• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Lets talk paranormal!

Science does not concern itself with what is real but what can be observed and repeated.

What exactly is the difference?

Xorkoth I'm not sure I agree with how you characterize it either. I think the vast majority of scientists throughout history would never even entertain the concept of "magic", or whatever you want to call it. Magic implies that there is no explanation behind why something is happening or how it works...it "just happens" and there's nothing else to it.

The magician pulls a rabbit out of a hat. A scientist yesterday or a thousand years ago wouldn't just accept that he made the animal materialize out of thin air. They'd start working out theories as to how they done it. Pretty soon they will figure out that it's all sleight of hand and diversion rather than a mortal human bending the laws of nature.

Now maybe you would have a point if you said that society in general labels things as magic (aka superstition aka religion) but I disagree that science does or ever really has.
 
What exactly is the difference?

Good question.

Science concerns itself with a branch of reality but not the total sum of reality.

Follow this through rationally. If there are things that are real but science cannot yet qualify them, then it is more limited in scope than the reality it is observing.

Yes, we can say that science may hypothetically one day know those things, but that doesn't mean they are known now.

Science doesn't consider things real unless they can be materially measured. That's why science is one branch and philosophy is another.

tl;dr science doesn't know everything and there are things arising in reality that science can't qualify.
 
Follow this through rationally. If there are things that are real but science cannot yet qualify them, then it is more limited in scope than the reality it is observing.

I get what you are trying to say but I'm still not sure this is the real purpose of science. If we're being honest the question "what is real?" could be interpreted many different ways.

Yeah sure the word real comes from reality and I've been using nature and reality interchangeably...

Idk...I'm starting to get out of my depth now but I think my main point from the last post still holds up.
 
Science doesn't consider things real unless they can be materially measured.

Not entirely true. Science is currently considering things that can only be inferred such as dark matter and dark energy. In fact, those two things are literally things that most scientists are acknowledging that they don't know and cannot really measure or observe. I guess the inferences are based on measurements though.

The things that science doesn't currently know don't speak to a problem with the scientific method, it speaks only of a current lack of scientific knowledge. Scientists didn't used to understand relativity, some now do. Knowledge is gained by developing theories through applied observation and conducting experiments to test those theories. Science isn't something that could ever be considered complete.

there are things arising in reality that science can't qualify

...yet.

Think of astrology and how it has been disproven and demonstrated to be no greater than random nonsense and people still believe it. There are things arising that science can actually disqualify and the response is often a criticism of science itself. Most paranormal things are of a similar nature imo.
 
Not entirely true. Science is currently considering things that can only be inferred such as dark matter and dark energy. In fact, those two things are literally things that most scientists are acknowledging that they don't know and cannot really measure or observe. I guess the inferences are based on measurements though.

That's what's called a hypothesis. Then the means are created to test the hypothesis. If a test can be repeated with the same result, then the hypothesis is proven. This is how deductive reasoning works.

What I said is true because the hypothesis of dark matter is based upon observations which in of themselves are based on pre-existing proven laws. So even dark matter is at least loosely connected to established science. A theory that is not based on any prior principles is called conjecture, and to science anything that is not deducible by reductionist means is conjecture.

The things that science doesn't currently know don't speak to a problem with the scientific method, it speaks only of a current lack of scientific knowledge. Scientists didn't used to understand relativity, some now do. Knowledge is gained by developing theories through applied observation and conducting experiments to test those theories. Science isn't something that could ever be considered complete.

Lack of knowledge is a given. Some scientists go further to comment on what is real, which to me is an epistemological statement and not a scientific one. Nonetheless, many scientists behave this way, especially self-described ones.


Scientifically speaking, if it's not measured it doesn't exist.

Think of astrology and how it has been disproven and demonstrated to be no greater than random nonsense and people still believe it. There are things arising that science can actually disqualify and the response is often a criticism of science itself. Most paranormal things are of a similar nature imo.

I've practiced astrology professionally for 10 years. It's real. There are literally hundreds of pre-modern texts on astrology, dating back to Babylonia. Even the Romans practiced it. I've read the scientific studies done on astrology. They are mostly done by lay people who have no academic or practice background in astrology, and their main critique is that there is no mechanism. The history of astrology is about inductive reasoning, and not deductive which reasoning requires knowledge of a mechanism. Pre-modern western science was a mix of inductive and deductive reasoning until the late enlightenment period when the branched off.

Astrology and astronomy used to be the same thing until the enlightenment era when natural philosophy (a.k.a early science) diverged. The same thing happened with chemistry and alchemy. The reason for the split was deductive vs. inductive reasoning.

Science can and should disqualify things within its system according to lack of deductive mechanisms. What it should not do is say something isn't real because the mechanism isn't observable. That denies traditional knowledge and other kinds of science that pre-date the western school of rationality.

Interestingly, the culture of western philosophy is unique in that it actively discards its own past. For example, I know a traditional alchemist who lives in NY state. They are a rare breed now, but he does really amazing work. Alchemy still contains really relevant and useful ideas, but science now completely discards alchemy as vestigial. However, the culture of eastern philosophy is integrative. Chinese medicine (which I'm licensed in) has a relatively unbroken line of thought going back to oracle bone script which is 2000+ years old. They never discarded anything, they kept most of it. The same with India.

Western philosophy has a bad habit of being dismissive. You see it in the sciences now. In 200 years, they will have discarded today's science as well when the next big paradigm is discovered. Fundamentally, the western school is seeking a perfection by jumping ship from one thing to the next. The eastern schools seek perfection through refinement of tradition.
 
Last edited:
053e70955133464623a246ebf34266310e037a-v5-wm.jpg
 
Have to see the whole chart, not just the Sun sign.

Sun sign astrology is bullshit.

And I have no interest in convincing you.

I once posted my astrological chart on Facebook. Afterwards I began experiencing various phenomena, like someone were attacking me and manipulating my life.

I was told that my astrological "information" was very peculiar.

Is it safe to let other people know about such personal information? :/

-Erl
 
I once posted my astrological chart on Facebook. Afterwards I began experiencing various phenomena, like someone were attacking me and manipulating my life.

I was told that my astrological "information" was very peculiar.

Is it safe to let other people know about such personal information? :/

-Erl

I wouldn't.

It's not unsafe but if someone is good at astrology they'll pretty much know everything about you.
 
What's convenient? That I don't feel like wasting my Sunday proving a skeptic wrong? lol

Yeah.

Nah, in all seriousness, it's just really weird to me that everyone with all this belief/experience in the supernatural has absolutely no desire in proving that it's true.

I get that you don't need validation from me and that the true reward comes from within...but if it were me I'd want others to believe me.

Too bad James Randi retired...I'm not sure if his million dollar challenge is still going or not. Decades gone by, not one winner.
 
Yeah.

Nah, in all seriousness, it's just really weird to me that everyone with all this belief/experience in the supernatural has absolutely no desire in proving that it's true.

I get that you don't need validation from me and that the true reward comes from within...but if it were me I'd want others to believe me.

Too bad James Randi retired...I'm not sure if his million dollar challenge is still going or not. Decades gone by, not one winner.

Much of the time, I try things to see for myself if they work or not. I don't rely on someone else's say so.
 
Also, in all practicality, I normally charge people money to do a chart reading. It's very mentally laborious.
 
One time I was walking outside at night and saw an orb floating across someone's roof. I was high on Etiz years ago when I used to walk around at night looking at the stars, but there are some strange things out there. I recorded it. If you look closely, you can see the orb flicker out and disappear then reappear into a much smaller sphere.

Tell me what you guys think: Could it be a spirit? An alien? Who knows...

 
I have no idea. Looks pretty odd, but there is also virtually no detail so I'm sure it looked way different to you than it does in this video.
 
I have no idea. Looks pretty odd, but there is also virtually no detail so I'm sure it looked way different to you than it does in this video.

Yeah, to me it looked like a giant glowing ball floating across the air. I've never seen anything like it. What made it really extraordinary is how it disappeared and reappeared. I suck at filming. haha
 
"Guardian Angels Appearing in White Orbs
White orbs appear more often than colored orbs, and that makes sense because guardian angels travel in white orbs, and guardian angels are present with people more than any other type of angel.

If a guardian angel appears to you inside an orb, it may be to simply encourage you that you are loved and cared for, or it may be to inspire you to have faith when you're going through challenging circumstances. Usually, when angels manifest in orbs, they don't have complex messages to deliver. Showing up in an orb is a simple, unimposing way of blessing those to whom they appear."


That's what I think it could've been. I felt peace when looking at it. It's like it felt me looking at it because that's when it began to flicker out and reappear. It's like it was some kind of entity...like it had a mind of its own.
 
Top