long time stimulant use

[eweksi]

Just some thoughts.

I've been using stimulants, all different kinds, on and off, since I was 16. Now I am 29. I would not recommend it. I have many friends who also have been doing stimulants for years without embodying the stereotypical massmedia produced junkie image; we are all relatively succesful creative people with jobs, hobbies, talents, even normal families - BUT, BUT - some of them suffer severe episodes of depression; everyone's lovelife is acctualy pretty ridiculus; when I flip through old pictures and compare them to the ones taken this year I see how emaciated everybody is, sunken cheeks and so on.... Some people have serious problems eating normal, they have no need to eat, they forget to eat, they smoke cigs and drink coffee instead of eating even when they are not high.

So my answer is: prolonged stimulant use is both: foolish and somewhat reasonable

The main problem in my opinon, the one that leads to addiction is the rush; whoever falls in love with it, has more of a chance to become an addict, than those who can appreciate the whole curve, not just the up.

My experience is that after a stimulant binge, I need my time to comeback, rest, relax.....otherwise the body and also the mind get too stressed out; and you are going to crash, maybe not immediatly, it can take months of on and off stimulant use, but it is going to happen, imo. And this crash can manifest in many different forms - you get sick - colds (that just don't cure so well as in a 'normal' person, have a tendency to repeat and strechout for weeks), herpes!! - emotional drain and general spiritual depletion...

sry, my english is not so good

 

[arohydro]

He does know what he's talking about.

Hitting your head may be neurotoxic, but the question here isn't if I'm prescribed to hit my head three times a day for years, etc.

Those PET scans paint a picture that can't really be argued with..

They don't provide much information. They show damage that CAN be caused by methamphetamine/methcathinone use. No dosage information, no use pattern, etc. I'm not disputing the study (which I don't believe was even quoted) or that meth/amphetamine are neurotoxic, merely that it would tell us much in the way of what would happen with therapeutic amphetamine administration.

That being said, may I ask as this concerns me directly, how can you use amphetamines safely? I'm well aware no one is REALLY POSITIVE, but under what conditions do we have evidence to believe is amphetamine NOT neurotoxic? How BEST can you prevent the neurotoxicity of amphetamine? Is it possible at recreational dosages, or only therapeutic?

I'm aware that antioxidants, hydration, and proper temperature control are crucial to mitigating damage, but TO WHAT EXTENT can they do so? If amphetamine can be used sparingly with no acute toxicity I would be very pleased to know how.

norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors actually seem to have neuroprotective properties rather than neurotoxic effects (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16736241).

Not to imply that you aren't aware, but I feel this text is a bit misleading in that a substance can be both neurotoxic in one manner and neuroprotective in another.

 

[eweksi]

I'm aware that antioxidants, hydration, and proper temperature control are crucial to mitigating damage, but TO WHAT EXTENT can they do so?

To some extent, not so hungover - I take mg, ca, d3, b-complex, soya lecitin, vitamins e & c ...but still this is damage control, there are still sideeffects that come after you, if not on the body and mind (which i doubt), then it's socialy - this is a fact I gathered from experience. I think it's an illusion to think you can get away with theraputic, recreational or hardcore use without any damage.

There really is no such thing as safe drug use - there is only damage control or harm reduction, imo. It is like asking is there a safe way to eat crispy bacon everyday...... Have some bacon and then drink some green tea. Smoke cigs and take 3g of vitamin c a day....

Well this is just my experience, not scientific fact, from being in the stimulant game for almost 15 years.

Also, I know some old people, like 40-50, that have been doing stimulants (and basicly everything else) for years - on the surface they will try to paint the picture of how everything is fine, but if you get to know them better, more often than not, one finds everything - especialy in the social/ intimate relationship department - is far from ok.

 

[arohydro]

There really is no such thing as safe drug use - there is only damage control or harm reduction, imo. It is like asking is there a safe way to eat crispy bacon everyday...... Have some bacon and then drink some green tea. Smoke cigs and take 3g of vitamin c a day....

Well this is just my experience, not scientific fact, from being in the stimulant game for almost 15 years.

Thank you for the input! To be honest, I don't entirely agree that there is no such thing as safe drug use - there are pitfalls, undoubtedly, but when used responsibly drugs don't represent a disproportionately large risk over any other activity you might undertake in life.

Given the juxtaposition of short-term (one or two year long) human studies revealing no neurotoxicity at therapeutic dosage levels against that of brain scans elucidating dopaminergic damage (above), and rat studies showing signs of toxicity only past a certain threshold, I believe it's entirely within the realm of possibility that you can use stimulants like amphetamine without any permanent neurological damage or impairment (which is not exactly the same thing, neurotoxicity can present without any behavioral ramifications to go with it.)

There are certainly side effects to every drug, but these are not always comparable to irreparable detriments some drugs cause (meth abusers will probably never regenerate the dopamine neurons in their caudate nucleus and substantia nigra.)

The line does blur at more and more frequent patterns of use. Addiction is also a risk, perhaps one where the damage (at least partially psychological) can not be quantitatively measured.

That being said, I do not refuse your point of view or advice and can, at the very least, redouble my caution by heeding an experienced user's warning. : ) Still would like to see what others have to say about damage prevention/if it's even a concern with occasional use, though.

 

[tifotra]

Ive been using cocaine and mdma on and off for years and I havnt had any addiction issues...

you are a lucky sob.

I've come to believe that there is a genetic component to addiction. Some people just don't get hooked and can chip away until the cows come home. Still others apparently can use regularly and never have it affect them in a serious way which is more to the OP's point I suppose. Kind of like a "functioning" alcoholic I suppose there could be "functional" (insert drug) users too.

 

[oldkaw]

You can have down regulation without actual permanent damage to receptors. PET scans remind me a bit too much of bell curves and statistics, I'll just leave it at that. A number of anti psychotic drugs cause dopamine and norepinephrine down regulation as the intended effect, not as a side effect. To high and/or to long use will cause as side effects the symptoms described as parkinson like. Is it always reversible? Of course not. Can it be reversible? Absolutely. Brain is more plastic than most give it credit for.