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H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist
Liver health - *Mega-merged*
- Thread starter Running123
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stratofortress
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 16, 2012
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- 119
Liver
OK, it's 2.30 in the morning and i can't sleep for fear of having damaged my liver. Over the past 3-4 months I've been using diazepam (~25mg) daily, and ethylphenidate and methiopropamine on most days for slightly under a month (got through 2g of both). I've also been using diphenhydramine as a sleep aid most nights for a couple of weeks, my standard dose being 100/150mg, only once having gone above 300mg (suffered from insomnia before using the RC stims).
Now I know this isn't healthy. I know I'm putting a lot of strain on my cardiovascular system, and my lungs. But what's got me worried is the thought that I may have damaged my liver. I've a slight pain to the right of my navel.
I fully intend to get a blood test ASAP. My last blood test, about a week ago, showed no cause for concern.
Do many of you out there worry about the state of your liver? Obviously every body is different, but I would be very grateful to hear from people who have binged in a similar manner, and what, if anything, was the effect on your liver?
OK, it's 2.30 in the morning and i can't sleep for fear of having damaged my liver. Over the past 3-4 months I've been using diazepam (~25mg) daily, and ethylphenidate and methiopropamine on most days for slightly under a month (got through 2g of both). I've also been using diphenhydramine as a sleep aid most nights for a couple of weeks, my standard dose being 100/150mg, only once having gone above 300mg (suffered from insomnia before using the RC stims).
Now I know this isn't healthy. I know I'm putting a lot of strain on my cardiovascular system, and my lungs. But what's got me worried is the thought that I may have damaged my liver. I've a slight pain to the right of my navel.
I fully intend to get a blood test ASAP. My last blood test, about a week ago, showed no cause for concern.
Do many of you out there worry about the state of your liver? Obviously every body is different, but I would be very grateful to hear from people who have binged in a similar manner, and what, if anything, was the effect on your liver?
Snake_Eyes
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,522
I'm concerned about the daily amount of tylenol and advil that I take but I have to work so what's a guy to do? I took 50mg of diphenhydramine daily for 10 years before going on mirtazapine and my bloodwork came back fine. I also have stomach issues like yours and after about $2k in tests which came back normal my doctor ruled me as having IBS and wrote me a prescription for dicyclomine which worked.
I don't have experience with the others, sorry.
I don't have experience with the others, sorry.
Were liver/pancreatic enzymes tested? If yes, and they was no cause for concern, you should not be concerned.
Still, if you are worried about your liver, ask for ultrasound imaging. Your liver might turn out to be slightly steatotic (fatty). Tell the doctor about your drug use, he should be able to tell you if you should worry or not.
Chauncey_GARDENer
Bluelighter
Sounds like paranoia, do you have any abd. pain? 10 years of using a plethora of psychoactive stuff has left me with only minor abdominal pain probably due to bladder/kidney damage caused by 3+ YEARS of heavy ketamine use... And I only notice this if I am real dehydrated... I don't think a month using a few different drugs would be any worse than an extended liquor binge. If you still can't sleep, milk thistle from an organic foods store is supposed to be great. Maybe it was in my head but after ingesting large doses of APAP, milk thistle capsules seemed to help with my writhing liver symptoms.
doppelganga196
Bluelighter
Just ask your doc for a liver function blood test man it'll put your mind at ease. The amount of shit ive done to my liver the past 15 years & about 6 months ago i had a test done & it was A - OK ; )
InstantNoodles
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2011
- Messages
- 133
I have totally abused my liver for over 18 years. Durin that time I was a heavy drinker and ate painkillers like skittles. 2 months ago I had a blood test done which came back abnormal. I went and had a ultra sound done and the results came back perfect.
Stopped the drink and painkillers and my results came back normal.
I can remember when I was at my worst, my stools were a clay colour and my urine was brown. The only thing I think saved my liver was milk thistle.
Sorry if the post seems a bit brief but I'm on my phone.
Here's my thread.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/612996-Help-with-my-(drinking-problem)-liver
Stopped the drink and painkillers and my results came back normal.
I can remember when I was at my worst, my stools were a clay colour and my urine was brown. The only thing I think saved my liver was milk thistle.
Sorry if the post seems a bit brief but I'm on my phone.
Here's my thread.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/612996-Help-with-my-(drinking-problem)-liver
I found this thread of interest. As I'm on prescription medication and I binge drink once a week or so. I'm prescribed 200mg of Tegretol a day to lower my seizure threshold (100mg in the morning and 100mg at night). It's been working fantastically, and it's a low enough dose that I rarely feel drowsy from it.
I've been binge drinking about 3 times a month. Fairly normal behaviour for someone my age (24). However I sometimes worry that my liver might be under extra stress from the medication.
I was just wondering how sustainable this kind of consumption is (in the opinion of people here)?
I've been binge drinking about 3 times a month. Fairly normal behaviour for someone my age (24). However I sometimes worry that my liver might be under extra stress from the medication.
I was just wondering how sustainable this kind of consumption is (in the opinion of people here)?
Misfit Chick
Bluelighter
Has anyone done a liver flush?
ProfessorBananas
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2012
- Messages
- 70
If you're concerned you've done damage to your liver I would agree with taking milk thistle. I've read that drinking coffee is also pretty good for your liver.
TouchN' Stuff Blvd
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2009
- Messages
- 434
Enlarged liver
My doctor found that my liver was enlarged and a bit sore when feeling around with his hand, and this was confirmed with an ultrasound. Based on my heavy drinking and occasional binge drinking over the last few years, my doctor told me to quit drinking for two months and then redo the ultrasound to see if drinking was the cause. I had a blood test too from a different doctor, and everything supposedly came up negative, but it seems weird that my liver is definatly enlarged but the blood test showed nothing. I am wondering if I should have it redone. I
My main question is, what other than not drink can I do to improve my liver health? I have stopped drinking, and am trying to cut back on the number of spliffs (joints with a little bit of tobacco) to one to none a day, and just am smoking bowls mostly instead. As much as I have time for, I am also trying to avoid processed foods. What else can I do? I bought some milk thistle 175 mg standardized extract pills and am taking about 3 of them a day with meals. I don't understand how they work that well, so I wonder if anyone who has used milk thistle to treat liver damage has any advice on the best way to use them. Thanks for any advice
My doctor found that my liver was enlarged and a bit sore when feeling around with his hand, and this was confirmed with an ultrasound. Based on my heavy drinking and occasional binge drinking over the last few years, my doctor told me to quit drinking for two months and then redo the ultrasound to see if drinking was the cause. I had a blood test too from a different doctor, and everything supposedly came up negative, but it seems weird that my liver is definatly enlarged but the blood test showed nothing. I am wondering if I should have it redone. I
My main question is, what other than not drink can I do to improve my liver health? I have stopped drinking, and am trying to cut back on the number of spliffs (joints with a little bit of tobacco) to one to none a day, and just am smoking bowls mostly instead. As much as I have time for, I am also trying to avoid processed foods. What else can I do? I bought some milk thistle 175 mg standardized extract pills and am taking about 3 of them a day with meals. I don't understand how they work that well, so I wonder if anyone who has used milk thistle to treat liver damage has any advice on the best way to use them. Thanks for any advice
TurelGrigori
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2010
- Messages
- 64
Choline is the primary lipotropic (something that gets fat buildup in the liver emulsified and able to leave your liver). There are some animal studies that Vitamin E can prevent an enlarged liver from devoloping scarring or fibroids which is the big concern about having a fatty liver or enlarged liver.
Among heavy alcohol drinkers, those who also drink 4 cups of coffee a day are 75% less likely to get cirrhosis according to at least one large lifestyle study.Avoiding processed food as you mentioned your doing is a good step. Fructose can only be metabolized in the liver, where it becomes fat. Its to be avoided when one has an enlarged liver. Sucrose is a glucose molecule attached to a fructose molecule so I'd pass on most all candy, table sugar, dougnuts and the like.
Raising glutathione is good for a stressed liver. Glutathione as a supplement is actually less effective at raising liver glutathione than taking other supplements. N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) is a good way to raise glutathione.
Among heavy alcohol drinkers, those who also drink 4 cups of coffee a day are 75% less likely to get cirrhosis according to at least one large lifestyle study.Avoiding processed food as you mentioned your doing is a good step. Fructose can only be metabolized in the liver, where it becomes fat. Its to be avoided when one has an enlarged liver. Sucrose is a glucose molecule attached to a fructose molecule so I'd pass on most all candy, table sugar, dougnuts and the like.
Raising glutathione is good for a stressed liver. Glutathione as a supplement is actually less effective at raising liver glutathione than taking other supplements. N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) is a good way to raise glutathione.
Futedute
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- Joined
- Oct 1, 2012
- Messages
- 17
NAC has some great health benefits.I think the consensus is if you take NAC, you'd do well to supplement with a good antioxidant. Vitamin C in L-Ascorbic acid form, pure powder if you can take the acidity and general yack taste.
I stir a spoon (about 3 grams) into some OJ. As NAC acts as a Oxidant after being metabolised and raises your Free-Radical Levels. Don't quote me on that however, i'm no expert....just something that had always stuck in my mind. If you're only taking 600 or 1200mg of NAC, then Its not a mega issue.
I think they recommend 3 to 1 ratio of Vit-c to NAC.
I find titrating slowly up with the Vit-C just until it starts to cause loose bowels is enough saturation. Vit-C is the only thing I'm not worried about mega dosing.
I get NAC in 600mg capsules, or you can get bulk powder, but your place might smell like a sulphur pit
it really does pong, even when capsuled, take a spoon of Vit-C powder with it. Works for me. Also regular supplementation with NAC will increase the urinary excretion of copper, a mineral. So if you're using NAC for an extended period of time, it's probably wise to add both copper (2 mg a day) and zinc (30 mg a day) to your treatment regimen.I was really taken aback when I heard how many antioxidants are in Coffee? Even instant.
Trouble is, when I fall off the wagon, I don't drink it
Try and source some standardized bulk powder. Standardized for 80% silymarin. It tastes like Sh1T . But works out allot better bang for buck. And no fillers!
Or you could cap it yourself! I know in the UK you can get 100g powder for about £10. (about 16$) That's alot of capsules.
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Somberlain
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 89
is taking drugs via any roa that does not use the first pass effect (e.g. snorting, rectal) in any way better if you try to minimize the stress for your liver?
i got diagnosed with fatty liver and the blood test also didn't look too good, so the doc thinks it's steatohepatitis. i'm not an alcoholic but i drank huge amounts for about 2 months and not so much, but considerable amounts for a year before that (but always with some sober days) and also i gained much weight through an ad which was also a factor i think. i take a lot of meds (2 ads and valproic acid, which is not good for the liver itself), so this rather short perioid of drinking seems to have been enough to do that to my liver because it was already stressed with the meds.
so since the diagnosis i didn't drink (not one bit) and tried living healthier. but i still take some other stuff, which is why i wanted to know if i can do a bit of harm reduction if i don't take thinks oral or something like that.
i hope i made myself understandable, not very clear today.
i got diagnosed with fatty liver and the blood test also didn't look too good, so the doc thinks it's steatohepatitis. i'm not an alcoholic but i drank huge amounts for about 2 months and not so much, but considerable amounts for a year before that (but always with some sober days) and also i gained much weight through an ad which was also a factor i think. i take a lot of meds (2 ads and valproic acid, which is not good for the liver itself), so this rather short perioid of drinking seems to have been enough to do that to my liver because it was already stressed with the meds.
so since the diagnosis i didn't drink (not one bit) and tried living healthier. but i still take some other stuff, which is why i wanted to know if i can do a bit of harm reduction if i don't take thinks oral or something like that.
i hope i made myself understandable, not very clear today.
lenses
Bluelighter
I had to become an expert on liver health after contracting chronic liver disease .I have learned some harsh lessons the past few years. My use caught up with me... and lets just say I don't post in OD anymore LOL .
Being a long time pharmacology nerd, I had to figure out how to deal with it and be able to take chemicals!
I have to have a close grasp of liver health to function. After I figured out what really stresses out my liver, and what really helps it, i found I was still able to function much much better after being crippled by dysfunction for over a year, jaundice,daily fatgue, vomiting, high liver enzyme scores.
As far as "recreational" substances - I believe psychs and cannabis are pretty benign.Drugs that are active in smaller doses would obviously be somewhat safer, right? From what I gather the worst in general is stimulants with coke and mdpv being the worse end.I can get away with a lot of things that are enriching (turns out anything bad for the soul is bad for the liver as well!) and still not be fucking up my health. I have been bogged down with substances before at a psych hosptial and my liver failed within a few weeks! Simply put - billurubin was almost 10, AST and ALT were in the 800s! :/
The number one supplement for liver health in my opinion? Hmmm. I have one that is not paid much if any attention to : TMG (Trimethylglycine) . Its in beets ! Helps speed up the methylation reactions of liver toxin removal(i think methylation is the second pathway). It gives a noticible effect and it being some sort of glycine substrate ... feels a lot like a nootropic sometimes,speedy, smart. I used to not be able to tolerate ANY caffeine before. Now I can tolerate like 400 mgs a day at the most.
Other things?
If you drink alcohol, taurine is the coolest shit ever. 2000-3000mgs will stave off a hangover for just about anybody. It so effective manufactures were considering putting it in alcohol when bottling for just that reason.
Choline! Citocholine is so diverse in its effects , happens to be metabolised to phosphatadyl choline which makes up cell membranes (especially liver - esp. good for cirrosis,and good for cannabis smokers!) This one does a lot.
Silymarin(milk thistle) PHYTOSOME is the active liver protectant bonded to a phosphatadyl choline molecule so it has superior bioavailability (normal BA for silymarin is terrible and pretty much useless IMO).Silymarin phytosome has some great studies and is one of the best things to take if taking drugs that rape the liver.
Curcumin (curamed stuff) seems powerfully helpful and is amazing for body pain and inflammation.
SAMe is AMAZING. Its expensive, but if depressed and with liver problems, this will perk you up within a few days. TMG or B6 can be cheaper long term and may accomplish the same net effect,though.
Digestive enzymes ,especially ones with lots of pancreatin.
B vitamins (but not too much B6),vitamin c.
Also,not bogging down the digestive system with lots of food, protein, or fats is one of the most important things. A burdened liver and gluttony often leads to food in the bloodstream and brain !
Herbally : Schizandrin A has the effect of being so amazingly good for the liver and is a nice maoi below 100mgs and over 150 feels MDMA ish. Schizandra berries are great too.
Stephen Buhner has an amazing herbal mix for anything seriously wrong with the liver (hepatitis,fatty liver...). It is the best thing i've ever used.
I have tried probally 60 different supplements and this is what has been saving me.
Please ask me anything about liver health ... I want to help.
Somberlain : SUBLINGUAL! I take hormones and buprenorphine sublingually and it really seems to take a lot of stress off the liver. I tell people if they can, try to take their daily prescriptions sublingually, and perhaps not all at the same time so you are beating up your liver with big doses of drugs.
-lenses
Being a long time pharmacology nerd, I had to figure out how to deal with it and be able to take chemicals!
I have to have a close grasp of liver health to function. After I figured out what really stresses out my liver, and what really helps it, i found I was still able to function much much better after being crippled by dysfunction for over a year, jaundice,daily fatgue, vomiting, high liver enzyme scores.
As far as "recreational" substances - I believe psychs and cannabis are pretty benign.Drugs that are active in smaller doses would obviously be somewhat safer, right? From what I gather the worst in general is stimulants with coke and mdpv being the worse end.I can get away with a lot of things that are enriching (turns out anything bad for the soul is bad for the liver as well!) and still not be fucking up my health. I have been bogged down with substances before at a psych hosptial and my liver failed within a few weeks! Simply put - billurubin was almost 10, AST and ALT were in the 800s! :/
The number one supplement for liver health in my opinion? Hmmm. I have one that is not paid much if any attention to : TMG (Trimethylglycine) . Its in beets ! Helps speed up the methylation reactions of liver toxin removal(i think methylation is the second pathway). It gives a noticible effect and it being some sort of glycine substrate ... feels a lot like a nootropic sometimes,speedy, smart. I used to not be able to tolerate ANY caffeine before. Now I can tolerate like 400 mgs a day at the most.
Other things?
If you drink alcohol, taurine is the coolest shit ever. 2000-3000mgs will stave off a hangover for just about anybody. It so effective manufactures were considering putting it in alcohol when bottling for just that reason.
Choline! Citocholine is so diverse in its effects , happens to be metabolised to phosphatadyl choline which makes up cell membranes (especially liver - esp. good for cirrosis,and good for cannabis smokers!) This one does a lot.
Silymarin(milk thistle) PHYTOSOME is the active liver protectant bonded to a phosphatadyl choline molecule so it has superior bioavailability (normal BA for silymarin is terrible and pretty much useless IMO).Silymarin phytosome has some great studies and is one of the best things to take if taking drugs that rape the liver.
Curcumin (curamed stuff) seems powerfully helpful and is amazing for body pain and inflammation.
SAMe is AMAZING. Its expensive, but if depressed and with liver problems, this will perk you up within a few days. TMG or B6 can be cheaper long term and may accomplish the same net effect,though.
Digestive enzymes ,especially ones with lots of pancreatin.
B vitamins (but not too much B6),vitamin c.
Also,not bogging down the digestive system with lots of food, protein, or fats is one of the most important things. A burdened liver and gluttony often leads to food in the bloodstream and brain !
Herbally : Schizandrin A has the effect of being so amazingly good for the liver and is a nice maoi below 100mgs and over 150 feels MDMA ish. Schizandra berries are great too.
Stephen Buhner has an amazing herbal mix for anything seriously wrong with the liver (hepatitis,fatty liver...). It is the best thing i've ever used.
I have tried probally 60 different supplements and this is what has been saving me.
Please ask me anything about liver health ... I want to help.
Somberlain : SUBLINGUAL! I take hormones and buprenorphine sublingually and it really seems to take a lot of stress off the liver. I tell people if they can, try to take their daily prescriptions sublingually, and perhaps not all at the same time so you are beating up your liver with big doses of drugs.
-lenses
Somberlain
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 89
hmm... someone explained to me that it doesn't really make a difference because even if you take something sublingual, rectal or whatever roa that works its way around the liver at first, after it is in your blood streem it will go to the liver at some point. so basically you wouldn't really take much stress off of the liver because the organ has to deal with the same stuff, just a little later. i tend to believe him because he knows much about medicine etc.
the dosage thing makes sense.
will have everything checked again in 2 weeks or so and really hope its better now. if alcohol was the main problem, it should be. didn't drink one bit for 3-4 weeks now and was drinking heavily before the diagnosis. on the other hand stimulant use, smoking, not enough sleep etc surely aren't good for the liver either... 8(
lenses
Bluelighter
Well, okay, we have first pass heptatic (liver) metabolism ,which is how things get processed if taken orally (and processed hepatically). Taking things sublingually or IV will allow your body to (often) get a hold of it before it gets metabolized by the liver .
For me it FEELS better and seem more logical but yeah - your liver will have to deal with it at some point if processed by the liver. Like drinking alcohol - you can inhale the vapors and get drunk using a nebulizer. It will hit you immidiately. But it gets processed afterwards.
-lenses
For me it FEELS better and seem more logical but yeah - your liver will have to deal with it at some point if processed by the liver. Like drinking alcohol - you can inhale the vapors and get drunk using a nebulizer. It will hit you immidiately. But it gets processed afterwards.
-lenses
Somberlain
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- Oct 29, 2012
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So, i just got the results of my blood test. Everything completely normal again, only ALT is still a bit high, but i suppose 62 (i think 50 is "normal") is so close to normal again that i shouldn't worry too much about that.
Eating less, milk thistle and staying away from alcohol did the trick in only 4 weeks.
Eating less, milk thistle and staying away from alcohol did the trick in only 4 weeks.
budsnbars712
Bluelighter
Liver damage...(xanax and creatine)
I honestly do not know where this post belongs but I will post it in Healthy Living. If a moderator feels it is necessary to move, please feel free.
I am currently prescribed and been taking xanax, but I am looking to gain some weight. I am trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle and have been going to the gym after work. I am very light (130 pound male). I am looking to take a weight gainer (was looking into Cytogainer), to gain mass. The one worry I have is that I have heard of liver damage being caused by this supplement as it has Creatine in it.
My question is will mixing xanax and creatine together in my system mess up my liver even more? I read a review where someone had increased liver enzyme or something like that after getting a test done at the doctors. Liver damage is no joke in my eyes as my grandpa was a big drinker and died from liver cancer. I am already concerned about my liver just being on the xanax, and now I want to add this weight gainer.....BUT I want to be safe about it. If I asked my workout buddy, he'll just say it is fine, but he is also one of those people with all kinds of workout supplements all the time (and also does not take medication or drugs besides marijuana)...Please dont answer if you just THINK it is okay, unless you have experience. Thanks for the input!!
I honestly do not know where this post belongs but I will post it in Healthy Living. If a moderator feels it is necessary to move, please feel free.
I am currently prescribed and been taking xanax, but I am looking to gain some weight. I am trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle and have been going to the gym after work. I am very light (130 pound male). I am looking to take a weight gainer (was looking into Cytogainer), to gain mass. The one worry I have is that I have heard of liver damage being caused by this supplement as it has Creatine in it.
My question is will mixing xanax and creatine together in my system mess up my liver even more? I read a review where someone had increased liver enzyme or something like that after getting a test done at the doctors. Liver damage is no joke in my eyes as my grandpa was a big drinker and died from liver cancer. I am already concerned about my liver just being on the xanax, and now I want to add this weight gainer.....BUT I want to be safe about it. If I asked my workout buddy, he'll just say it is fine, but he is also one of those people with all kinds of workout supplements all the time (and also does not take medication or drugs besides marijuana)...Please dont answer if you just THINK it is okay, unless you have experience. Thanks for the input!!
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RobotRipping
Bluelighter
almost positive xanax does not cause liver damage. It's not alcohol. Not sure about mixing it with creatine though.