• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Let's talk about Racism

qwe said:
(as well as possible negatives? why don't you explicate these negative impacts? the positives are sort of obvious)
Click to expand...
I read of a small group discussion in a university class in the 90's in Minnesota. People were asked about how they felt about homosexuality. A student said he thought it was a psychological problem for which people ought seek treatment. He was disciplined for some charge that didn't quite equal hate speak.

Organizations with a heavy emphasis on political correctness are often at the same time trying to put out a message that all ideas and cultures are valid. (Except well not THOSE ideas). If Camille Paglia were a untenured instructor many places a lot of her ideas would result in dismissal. I don't dig every Paglia idea but I do like people who agitate against group think quite a bit.

A problem here is some people start to think every edgy contrary to possible group think positions is worthy of a lot of time and energy. Most aren't.

I'm getting off track there, a problem with political correctness is that it can appear or actually be Orwellian. Making and applying rules about speech and their underlying ideas is always going to seem uncomfortably fascist to many people. A complete comfortableness with enforcing political correctness would scare me, but some ideas expressed overtly would shut a lot of people out and create lots of distraction. It is no easy thing.
 
Another datum:

If I were to say, "Niggers in America incur higher rates of incarceration primarily because of geographically and ethno-racially concentrated poverty in inner cities (due largely to the flight of manufacturing from such areas), increased punitive police-surveillance, and implicit discrimination," would it change a single damned thing about anything I've said? It certainly wouldn't be politically correct. . . :P

ebola
 
Enki said:
I read of a small group discussion in a university class in the 90's in Minnesota. People were asked about how they felt about homosexuality. A student said he thought it was a psychological problem for which people ought seek treatment. He was disciplined for some charge that didn't quite equal hate speak.

Organizations with a heavy emphasis on political correctness are often at the same time trying to put out a message that all ideas and cultures are valid. (Except well not THOSE ideas). If Camille Paglia were a untenured instructor many places a lot of her ideas would result in dismissal. I don't dig every Paglia idea but I do like people who agitate against group think quite a bit.

A problem here is some people start to think every edgy contrary to possible group think positions is worthy of a lot of time and energy. Most aren't.

I'm getting off track there, a problem with political correctness is that it can appear or actually be Orwellian. Making and applying rules about speech and their underlying ideas is always going to seem uncomfortably fascist to many people. A complete comfortableness with enforcing political correctness would scare me, but some ideas expressed overtly would shut a lot of people out and create lots of distraction. It is no easy thing.
Click to expand...

Great post. I have a feeling some wont be happy until the US is set up exactly like the movie Demolition man. If people want to come across as racist ignorant bastards that should be their right imo
 
In defense of political correctness the sorts of speech that are prohibited are those that can have an effect of shutting down participation from a segment of possible participants. A lot of prohibited speech would be pure harassment or intimidation if allowed. Making those rules so that people aren't harassed or marginalized but so that everybody feels freedom of expression is still present is likely impossible, but I think the majority of people see the way it is most places as a reasonable compromise.
 
^ it's possible if/when people stop tying such strong attachments to words and symbols, and think for themselves.
 
There are somethings about race trait prevalence that are completely value neutral and that I have probed for the possible reason. These are anecdotal, personal observations.

Among blacks that smoke, menthol cigarettes seem more preferred than they are among other groups. As a waiter I noticed and heard observation from other waiters that African Americans are more likely to order their drinks without ice and their steaks well done- much like European tourists.

Immigrant Latinos in my area are much more likely to wear orange or turquoise colored trousers/jeans than any other group by far, I have no idea where they get them and they are less willing to give away info on colorful pants sources than they are to tell me if there are practicing brujos or curenderos in my area.

Anyways I believe the vast majority of differences in traits, among purported races both superficial and less superficial are cultural rather than genetic. I don't understand how differences have happened a lot of the time or what significance they hold but I think they are interesting.

I didn't ascribe any traits to Asians because the only two places I get to interact with Asians here in the mid-west USA are universities and casinos. Yes, I'm being factitious but it is true in my life. Excluding quite a few Filipino friends I really only see Asians at universities and casinos. This might be related to the demographics of the neighborhoods I'm in the most or something.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I try never to say "we" or "my country". I often say "the government" even though its not the only one....its the big one that puts people in prisons and drops bombs on them.

I dont believe in borders. I reject the legitimacy of national territory. I am an internationalist who rejects the proposed concept of a one world government.
 
In the evolutionary sense, various races have evolved differently. For example, some say that white ppl are more evolved than black ppl. In other beliefs we are all one. Such as in Christianity, we are all equal because we all came from Adam and Eve.

genki
 
Last edited:
^I am attempting to discern some content in your post and am not coming up with much.
Please don't post just to post

"Other beliefs" within "In other beliefs we are all one." would have to be specified for your post to begin to mean something.

Evolutionary sense. . . have evolved differently. (meaningless)

in a color sense is rather colorful

in a government sense is governmental
Please don't post just to post.
 
from his other posts, i can safely say that portillo has his heart in the right place. this post is just not worded very well.

porty, those "evolutionary differences" in appearance are so minute as to be practically non-existent.
 
FrankieBonez said:
....but certain races' positive/negative attributes and stereotypes are too obvious to me to not critically analyze.
Click to expand...

That's kinda how I feel. It's not that I think negatively of any race as a whole, but certain things I notice more in people of one race vs. another can bother me.

First of, a disclaimer: I'm not going to pretend like I'm a super cultured person or really educated on matters like this- I'm not at all. I haven't traveled much, and haven't studied matters like this beyond taking a 100-level Anthropology course at my university. I know my perspective is quite narrow, and that of a pretty privileged (I guess this is the best word to explain it..?) person in regards to my race and SES- I'm white and upper-middle class, which in the U.S. is definitely favored in the sense that I don't have to worry about too much racism or inequality or anything headed in my direction (being a woman changes that a little bit, but that's a whole 'nother issue ;) ). So I try to keep that in mind when I catch myself negatively judging someone's actions and attributing it to their race... because, of course, it can be pretty easy to judge others when you're treated in many instances like you are superior to them.

Without trying to sound like a huge bigot, but still trying to keep it real, I don't really understand the whole "hood" attitude that I see in a lot of black people I've encountered. I mean, to put it simply, I understand that all people in general tend to act the way those around them act- and if your family, friends, and neighbors are "hood", you probably will be too (like all those examples Ninja listed about the child who is abused will grow up to abuse, etc.)

BUT I don't understand it in the sense that I don't get it's appeal- again, not trying to sound like an asshole, but I think it seems kinda dumb and not attractive. Like acting all "badass" and talking like "nigga this, nigga that", that sort of behavior, to loosely summarize it. It just annoys me. I don't know what else to say about it. And I obviously realize that not all or only black people do this, and it's certainly not a genetic "trait". So really it's not even about race itself... the level of melatonin in one's skin isn't going to determine this sort of thing. It's just that IME a higher percentage of blacks do this than whites, so unconsciously I'll sometimes attribute the behavior to race. That's where I am guilty. But I guess knowing is the first step to changing...
 
Last edited:
Portillo- and P&S folk, I apologize for my crabbiness in my last post in this thread. I'll PM Porillo a more thorough apology I t was a carry over from several other situations having nothing to do with you and it was unfair for me to go at you about that issue. Really sorry.

Two totally neutral things about African Americans that I've always wondered about. Why are blacks that smoke overwhelmingly more likely to smoke menthols & why are they more likely to order in a restaurant like a European requesting little or no ice in their drinks and their meat well done? Both just my observations, I have no statistics on this :/
 
Enki, the menthol cigarettes are due to an early ad campaign by Kool™ Cigarettes, capitalizing on the ideal of 'cool' -- the detached and calm state that black Americans have long held up as an ideal in the face of discrimination and hardship.

I have no idea about ordering drinks without ice. I do that. Always have. For me, it comes from my father and grandfather, who were both very frugal men.

In a similar vein, I've noticed that Native American men are considerably more likely than men of other races to have minor facial scars. Has anyone else noticed this? Why do you think this is?
 
As far as Native Americans having more facial scars, I have noticed this before. I had hypothesized that the Lakota, Dakota, and related clans in my area were perhaps more prone to keloid and hypertrophic scarring but I just did a bit of research and didn't find anything to confirm that theory. Native Americans are about the same likelihood to have keloid & HT scarring as other ethnic groups like African American and Latinos. Perhaps they are far less likely to get ER attention and followup for lacerations?

No evidence that they are more likely to be hockey players as far as I can tell. ;) I have an odd guilty feeling about using the they word towards other ethnic groups that often makes me double check what I'm saying, like a spidey danger sense-unless I'm out to be deliberately inappropriate-which seldom works well for me. Some people have a real gift for being inappropriate and insightful or funny at the same time. I've learned its not a skill I can readily emulate. </tangent>
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
Enki, the menthol cigarettes are due to an early ad campaign by Kool™ Cigarettes, capitalizing on the ideal of 'cool' -- the detached and calm state that black Americans have long held up as an ideal in the face of discrimination and hardship.

I have no idea about ordering drinks without ice. I do that. Always have. For me, it comes from my father and grandfather, who were both very frugal men.

In a similar vein, I've noticed that Native American men are considerably more likely than men of other races to have minor facial scars. Has anyone else noticed this? Why do you think this is?
Click to expand...

i don't know why it is about black people = no ice, or for that matter, super extra ice?? but all of my black relatives do one extreme or another.

i agree about native americans re; facial scars. i lived around a lot of desert indians, and it just seemed to go along with the atmosphere in which they live in. but there could be genetic reasons for this -- tribes like Pima are used in research about diabetes and such.
 
the only race specific trait like this that i have confidence in its legitimacy is the staggering effects of alcohol and other intoxicants on australian aborigines. thousands of years without any exposure to such things have, in my opinion, created uniquely low tolerance levels in their genes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top