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Low daily doses of ibogaine to block addictive behavor?

MeDieViL

MeDieViL

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I'm not really addicted to anything, but tried enough times to take my adhd meds properly without succes, witch leaves me half the month without amphetamine and the other half in a state that isnt very therapeutic for ADHD.

Ibogaine apperantly cures drug craving, i was wondering wheter it would work in low daily doses? Either way i will try it soon.
 
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Do you have any articles on the effectiveness of repetitive low doses? I'll admit I don't know much about the compound but always thought it required a long breakthrough journey to reset the reward centers in your brain, followed by some intense counseling right after the trip to ensure that you recognize and avoid the mentality that caused you to develop an addiction in the first place.

I feel like daily dosing is just replacing one drug addiction with another no?
 
for the simple reason that doctors and treatment providers have found that small daily—and thus drug-company-friendly—doses seem to work better for meth addiction than the mind-blowing "flood doses" used on opiate addicts.
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Havent seen the source for this tough.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-11-17/news/ibogaine-hallucingen-heroin/6/

Its probably the nicotinic antagonism that reverses addiction, low daily doses should antagonize it enough too.

Not really an addiction, id see it the same as taking an antidepressant or something.
 
Wizzle said:
Has taking nMDAR-Antagonists by itself reduced symptoms? Theoretically the DAR-upregulation should.
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Tolerance isnt a concern for me with the use of nmda antagonists, withdrawals are greatly reduced, its just my addictive behavor that is the only issue left.
 
Its probably the nicotinic antagonism that reverses addiction, low daily doses should antagonize it enough too.

Not really an addiction, id see it the same as taking an antidepressant or something.
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Hmmm I see small doses produce stimulation as well. Leads more towards just replacing the amphetamines but also more likely to work I suppose. Will be interesting to see the results.
 
amapola said:
Hmmm I see small doses produce stimulation as well. Leads more towards just replacing the amphetamines but also more likely to work I suppose. Will be interesting to see the results.
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I doubt thats the case, as selective antagonists of the receptor ibogaine works on, work excellent in rodents for addiction.
 
amapola said:
followed by some intense counseling right after the trip to ensure that you recognize and avoid the mentality that caused you to develop an addiction in the first place.
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Addiction is mainly caused by drug craving, tolerance and withdrawals, all of wich are induced by the drug, i beleive drug addiction is mostly a neurological problem, seeing how rodents get addicted too, but who knows, they have been raised badly by daddy and developped a bad mentality.

Changing mentality definatly helps, but the core of the issue is imo in the brain.
 
amapola said:
Haha it's all in the brain ;)

Not to derail the thread but speaking of addiction in rodents are you familiar with the Rat Park study.
To summarize happy rats refuse heroin (allegedly).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
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Well, without trying the drug first, there isnt craving, wich is induced by differend pathways like creb and basicly programs the drug in the brain, every addict has times he thinks he better does not take the drug but addiction take over so he does, would this still be the case with the complete lack of tolerance, craving and withdrawals?

Yes, i would be a happy rat too, still i love the feeling and addiction makes me keep on taking it untill i run out, thats still in line with my own theory.
 
I ment its in the brain in a forced way, because of induction of several pathways, not in the way like " i feel like getting high".
 
amapola said:
Haha it's all in the brain ;)

Not to derail the thread but speaking of addiction in rodents are you familiar with the Rat Park study.
To summarize happy rats refuse heroin (allegedly).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
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Oeps i misread, well what can be said to be happy rats? ppl with a high dopamine receptor density dislike drugs, and monkey's too, that doesnt defeat my theory tough.
 
In the study the rats were forced to consume morphine for several months before being introduced to the park and still when given the choice they chose non-morphine water. I'm not saying it is completely correct of course. Yet when people say they are addicted to something like nicotine, it make me think of how I have the habit of tapping my pen when working. Both bloody difficult habits to break and only one has any drug involved.
 
amapola said:
In the study the rats were forced to consume morphine for several months before being introduced to the park and still when given the choice they chose non-morphine water. I'm not saying it is completely correct of course. Yet when people say they are addicted to something like nicotine, it make me think of how I have the habit of tapping my pen when working. Both bloody difficult habits to break and only one has any drug involved.
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Well, monkey's and humans with a high dopamine receptor density dislike drugs, it doesnt defeat my theory, as in real life some ppl never get addicted and other get easily addicted, i beleive that is because the "easy" ones, are more affected by drug induced changes, by the lower dopamine density as atleast one contributing factor.
 
amapola said:
In the study the rats were forced to consume morphine for several months before being introduced to the park and still when given the choice they chose non-morphine water. I'm not saying it is completely correct of course. Yet when people say they are addicted to something like nicotine, it make me think of how I have the habit of tapping my pen when working. Both bloody difficult habits to break and only one has any drug involved.
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If nicotine users experienced the same effects of a real drug addiction, i doubt many would stay addicted tbh.
 
MeDieViL said:
Well, without trying the drug first, there isnt craving, wich is induced by differend pathways like creb and basicly programs the drug in the brain, every addict has times he thinks he better does not take the drug but addiction take over so he does, would this still be the case with the complete lack of tolerance, craving and withdrawals?

Yes, i would be a happy rat too, still i love the feeling and addiction makes me keep on taking it untill i run out, thats still in line with my own theory.
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Yes introspectively contemplating to take the drug or not... One of the weirdest feelings.
 
From my understanding of iboga experiences the inner change comes from the 36 hour hellride and not from the effects the substance physically has on your brain
 
rakketakke said:
Yes introspectively contemplating to take the drug or not... One of the weirdest feelings.
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I dont have any doubts that willpower, attitude, motivation etc all play major roles in developping a drug addiction, however i do beleive that adaptive drug induced changes are the major player.
 
^Xayo said:
From my understanding of iboga experiences the inner change comes from the 36 hour hellride and not from the effects the substance physically has on your brain
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A analogue of ibogaine that just acts as a nicotinic antagonists produces the same anti addictive changes in rodents, also research has shown that this receptor plays a major role in drug addiction, i'm pretty sure its something neurological, simular to how the nmda system mediates drug tolerance.
 
Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2003 Jun;75(3):607-18.
Anti-addictive actions of an iboga alkaloid congener: a novel mechanism for a novel treatment.
Maisonneuve IM, Glick SD.

Center for Neuropharmacology and Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, MC-136, 47 New Scotland Avenue, Albany, NY 12208, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
18-Methoxycoronaridine (18-MC), a novel iboga alkaloid congener that decreases drug self-administration in several animal models, may be a potential treatment for multiple forms of drug abuse. In animal models, 18-MC reduced intravenous morphine, cocaine, methamphetamine and nicotine self-administration, oral alcohol and nicotine intake, and attenuated signs of opioid withdrawal, but had no effect on responding for a nondrug reinforcer (water) and produced no apparent toxicity [Brain Res. 719 (1996) 29; NeuroReport 11 (2000) 2013; Pharmacol. Biochem. Behav. 58 (1997) 615; Psychopharmacology (Berl.) 139 (1998) 274; NeuroReport 9 (1998) 1283; Ann. N. Y. Acad. Sci. 914 (2000) 369]. Consistent with a relationship among drug sensitization, mesolimbic dopamine, and drug-seeking behavior, 18-MC also blocked the sensitized dopamine responses to morphine and cocaine in the nucleus accumbens. An extensive series of receptor studies showed that 18-MC was most potent and somewhat selective as an antagonist at alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors. Low-dose combinations of 18-MC with other drugs known to have this same action (e.g., mecamylamine, dextromethorphan, bupropion) decreased morphine, methamphetamine, and nicotine self-administration in rats at doses that were ineffective if administered alone. Together, the data support the hypothesis that diencephalic pathways having high densities of alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors modulate mesocorticolimbic pathways more directly involved in drug reinforcement. Antagonists of alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors may represent a totally novel approach to treating multiple addictive disorders, and 18-MC might be the first of a new class of synthetic agents acting via this novel mechanism and having a broad spectrum of activity.
 
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