long time stimulant use

[SWIMMY]

Hello to you all,

I've read an interesting story about Paul Erdös, he was a mathematician and a very productive one !

And also, quite an extraordinary one ! One thing he did and which quite astonishes me, is taking amphetamine, from 1971 to, i suppose, till around his death in 1996, a very long time. And i suppose, without abuse, at least, it was not mentioned in his biography. And this quote from wikipedia seems to confirm this at least partly.

After 1971 he also took amphetamines,despite the concern of his friends, one of whom (Ron Graham) bet him $500 that he could not stop taking the drug for a month.[11] Erdős won the bet, but complained that during his abstinence mathematics had been set back by a month: "Before, when I looked at a piece of blank paper my mind was filled with ideas. Now all I see is a blank piece of paper." After he won the bet, he promptly resumed his amphetamine use.

Now, if you read this, it all seems very inviting, doesn't it ?

But i have avoided all stimulant drugs, that is to say, drugs which also target dopamine receptors to a significant extent, but i was hoping if some of you could share in your experiences in long time use of a stimulant.

Can it be mainly reasonable or does it stay mainly foolish ?

 

[Bearlove]

Can it be mainly reasonable or does it stay mainly foolish ?

Im sorry but I dont understand this question - could you perhaps explain what your looking for.

I was a long term regular amphetamine user - used it for years.

 

[SWIMMY]

well, stimulant drugs have an abuse potential

can the abuse be avoided by regular use or is it almost a certainty that the user will abuse it eventually ?

i mean, even if it would be used daily, as i think erdös did, and tolerance develops, how hard is it to stay by a moderate and regular dosage ?

 

[MrFaust]

Ive been using cocaine and mdma on and off for years and I havnt had any addiction issues...

 

[SWIMMY]

i see, yes well, i have little doubt of how addicting cocaine can be !
that's a sharp edge to try out

I'm less sure about amphetamine or others drugs within the same category, certainly if the dosage is small, like a therapeutic dosage

any ideas ?

 

[AylaV]

well, stimulant drugs have an abuse potential

can the abuse be avoided by regular use or is it almost a certainty that the user will abuse it eventually ?

i mean, even if it would be used daily, as i think erdös did, and tolerance develops, how hard is it to stay by a moderate and regular dosage ?

Amphetamines are known to help productivity in certain individuals -- we wouldn't have prescription drugs to help with this lack of focus based on them if they didn't (ADD meds). Humans, by design, are to find dopamine addictive. Dopamine is our reward and it feels good to us. It drives our desire (at least in part) for sex and consumption of energy (food). Some become more enamoured with it than others. For me, it was MDMA that sucked me in. Amphetamine and methamphetamine were both lackluster in comparison as it lacked the emotional component that MDMA has.

I feel this might be a better question for ODD where people have more experience with straight amphetamine use. MDxx may be amphetamine class drugs, but are commonly accepted to be a separate group known as entactogens / empathogens. I'll keep it here for now, but just be aware that I might wind up moving this topic =)

 

[SWIMMY]

thanks for the answer !

move it if you want to

yes, for me personally, i could imagine how psycologically addictive MDMA could be, because of its effects on social life !

well, i'm could use a little stimulus, not too much, altough that rarely happens, i hate it when i'm very stimulated ! And i certainly could use drug induced insights as well !

Gonna have a look at those amphetamine ADD drugs

 

[AylaV]

I'll move it just for the diversity in responses i might get from another forum more specialised to the question. Glad my response helped =)

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

I'm not sure of the question either..but I know lots and lots of people who use stimulants for long, long periods of time...and they're prescribed these stimulants.

I can't imagine being prescribed MDMA to take daily, however

 

[oldkaw]

I'm not sure of the question either..but I know lots and lots of people who use stimulants for long, long periods of time...and they're prescribed these stimulants.

I can't imagine being prescribed MDMA to take daily, however

What if it was scripted 10mg x 3 times a day? Could use imagine it then? Could you keep from amping up the dose, till you were in the ~100-150mg range? Just wondering.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

I suppose I could imagine it then, as the lower doses would be less (possibly) neurotoxic.

And yes, I am aware that some scripted doses of C-II amphetamines (Dexedrine, Adderall, and certainly Desoxyn) can be neurotoxic.

 

[VandiLLisM]

in a solid 3 years of pretty regular MDMA cocaine and Meth use iv never noticed any adverse affects. (use was multiple times a week throughout all 3 years with maybe small breaks). also smoke cigs and weed everyday. Bodies are strong lol
Edit: Also, hitting your head is neurotoxic. I dont think these drugs damage you nearly as much as people would like to think. All of my brain fucntions are in tact and as a matter-of-fact a couple of the smartest people i know use stimulants heavier than I do. Ranging from enrolled college students to some older kats in their 30s-40s. It seems if you try, you can be knowledgeable and doing a drug does not make you stupid. I strive to spread this message. Stereotypes really do ruin everything

 

[dokomo]

in a solid 3 years of pretty regular MDMA cocaine and Meth use iv never noticed any adverse affects. (use was multiple times a week throughout all 3 years with maybe small breaks). also smoke cigs and weed everyday. Bodies are strong lol
Edit: Also, hitting your head is neurotoxic. I dont think these drugs damage you nearly as much as people would like to think. All of my brain fucntions are in tact and as a matter-of-fact a couple of the smartest people i know use stimulants heavier than I do. Ranging from enrolled college students to some older kats in their 30s-40s. It seems if you try, you can be knowledgeable and doing a drug does not make you stupid. I strive to spread this message. Stereotypes really do ruin everything

Saying "I havent noticed any adverse effects" doesn't really mean anything in tangible terms. This becomes especially clear when you think about the fact that your perceptions and judgements are formed by the brain--you're essentially using your brain to determine if your brain is or isn't functioning properly (hardly the best tool to use.)

You're also assuming that neurotoxicity would manifest in a person's intelligence, which isn't necessarily the case (although mental fog can accompany and follow abuse of amphetamines.) To quote myself from a previous thread:

This is a problem for people, because long-term and high-level use kills off these dopaminergic neurons throughout the body, including those in the subtantia nigra which are necessary for motor function and movement. Individuals with parkinsons disease have experienced accelerated death of these neurons, which causes their symptoms. An individual needs to lose around 70-80% of these cells in the substantia nigra to start exhibiting Parkinsonian symptoms. We lose these cells at a rate of 0.5%-1% a year as a normal process of aging, but using amphetamines speeds this process up by killing off these neurons more quickly. These neurons do not re-grow or recover.

The substantia nigra is just one area of the body where dopaminergic neurons are found, and there are many more. I just wanted to bring this up, because people seem to think that what doesnt kill them doesn't do any harm, and in this case it can do alot of harm.

Here is a PET scan showing the extent of damage that use can cause. Note that when these scans were taken, the methamphetamine user had been completely off of the drug for 3 years, as had the methcathinone user. To the far right is an individual newly diagnosed with parkinsons disease.

Stereotypes really do ruin everything

What ruins everything is not educating one's self before engaging in behavior with inherent risks. I'm not saying don't ever use amphetamines, just saying know the risks and don't assume that you're not causing damage just because you're not dead and don't have self-obvious cognitive impairment.

 

[VandiLLisM]

My point was use doesnt make you some crazy retard tweaker. Obviously it causes underlying problems I knew this. Mr big mad moderator man

 

[lurching]

Bodies are strong lol

Edit: Also, hitting your head is neurotoxic. I dont think these drugs damage you nearly as much as people would like to think.

All of my brain fucntions are in tact

hm, reading your post makes me doubt that.

i reckon you better listen to what dokomo has to say & listen well.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

He does know what he's talking about.

Hitting your head may be neurotoxic, but the question here isn't if I'm prescribed to hit my head three times a day for years, etc.

Those PET scans paint a picture that can't really be argued with..

 

[ektamine]

I'm not sure of the question either..but I know lots and lots of people who use stimulants for long, long periods of time...and they're prescribed these stimulants.

I can't imagine being prescribed MDMA to take daily, however

What if it was scripted 10mg x 3 times a day? Could use imagine it then? Could you keep from amping up the dose, till you were in the ~100-150mg range? Just wondering.

The thing about MDMA is all the hubbub about it being a relatively 'safe' stimulant most probably only applies when you use it in the confines of 'responsible use'. It drains so much of you, and so fast, that to take it even 2 days in a row you will notice how much weaker and unhealthier it will feel on the second day. You have to give yourself proper recovery periods to let those neurotransmitters levels regenerate.

I think any daily dose of MDMA would probably be a foolish move, bad news for your brain, and worse than abstaining in the long-run.

Daily amphetamine can't be all that great either, but the mechanism of action seems much different. More accommodating of this style of (therapeutic) dosing.

 

[literate]

What if it was scripted 10mg x 3 times a day?

Then the script would be a cruel tease unless you had the wherewithall to save them up and drop at once.

Also, you can't roll everyday due to tolerance, but amphetamine can be used more or less forever with 1 to 3 day breaks now and again. Using methamphetamine constantly would be a bit masochistic, though.

 

[k-opioid]

Methylphenidate, bupropion, and modafinil are probably the least neurotoxic drugs to take long-term.

Similar in action to SSRIs, norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors actually seem to have neuroprotective properties rather than neurotoxic effects (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16736241). The the same cannot be said for norepinephrine-dopamine releasing agents like amphetamine.
Even still, people have been prescribed amphetamine for 25+ years without (seemingly) any adverse effects.

I doubt therapeutic doses of stimulants, even in the amphetamine class, really have that significant long-term neurotoxic effects. I would feel that many would have noticed by now, since methylphenidate became widely perscribed to children in the 60's, and amphetamine in the 90's.

 

[Trickyrick]

I have used meth an supplemented my meth use with 40mg of desoxyn. I cam pass a drug test like nobodies business but any way, allot of how people react or respond to meth is based on how their brain chemistry is set up. I was an absolute basket case until I started using. Instantly I felt my brain quiet down. It went from circus to cemetery is a matter of minutes. So I got curious. I did some googling and started to notice patterns in my behavior. After about six months I went to my doc and told him to give me a rx for desoxyn. He wouldn't so I went to another doc and after I educated him about desoxyn, he agreed but under strict suppervision. A year and a half later I am absolutely amazed at my life and how it has changed. Meth is highly addictive in most brain chemistries. I am more the exception than the rule. Love you guys. Be safe.