one and seems strange it would be this specific without the unwitting subject in question being someone who weighs their dosages - even of cocaine - or, hopefully, some kind of scientific verification.

Apart from the idea of someone having LSD crystal lying around, which I concede is unlikely, but not impossible - it has happened before after all - is there anything else in the article that indicates it's not a factual report? If there is I don't see it.

I'll add that trip duration in itself is not much of an indicator as everyone reacts to drugs differently, ultra-high dose LSD included.
 
EVERYTHING has an LD50, including water and vitamins.
Some just have lethal doses so high it's impossible to inject that much. Like, to die from a cannabis OD (real weed, I mean, not that synthetic "spice" shit) you would have to smoke 15 kilograms in 15 minutes.
For benzo's (benzo's ALONE, they will easily kill you with other CNS depressants like opioids or alcohol) a nurse once joked with me that you have to swallow so many pills so quickly that's you'd be WWAAAYYYYYY more likely to choke to death on the pills than actually have a fatal OD.
Barbiturates, however, can kill you in amounts as low as a triple the prescription dose.
 
Water kills. Anything can kill. But with LSD it takes a lot. I am fuzzy on what actual physical mechanism would cause an LSD death.

Vastness when you put it that way it then it sounds logical. Maybe this woman wasn't a normal woman'and had crystal laying around. Some other parts of the story set off my detector though. I am still rereading it. So hard to tell what to fully believe these days. My opinion for sure is not definitive, but I am glad that TripSitter also had his bs detector go off. I can only hope it is true you know?
 
Xorkoth said:
That hasn't been my experience. Any drug has a half life, after which half of the active dose will have been eliminated, leaving the other half still active. Simple math tells you that if you take, say, 20mg of something, after 1 half life 10mg will be left, then 5mg after the next one, etc. At some point the dose still remaining is below the active dose and you aren't high anymore. If you taek, instead, 40mg, then after the first half life, there is 20mg left, then 10mg, then 5mg... there is an entire extra half life of an active dose left in the brain.
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I'm not an expert so I wanted to ask, just to maybe clarify this a bit: isn't your assertion and maths dependent on the bioavailability of any given psychotropic and also on how it is metabolised?
 
The largest recorded OD of LSD where they snorted lines, and is documented, they were all fine in 12 hours. Explain that, not with "your friend said", but with actual facts. Please show me documented case where a large dose caused a multi day trip. Not LSD psychosis or HPPD either. Maybe if you took some funky RC like DOx chems or bromo dragonfly, not LSD though.



Coma, Hyperthermia and Bleeding Associated with Massive LSD Overdose: A Report of Eight Cases - PMC

Eight patients were seen within 15 minutes of intranasal self-administration of large amounts of pure D-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) tartrate powder. Emesis and collapse occurred along with signs of sympathetic overactivity, hyperthermia, coma ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Increasing the dose of LSD does not prolong the trip. It just makes it more intense. I swallowed a fairly massive dose to avoid getting caught with it and going to jail and I fully expected a 2 day trip because bullshit myths like this and i was totally fine in 10 hours. Remembering everything will be ok in 12 hours is important. Its why you don't go to the hospital if things go bad, because it will all be over in a couple of hours. You can carve that in stone.
 
Wait there's something wrong with that calculation. If a person snorts a line thinking it is cocaine, that line must be like at least 20-30mg. And that would be
20.000-30.000 uq no? I don't understand these things, ''normal within 12 hours with no residual effects''

When I do like 150-200uq, I still have residual effects after 16-18 hours. And so far, my trip has never ended after 10-12 hours :D
 
That reddit quote says 10-70 hits per every 100mL of blood plasma so presumably they're referencing the same paper I used as a source on the previous page of this thread, which reported 1000-7000ug per 100mL plasma.

The actual dose consumed would be higher - the way I tried to calculate it, just for clarity, was:

There are 10 x 100mL in a litre (obviously), and an average of 5L of blood volume in a person (according to google) and an average of 58% of that blood volume is plasma (also according to google). So, 7mg x 10 x 5 x 0.58 = 203mg, so 2030 hits assuming a hit is 100ug. Obviously this assumes 100% absorption and also that the measurements were taken right after dosing, which presumably they weren't, but that's a lower limit of the initial dose.

One thing I was unsure about is that this does actually seem like quite a fat line to me. I was about to say that, presumably, LSD is a denser molecule than cocaine - but in fact a quick google reveals the density of LSD to be (apparently) 1.2±0.1g per cubic centimeter... and another slightly longer google reveals a secondary source which claims the density of cocaine HCl to be the same... 1.2±0.1g per cubic centimeter! So presumably, interestingly, lines of pure crystal LSD should actually look basically the same as lines of cocaine (although the texture, smell and other things might be different).

Maybe this adds some weight to the idea of people getting them mixed them up... and maybe they did a few lines before realising, maybe they had a cocaine tolerance, who knows. I'm going to stereotype certain drug users negatively here so forgive me in advance, but I think with the kind of people who just leave piles of crystal LSD lying around in an environment where people are snorting other identical looking white powders.... well, organisation may already not be their strong suit, so it's not a huge leap that having already - fairly irresponsibly, it must be said - left this powder of an extremely potent, valuable and apparently potentially dangerous hallucinogen (arguments about it's physical lethality notwithstanding) just lying somewhere, presumably unlabelled - they then proceeded to mix it up with something else.
 
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That medical story has been debunked before about 8 people snorting lines. You cant even detect LSD within blood plasma after 4-6 hours.

Long term LSD users and oldschool users all know That a 500 ug trip will have you tripping for 16-18 hours 100 ug 10-12 hours 250 ug 12-16 hours.

1000 ug the peak alone is 8-12 hours of disconnection from reality with another 8-10 hours of strong visuals.
 
Do you have a source for this debunking? Please post it if so.

Your comments regarding the detection of LSD in the blood also do not seem to be correct. Detection of LSD in the blood is for sure a challenge but this is largely due to the very low doses typically consumed - larger doses will be detectable for longer. I tried to find a source for the half life of LSD but this seems a little unclear and I've seen values between 175 minutes and 3.6 hours so it might be safe to say that the metabolism of LSD is complex. However there are many examples of LSD being detected in the blood after far longer than 4-6 hours.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325480#how-long-does-acid-stay-in-your-system - references primary source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5591798/
In a recent study, researchers took 13 blood samples within 24 hours of administering LSD. They kept the samples at below freezing temperatures and analyzed them within 12 months.

The researchers could detect LSD in samples taken up to 16 hours after administration in all the participants who had received 200 micrograms (mcg) of LSD.

In those who had received 100 mcg of LSD, the researchers could detect the drug in samples taken up to 8 hours after administration.

The amount of detectable LSD in the samples decreased over time in both groups. In the group who had received 100 mcg of LSD, the researchers could only detect the drug in 9 out of 24 samples after 16 hours.
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In fact not quoted in the somewhat more easily palatable article above, but in the actual paper, is an even longer detection time of 24 hours after a single 100 mcg dose:
LSD could be quantified up to 8, 10, 12, 16, and 24 h in 24, 23, 22, 9, and one subject, respectively.
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Contrary to popular opinion, LSD, and especially it's metabolites, are detectable for even longer, especially in other bodily fluids - so I include this information more as a point of interest, although I think it does serve to demonstrate that the detection difficulties when it comes to LSD are related entirely to the miniscule doses used rather than anything intrisincally undetectable or special about LSD itself.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4772267/
The elimination half‐life for LSD is 3.6 h. LSD and its metabolites are reported to be detectable in the urine for as long as 4 days after ingestion [108]. Using a radioimmunoassay (RIA) screening test (cut‐off at 0.1 ng/mL) the detection limit for 100 μg LSD p.o. is usually around 30 h. Each doubling of the initial amount will add about 5 h [109].
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This section in the paper is actually regarding LSD detection in urine, rather than blood, although the sentence quoted is a little unclear what is being referred to. However the paper referenced (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10357201) actually does include blood as one of the bodily fluids that such a radioimmunoassay would be effective on, with a lower detection limit of 1 picogram per 25mL of blood.

Granted, this technique is probably expensive and may be little more than a proof of concept even now, let alone whenever these titanic blood plasma dosages were measured. But it does serve to illustrate that the detection threshold is likely a lot lower than most people think, and with titanic doses it's likely to be detectable for some time longer than the 24 hours maximum that has actually been demonstrated (again - this was for a single 100 ug dose).

I will note finally that it makes perfect sense that LSD would be detectable for some time given the long duration of effects. I won't bother quoting any more papers since it's not directly relevant to the argument, but it has been demonstrated that LSD persists in the body far longer than was originally thought, especially in the brain, where it mediates it's effects by latching permanently onto the serotonin receptor, only being released when the receptor is pulled back into the synapse for recycling. Once this happens, the LSD still needs to traverse the body's metabolic processes before being broken down and leaving entirely, even if the brain's homeostatic mechanisms will have essentially killed the trip by this point.

There are, additionally, forensic techniques that have identified LSD in brain tissue in the deceased - which is obviously interesting since one might presume the LSD molecule to be too fragile to survive long in a deceased body (just to be clear, LSD wasn't the cause of death, and no-one ever tried to claim it was, so although other substances may have been involved - this is again more of an academic curiosity as it relates to the topic under discussion).
 
I'm imagining somebody in a lab getting liquid all over their skin. Other than that say you took a few grams, you might die of thirst. I know at high doses I always got dry mouth
 
It‘s possible, folks, to have a 2 day experience. Period. no one can tell you hard facts about duration, as our bodies are actually very different from each others’.
I’ve had such a thing, and been in touch with the producer who NEVER sold an RC as LSD. Get out of the science for a bit and into the experiential— reports count, as do differences in metabolism, etc. Think about dolphins’ top speed, or bumblebees, or sprites; some of these don’t follow a model that can be calculated at all, yet they perform outside of these models. There are outliers.

Just because someone has not experienced x, does not rule x out from the possible set of outcomes, especially when talking PDs.
I respect everyone that says they’ve had prolonged trips, and those that don’t.
It’s all well within the wide range of human possibility.
cheers,
 
Xorkoth said:
There is one documented case of acute LSD poisoning resulting in death. The user had crystal LSD and mistakenly injected 300mg (which is 3000 standard doses of well-dosed blotter) into their veins, thinking it was speed.
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Sounds more like an urban myth to me. That amount of LSD would cost thousands, so the user accidentally being sold that as speed is unlikely.
 
Cosmic Charlie said:
Took what was around 3.6mgs if LSD in 2008 in the form of 36 WoW blotters <cops crashed the party and I swallowed everything on me fast> could have been more or less but based in the 100ugs being the average it's what I will go with. That trip lasted for over two days the afterglow much longer. During the peak I blacked out for awhile. I'd taken 20 blotters at once maybe 2 or 3 times and ten strips on the regular in those days. Some of the best LSD I've ever had back in those days and it flowed like water. This drug is pretty safe in comparison to most. I'd probably never 1000ugs again as it's a waste and the intensity is so powerful at that level the massive doses are pretty unnecessary.
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I have been told from people who took very large doses of LSD that they blacked out and do not remember most of the experience.
 
High doses definitely last longer than lower doses. How long a trip lasts will depend on the individual as well as when exactly you decide a trip has officially stopped. Most of my trips wouldn't have a set time where it would abruptly end but rather they would gradually trail off leaving it subjective when you want to say the trip is over and the after effects can last several days.

Those reports being posted in this thread of people taking huge doses, even if true, are not properly supporting the case of the 12 hour trip regardless of dose argument. For example the one with the woman, it says for the second 12 hour period she was "pleasantly high" and still vomiting. Sorry but being so high you're vomiting doesn't count as sober. Just because the trip had calmed down to a point where she started enjoying it by that time, doesn't mean it was over.

As for the people snorting lines, it says they regained the ability to talk after 5 hours. Again, sorry but tripping so hard you can't talk and then being completely sober 7 hours later doesn't add up. How do you know that by "normal" it doesn't mean that after 12 hours they were able to behave normally? The ability to behave normally doesn't mean the trip was over, as some people could behave normally throughout an entire trip if they only took a couple hits. All it means is that the heaviest part of the trip was over. They probably were still quite altered at that time.
 
Limey said:
Sounds more like an urban myth to me. That amount of LSD would cost thousands, so the user accidentally being sold that as speed is unlikely.
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There is a report on it, you can find the link on Erowid. It was presumably someone who had a lot of crystal LSD as well as speed, it wasn't that someone got sold LSD by accident, obviously that would never happen.
 
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