Benzos Looking for a drug like klonopin or Xanax, only lasts longer.

[D-isomerSpeedy]

Wow...deffinatly gives me a lot of info to think about and talk to my P Doc about. Maybe multiple doses per day, or some other medication. Thank you very much for all the helpful and informative info.

 

[Scrofula]

I can speak from experience that lorazepam is the choice for post-ictal treatment. But that's probably because of its shorter duration.

It's just like the competitors of Aleve point out: "what if my headache comes back?" (It's a fair complaint, since the PI says you can have max 3 in 24hrs.)

It's harder to treat prn with diazepam if it's still in your system. You'd need a seperate med for breakthrough seizures.

So that's how a long-lasting benzo has a much shorter "duration of action."

EDIT: and OP, let's see:

stim + benzo = anxious.

no stim + bemzp = sleepy/groggy

I suggest maybe:

no stim + no benzo = just right?

 

[Lorne???]

^ No, am just tired of repeating myself, when the info is widely available. And as someone who takes benzodiazepines and has had (apperantly severe) and multiple, even back to back tonic-clinics, allium isn't effective for that purpose, and it's often mentioned metabolite is more "intermediate" acting. (And is also not great as a mild/partial agonist)

http://www.hamiltonhealthsciences.ca/workfiles/basehospital/diazepam.pdf

This states that dzp has a duration of ~3 hours, despite slow elimination

Things like solubility, VD, biphasic distribution and receptor binding half-life are more important than t1/2

IV/IM Buprenorphine has a t1/2 that is pretty much the same as oxycodone3.4 hours mean, yet it lasts longer, because of lower solubility, it enters the CNS more slowly, and so exits more slowly, and combined with a slower disaccotion from receptors it has more time to exert effects. And so many studies put oxy at, or closer to 50 than 70

It is just basic, non debatable facts of pharmacology and dynamics

 

[Lorne???]

I can speak from experience that lorazepam is the choice for post-ictal treatment. But that's probably because of its shorter duration.

It's just like the competitors of Aleve point out: "what if my headache comes back?" (It's a fair complaint, since the PI says you can have max 3 in 24hrs.)

It's harder to treat prn with diazepam if it's still in your system. You'd need a seperate med for breakthrough seizures.

You snuck a reply! However Lorazepam is both more reliable at terminating seizures, and has a longer lasting anti-convulsant effect.

Have studied this thouroughly

Epileptics who were close to me, went from dzp 4x a day, to Clonazepam 2-3x a day, because it's more potent and longer lasting

 

[D-isomerSpeedy]

I can speak from experience that lorazepam is the choice for post-ictal treatment. But that's probably because of its shorter duration.

It's just like the competitors of Aleve point out: "what if my headache comes back?" (It's a fair complaint, since the PI says you can have max 3 in 24hrs.)

It's harder to treat prn with diazepam if it's still in your system. You'd need a seperate med for breakthrough seizures.

I was told by multiple users (including my P doc that clonazepam was the safest of all the benzodiazepines. Let's be honest, at the end of the day they are all drugs.

I have never had an adverse reaction to clonazepam other than the time I mixed it with Percocet-I know completely ignorant on my part. What is everyone's though on asking him to up the dosages. Small does of alprazolam or sokething similar for '
"breakthrough" anxiety?

 

[D-isomerSpeedy]

I can speak from experience that lorazepam is the choice for post-ictal treatment. But that's probably because of its shorter duration.

It's just like the competitors of Aleve point out: "what if my headache comes back?" (It's a fair complaint, since the PI says you can have max 3 in 24hrs.)

It's harder to treat prn with diazepam if it's still in your system. You'd need a seperate med for breakthrough seizures.

So that's how a long-lasting benzo has a much shorter "duration of action."

EDIT: and OP, let's see:

stim + benzo = anxious.

no stim + bemzp = sleepy/groggy

I suggest maybe:

no stim + no benzo = just right?

Your right. I'll do exactly that. Should I tell a person that has terminal cancer no meds-no pain? I take my Focalin because with out it I can't concentrate on anything, get sidetrack, lose interest in everything that needs some intellectual, coherent interactive me. It's a consequence of the medicine. Sorry I didn't think of that first.

 

[Scrofula]

OK, after a tape review, I will admit, that there may be a second MOA for the benzo class. Their dosage is so low I could only imagine they'd be relevant at BDZ sites, but diazepam at least has a secondary action at sodium channels.

And if you're a rat's spinal cord being electrocuted by someone, you will find different effects . . .

sorry this could take a while.

EDIT: wait, could diazepam's lower potency effect that? But it's lorazepam preferred . . . .


OP: sorry there's a somewhat OT benzo slap fight interrupting your thread.

I hate to sound rude but poor concentration is a long way from terminal cancer pain. Poor concentration is also a side effect of benzos.

You're taking too much coffee to wake up and knocking yourself out with hooch. You need to drop the benzos completely and titrate down your stim dosage if you need focus. Adjust your dosage times if you can't sleep.

 

[Lorne???]

https://www.drugs.com/pro/valium.html

here, 3-4 times per for WD, up to 4 times a day for anxiety; a long lasting drug, for sure

as per oxycodone, this study compares PO to IM; and again demonstrates IV would in comparison have double the BA%, or at least very close


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1381353/

 

[Scrofula]

I would hope IV has higher bioavailability. It goes straight into your bio. Totally available.

BA affects dosage. Just dosage. You can always increase a dose to make up for loss with whatever ROA.

And you can always take a long-lasting drug multiple times. Sometimes you'll do that with psychoactive drugs to prevent getting woozy, or to adjust to side effects, like with SSRIs or even non-psychoactives like metformin.

And for very lipophilic drugs like methadone, it slowly accumulates, you necessarily take multiple doses before steady state.

This has nothing to do with anticonvulsant v. anxiolytic MOA differences.

 

[Lorne???]

^ Except no one would take Clonazepam 4x a day; studies Indicate BID to ideal, and even once daily in some patients, although some doctors are unaware of tolerance, or just overly worried about side effects so they go TID with Clonazepam

The point w/ oxy is that he claimed that it having ~50 BA% was simply my "opinion" like it really befits me to make up the fact that IV oxycodone is double the potency; and that study compared PO-IM, IN is ~85 available, so let's say 80-90%, that implies again, that oxy BA% is, at best 50% if not lower.

Yeah bzds have multiple, though more minor MOA's(excluding the subunit selectivity that makes Z drugs effective sedative/hypnotics despite low potency, and makes some benzodiazepines more effective anti-convulsants-like Lorazepam and Clonazepam, although they are both potent and fairly long acting(Lorazepam more like intermediate acting) and others better anxiolytics overall, though the rapid onset, and again high potency of medications like alprazolam contribute to this

DXM can have long lasting effects, yet doubt it has a corresponding t1/2, and Gabapentin,(which is admittedly an odd drug that is more effective generally when resided, or at least splitting your dose) which can take 3-4 hours to peak, can certainly outlast it's elimination-At sufficient doses morphine provides longer analgesia than oxycodone, yet it is metabolized a bit faster.

Point is, need users, especially respectable ones to understand this if an To provide updated information in any form

And Scrofula, try Kratom, need you as senior administrator off all of BL- it would make things easier, and your humor alone would be an improvement %)

 

[birdwell]

It seems like you are looking for a prescription, but I figured I would chime in and say that there is an RC benzo called flubromazolam that is very potent and very long lasting.

 

[Lorne???]

^ Yeah though w/ low tolerance, would not recommend RC Benzodiazepines; the margin of error and chance of silliness is just to high.

There are a couple of long lasting bzd?s, including flu-something, think it is a partial agonist, though would be. More along the lines of what OP wanted

Sorry guys, again if stating opionion, would say so...

He should have verified the info before saying that. I prob overreacted, although respect that poster, and was surprised at his disrespect

 

[Jabberwocky]

I am sorry, however valium IS NOT A LONG ACTING DRUG, and yiu cannot
change that;

IT is rapisky abaorded, into circulation and then the CNS; however it then quickly exits the cns, and is then redistrinuted into varius bisy tissues, rendering UT useless as iT is gradually metabolized; and it is Highly protien bound making plasma levels, undeliavle at best, so that whatever is keft in plasma , is only a fraction and had no practical effect.
At clinical doses, it?s metabolites are useless; oxazepam is, what, half as potent as dzp, iT gas a slow onset, and is converted so gradually, throw it out (and only a small amount of a 10mg dode is converted; even if 10% of the Daisy dose was converted, that is ~7.5mg of oxazepam per day, so?)

Same for Temazepam, valium(dzp,) is typically1.5-2x as potent( though Temaepam is more relaxing typically and a better sedtive/hynotic, though again 15-20mg Temazepan= ~10mg dzp(Some sources say 5mg valium= a whooping 15mg, though mostly an overestimation)

And the big one, nordazepam; nordazepam and tranxene are effectively the same medication, abd it doesn't really last as long as clonazepam; duration 4-12 hours for Cloraepate(Tranx), and clona holds longer

W/out multiple large doses per day, dzp is a fast acting medication, that quickly wears off

There are a couple of other ?long acting? benzodiazepines that actually had a long duration, corresponding to -roughly~ t1-2

And Nordazepam is a partial agonist and valium itself is typically consedered to be 1.5-2x as potent (making nordazepam similiar to temazepam, as per converters

#

Do you work in a medical profession because I swear to god all you're posts have crazy amounts of detailed information. (this isn't a a joke I'm actually curious)

 

[andyturbo]

Not naming names but some people in this thread need too chill the hell out.

OP, Diaz,Loraz or Clonaz i would be recommending if you can get any of those prescribed.

 

[Scrofula]

And technically this is a "what should I take" thread AND with hints of sourcing. I should have closed it a while back.

But for now might as well leave it for the benzo folks to slap fight over the biochemical nuances of half-life vs. duration of action; volume of distribution, the totally-new-to-me benzo action at sodium channels beyond just BZD receptor agonism being responsible for anti-convulsive properties, and dosing schedules for medium-duration benzos.

Maybe I'll merge some posts later.

 

[RedRum OG]

I would strongly, strongly suggest tapering off of benzos altogether and trying something similar, like gabapentin or pregabalin, maybe beta blockers. Please trust me when I say that is the better path for life long anxiety results (without mentioning non-medication based treatment)

Long term benzos will ruin you. I mean seriously, ruin you. Look up the horror stories of long term use. Even at the same dose eventually you will have anxiety worse than you ever knew before. Then you will be left with the choice of upping your dose and getting a few months, a year, feeling ok, but it will just happen again.

I've been addicted to heroin. I've been addicted to benzos. The benzos took me down further, they took much longer to recover from, and the withdrawals were worse.

 

[Backfromthebrink]

And technically this is a "what should I take" thread AND with hints of sourcing. I should have closed it a while back.

But for now might as well leave it for the benzo folks to slap fight over the biochemical nuances of half-life vs. duration of action; volume of distribution, the totally-new-to-me benzo action at sodium channels beyond just BZD receptor agonism being responsible for anti-convulsive properties, and dosing schedules for medium-duration benzos.

Maybe I'll merge some posts later.

I think Lorne need a to chill with a long acting benzo..

I suggest diazepam

Sorry Lorne....

(you know I'm just joking.... )

 

[Lorne???]

Said to hell with it... Phenobarbital Tranxene and Valium... and a fifth of of scotch

Nah don?t drink

Seriously Though it is like methadone... chronic dosing is more effective w/ dzp, and anxiolytic effects can still wear off well before you?re out of your head in severe wd

 

[steewith2ees]

It seems like you are looking for a prescription, but I figured I would chime in and say that there is an RC benzo called flubromazolam that is very potent and very long lasting.

Can I just correct this? Flubromazolam is a highly unpredictable ultra potent medium duration triazolo bzd which was developed from Flubromazepam, a benzodiazepine developed back in the early 60's around the same time as many of the other first generation drugs of this type.

It has perhaps the longest DOA I have ever experienced, lasting up to 30 hours on occasion before tailing off very gradually over the next day or 2. Although it was studied, it was never marketed due to its impracticality as a medicine. Possessing both strong sedative and anxiolytic effects it was too long acting to be used as a practical sleeping tablet, but due to its overwhelming sedation it was seen as also impractical as a long acting anxiolytic.

Although this post is generally pointless, as I will finish with the basic premise that RC benzodiazepines should never be considered for the treatment of genuine symptomatic indicators, I had to come out to bat for a drug that I personally find effective as a professional junky. Flubromazepam is still an effective, Roche original where as Flubromazolam is the only benzodiazepine I will never take again, and is one of the first ever benzodiazepines I have seen specifically identified in my local DSP's HR literature as considered potentially lethal even when not combined with other CNS <<<.

Flubromazepam is indeed one of the longest acting benzodiazepines ever created but at present it is not available in any manner than could be considered safe. It was still made though with the original intention of potentially giving it to humans as a medicine.

Flubromazolam is a drug that I do not believe even has the potential to be marketed as remotely safe. I spit on f - lam. Rant over

 

[Lorne???]

^ Agreed generally, however clonazolam(clonitrozolam) is the only medication that effectively treats multiple conditions, that one guy in a Tanuki Suit has; Clonazepam come close, however the doses needed are a lot, and it has a slow onset

Clonazolam, in low doses, should have been marketed, or at least taken further into the process, imo( a trinitrobenzodiazepine? Come on)