Limits to Decadence

[captainballs]

I define decadence as the degree to which resources are allocated to a single effect. Here on Earth, we have examples such as the sculpture "For the Love of God," which is a skull covered in over 8,000 flawless diamonds. Before we put a simple price tag on it, think about the amount of time and blind luck nature has to endure to produce even regular diamonds, let alone flawless ones. In the presence of such demand for diamonds, consider how decadent it is to allocate such rare diamonds for a completely aesthetic and practically useless cause.

A better example would be the use of energy for decadent purposes. Imagine a time far in the future where infrastructure has been developed to drain an entire sun of its energy, or better yet to harness an entire galaxy. Knowing what human nature is, how do you suppose this technology would be used in practice? i believe that if we could actually see the level of decadence afforded by such technology, we would probably think we were looking at a science fiction parody. I'm pretty sure entire galaxies would be melted just to provide massive levels of social activity and entertainment. I doubt such levels of energy usage would provide any equitable society at all - just more ridiculous forms of decadence that are probably unimaginable, coupled with incalculably greater levels of income inequality.

Is decadence something that can ever be stopped, or is it just a function of nature only limited in practice by the levels of attainable resources?

 

[ninjadanslarbretabar]

Is decadence something that can ever be stopped

let me quote a bad religion song called entropy:

"random blobs of power expressed as that which we all disregard,
ordered states of nature on a scale that no one thinks about,
don't speak to me of anarchy of peace or calm revolt,
man, we're in a play of slow decay orchestrated by boltzmann,

it's entropy, it's not a human issue,
entropy, it's a matter of course,
entropy, energy at all levels,
entropy, from it you can not divorce
and your pathetic moans of suffrage tend to lose all significance,

extinction, degradation;
the natural outcomes of our ordered lives,
power, motivation; temporary fixtures for which we strive,
something in our synapses assures us we're ok
but in our disquilibrium we simply can not stay,
it's entropy......

a stolid proposition from a man unkempt as I,
my affectatious I can not rectify,
but we are out of equilibrium unnaturally,
a pang of consciousness of death
and then you will agree "

song : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXIq_O2lAsQ

and here is the wiki for entropy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

 

[Jabberwocky]

gaaaah i'm not sure the analogy to entropy works. by having such great command and control over our environments we are increasing the order in the world, not decreasing it, which is entropys thing (in a closed system).... am probably overthinking it.

i do think, if we don't kill ourselves through war this century, we will come up with energy sources than look like science fiction parodies, and probably use resources from outer space (well, we already do, the sun, but we can do that on our arses). i'm not sure if i would call this decadence though. to me the thirst to create knowledge and hence technology are not in themselves decadent. i consider it more an extension to evolution. moulding our environments to our needs (in this case, energy), surely gives us an evolutionary advantage.

though i agree that asigning huge amounts of resources to one thing seems decadent, i'd want to know what they were allocated for. cern used huge amounts of both money and energy for a single purpose but has given us the internet and massive leaps in parallel computing as by products. to me decadence indiactes a total waste. had they used that money and energy to create a statue like the one you mentioned, its clearly decadant and unlikely to ever contribute anything to humanity.

i kind of consider decadence in terms of hedonism- involving a solely pleasure seeking aspect. in which case i'd guess its part of human nature and can't be stopped. but then i consider myself a hedonist but not particularly decadent, so there's more subtelty to it.

 

[captainballs]

let me quote a bad religion song called entropy:

"random blobs of power expressed as that which we all disregard,
ordered states of nature on a scale that no one thinks about,
don't speak to me of anarchy of peace or calm revolt,
man, we're in a play of slow decay orchestrated by boltzmann,

it's entropy, it's not a human issue,
entropy, it's a matter of course,
entropy, energy at all levels,
entropy, from it you can not divorce
and your pathetic moans of suffrage tend to lose all significance,

extinction, degradation;
the natural outcomes of our ordered lives,
power, motivation; temporary fixtures for which we strive,
something in our synapses assures us we're ok
but in our disquilibrium we simply can not stay,
it's entropy......

a stolid proposition from a man unkempt as I,
my affectatious I can not rectify,
but we are out of equilibrium unnaturally,
a pang of consciousness of death
and then you will agree "

song : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXIq_O2lAsQ

and here is the wiki for entropy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

You may not believe this is possible, but this thread was preceded by me reading deep into entropy as well as Boltzman brains! It seemed to merge naturally with the idea that decadence might reach some sort of mathematical limit. I can't completely explain how it all fits together in my mind in a way that would seem rational, but when I read your post and the lyrics to the song I was like "wtf, what a small world."

 

[morpher001]

Entropy may not be relevant given the size of the system. The system is pretty massive by all accounts, its just a question of our being able to suck the energy out of it efficiently and bend it to our needs. Energy isn't subject to entropy so we cant ever run out as such, until its all simultaneously in use I guess. But gee thats a way off.

Hopefully we learn how to drain the life out of the universe before we run out before we run out of all the easy fuel (and other scarcities).