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Lets talk about GABA (as a supplement) again

lighterbandit said:
what are some gaba prodrugs that may be of interest?
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L-theanine, phenibut....? I think. I know that L-theanine coudl be seen as a prodrug for GABA production.

Is there any chance that GABA can be metabolised into GHB- isn't it simply replacing the amino with a hyrdoxy group, of which I'm sure our bodies could produce. Hydroclhric acid in stomach, etc... I have read there is no evidence of that, but as GABA is a very close 'analogue' to GHB, could it not be possible? My first consluion whenI cosumed GABA was the definte similarity between it and GHB.

But yeah, I think, in hindisght, that GABA has definte peripheral effect wihich are anxiolytic, in the sense that if anxiety is being caused by the physical symptoms of hypoglycemia, common for weed and methheads, GABA seems able to reset some of that. Some allege that GABA use can actually completely anhilate sugar-related anxiety.
 
narutokun said:
This sounds unlikely, you got any articles to confirm? That reaction really seems like bogus to me. 8(
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No, I have heard of GABA supps with B6, though my undertsanding was that b6 really only helps to synth GABA in the body...

One thing that I don't think I mentioned- I consumed 2 grams of GABA, and experienced what to me would be typical effects; cramped feeling chest, pins and needles, extreme and weird body sensation...this lasts for only about 10-15 minutes for me. On this occasion I consumed 5mg of diazepam, after the inital 'peak' effects of the GABA had worn off; within half and hour the effects were back. So in some way, I think it is able to get to the brain, maybe with a benzodiazepine to encourage.
 
If it is at all, it has to be a very uncommon event. GHB is present in only low levels, but GABA in massive quantities- so GHB levels really can't be related to the level of GABA.

I'm not aware of anything in the body that would do such a reaction.
 
Yes I concur, and even if such reaction occured having vitamin B6 as a catalyst only doesn't sound that very much surprising.
 
swilow said:
No, I have heard of GABA supps with B6, though my undertsanding was that b6 really only helps to synth GABA in the body...

One thing that I don't think I mentioned- I consumed 2 grams of GABA, and experienced what to me would be typical effects; cramped feeling chest, pins and needles, extreme and weird body sensation...this lasts for only about 10-15 minutes for me. On this occasion I consumed 5mg of diazepam, after the inital 'peak' effects of the GABA had worn off; within half and hour the effects were back. So in some way, I think it is able to get to the brain, maybe with a benzodiazepine to encourage.
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Yes, it's common knowledge that many of the B vitamins are essencial for in vivo synthesis of various compounds. I agree with you, but from what Jamshyd said I was thinking he meant that vitamin B6 in specific played a role as a reactant in some kind of biochemical synthesis of GABA to GHB. That's what I meant that sounded like bs.
 
No, I was talking about picamilon, not GHB. And I just checked - its not even B6, it is B3 attached to a GABA molecule. Picamilon is a drug in itself and not just a special GABA supplement. It does remain a mystery though as to why a lot of GABA sold in the market has B6 with it. Not that I think it would react inside the body.

Willow: L-Theanine is not part of GABA synthesis. However, it does raise its rate of production. It, too, is a drug of its own - and has actions that aren't limited to GABA modulation. It is also an NMDA-antagonist, amongst other things. In my opinion, its a great supplement to take daily - but thats another story.
 
Don't you think if GABA could cross the BBB if would have significant effects in the high dosages taken? (and be abused!)

I think its possible though that there are unknown GABA receptors in the body,causing peripheral effects like those mentioned. Insects have GABA receptors in the body that modulate synapses between nerve and muscle cells (peripheral effects).

Those GABA prodrug esters are interesting though. I would like to know more about that!
 
Well, I tried this today. Keep in mind that I am currently on a taper from a benzo addiction so YMMV.

The preparation I got included some vit. B6 in it. In any case, I took 250mg GABA rectally. It is definitely active one way or another.

Within half an hour I felt almost everything that swillow mentioned... pins and needles, strange breething patterns, and even a couple of panic attacks.

It made me feel very "heavy" and dopey, not unlike alprazolam (which I hate).

The effects seemed to wane within 2 hours so I redosed the same, and got the same. Now the effects are waning again.

Not something I find useful in any way.

Lenses: GABA is as unselective as unselective can get. If has strong BBB permeability, then in all likelyhood its effects would be stupefying and lethargic, if not flat-out pass-out. Do not forget that GABA receptors exist outside the CNS, and the effects reported are probably largely due to those receptors.

EDIT: fixed
 
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Jamshyd said:


The preparation I got included some vit. B6 in it. In any case, I took 250mg GABA rectally. It is definitely active one way or another.

Within half an hour I felt almost everything that swillow mentioned... pins and needles, strange breething patterns, and even a couple of panic attacks.

It made me feel very "heavy" and dopey, not unlike alprazolam (which I hate).


EDIT: fixed
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Strange that you got similar effects,off a 'light' dose- I was taking aout a 2-3grams. But overall, it seems to be more anxiogenic then anxiolytic to some people. I purchased another ten grams for kicks- initial high dose of 3 didn't actually do much this time; an hour later after about 3-4 beers, similar dose and then MASSIVE pins n needles, constricted breathing; all my partiular symptoms of anxiety. I don't actually mind the feeling, but I canna see the point in it, and threw the rest away.

I should add; in my first experiments with GABA which are mentioned on page one of this thread, I had been taking kava as well, and valerian/passionflower/scullcap extracts. I thought that may have contributed to the 'effects' I felt....Though I take B vitamin supplemtns everyday, so I don't know if that contributes...

GABA is plain weird. I had one of the most horrible hangovers I've eve had fter consuming it with alchohol; literally shaking, slightly delerious, etc.
 
retrogradeamnesia:

You mention a relationship between sugar levels, anxiety and a history of pot or amphetamine use? Sounds interesting, could you give us some pointers about this?
 
Jamshyd said:
Ok, I was scanning the forums for opinions and studies, and this seems to be about as inconclusive as the Loperamide question.

So lets open this can of worms again. What say ye, o wise ones?

I never tried this due to the prominent idea that GABA is innefective due to not crossing the BBB. Then I find people claiming that it can do that via active transport. In any case, I'll probably pick a bottle of this (since its cheap) tomorrow and give my input. Till then, let me know what you think.
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GABA like most neurotransmitters ineffectively penetrates the BBB. In doses of 2 grams or higher it will to some degree however you are also increasing GABA levels in the body which can effect breathing to an extent. Also there are less than 5 human clinical studies done on GABA that I can find on pubmed.

I would instead suggest any of the following GABA related or effecting compounds:

Picamilon
Theanine
Gabapentin
Pregabalin (controlled in the US)
Tiagabine
 
i found when i took 1+grams of gaba i got the effects jamshyd described.

when i dropped it down to 100 to 250 mg, it would completly take away any anxiety i have, and just relax me. I can drinik bucketloads of espresso, start freaking out, have 250mg of gaba and be normal again.

but i take it orally.

now, i dunno if this is placebo effect, but who cares, when im anxious, gaba fixes me. maybe im a freak :)
 
marklar_the_23rd said:
i found when i took 1+grams of gaba i got the effects jamshyd described.

when i dropped it down to 100 to 250 mg, it would completly take away any anxiety i have, and just relax me. I can drinik bucketloads of espresso, start freaking out, have 250mg of gaba and be normal again.

but i take it orally.

now, i dunno if this is placebo effect, but who cares, when im anxious, gaba fixes me. maybe im a freak :)
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Well it does still get into the body. Perhaps it's effecting your adrenals.
 
Well, there are gaba receptors peripherally as far as I know, ie. outside of the BBB. So taking gaba, like taking Serotonin WILL have an effect on those (with the latter, vascular issues, I believe).

Anyway, thanks for the advice NP. I have tried all of these and more. I currently use Gabapentin medicinally but unfortunately its effects wither over time. Luckily, if I take a break and come back, it works well.
 
^GABA receptors are very abundnt, I believe they are the most abundant mamallian receptors throughout the body (of mammals hehehehehehe). I think it only has peripheral effect; at least of a noticeable sort. I no longer take it, i ffeel like the breathing issue reminds me slightly of opiate intoxication without any of the good side....It also makes me feel physically 'panicky'.

Now if I could turn it into GHB I would be happy.
 
It took me a while to get the joke swilow- then I realized you were thinking mammarian ;)

silly
 
swilow said:
It also makes me feel physically 'panicky'.
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Wow, I take it when I feel physically panicky to stop that feeling. How odd that our reasons are the polar opposite of each other.


Now if I could turn it into GHB I would be happy.
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yeah, it would be nice to just have to eat some to convert it like gbl ;).
 
Hmm I must be in for it...my md prescribed me Gabapentin 300 mg cap apot whatever that means. Take 1 capsule by mouth 3 times daily. It says its a anticonvusant and used to reat seizures associated with epilepsy, may also treat nerve pain.. following herpes zoster infection or other conditions determined by your md. For some reason this is one med im kinda nervous about taking...must not be that bad tho.. :)
 
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