Legalize Methamphetamine!

[fairnymph]

It would be a disaster for the society if meth was legal...

Did you even READ the article?

That question goes out to anyone who thinks meth should remain illegal. How you can possibly have read that article, be of sane and sound mind and STILL think meth should be illegal, defies all logic.

Besides, the point isn't about whether the US would suffer from legalizing meth. The point is that EVERY PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT TO DO WITH HIS OWN BODY. If someone wants to ruin his life with meth, and no one here is arguing that meth isn't an abominable drug, that's his fucking choice. The government should not have the power to tell individual citizens what they do with their own bodies. END OF STORY!

 

[mariacallas]

good essay.. hits all the major points for legalization.

Agreed. I also highly recommend this book while were on the subject of legalization:

and

I have had occasion to talk privately and confidentially with many drug dealers for well over a decade. I estimate I have represented hundreds of drug dealers. Although some have simply been users who sell to support their habit, others have been major players in big drug organizations. I have found many of them to be bright people who are well aware that an end to the drug war would immediately put an end to their businesses. They realize that they could not compete with large corporations in a legal market. Their ability to make money by manufacturing, distributing and selling drugs exists solely because of the drug war. They very much want the war on drugs to continue and even expand.

Many drug dealers understand that each large drug bust brings increased profits for them. Although a drug seizure is bad news for the particular drug dealer involved, it is wonderful news for all the other drug dealers in the market. When you see government agents celebrating a large drug seizure, imagine all the other drug dealers celebrating along with them.

That is so f*cking true.

 

[fairnymph]

all those tweakers out there with endless amounts of product at hand things would go haywire REAL fuckin fast.

Broken record. We've already heard this foolish argument before. Remember prohibition? All those who wanted prohibition to remain in place had exactly the same argument. And they were all proven wrong -- alcohol consumption and addiction DECLINED in the not-too-long run when the ban on alcohol was lifted.

 

[Banquo]

sorry to take the prohibition side, but from a public policy standpoint, i agree that it would be extremely dangerous to have tweakers running around the streets without fear of state sanction. opiates, marijuana, and even MDMA do not induce the same sort of paranoia and violence that is associated with meth use.

under a personal rights analysis, my opinion might be different though. but it is impossible to look at this proposal without considering the practical implications.

 

[Disco Stu]

Broken record. We've already heard this foolish argument before. Remember prohibition? All those who wanted prohibition to remain in place had exactly the same argument. And they were all proven wrong -- alcohol consumption and addiction DECLINED in the not-too-long run when the ban on alcohol was lifted.

Alcohol isn't nearly as addictive as meth. Compare the number of people that are able to use alcohol responsibly and socially compared to the number of meth users who are able to use only on Saturday nights or in moderation.

 

[mariacallas]

In countries where the alcohol drinking age is 16, rates of alcohol-related problems appear to be lower than in the United States, where the drinking age is 21.[28] The National Institute on Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse reports that in 2003, 5.55% of Americans were either alcohol abusing or alcohol dependent. The Austrian drinking age is 16, and 2.2% are regarded as alcohol dependent.[29] The German drinking age is 16, and 3.9% of Germans’ alcohol use is considered harmful.

This is so true . Where I'm from our legal drinking age isnt even enforced to the fullest extent of the law like it is in the States...and drunk driving accidents / alcohol-fueled crime is very minimal and virtually non-existent. As a matter of fact I didnt even know what DUI meant until a few years ago. Asians dont have much of a stigma regarding alchohol the way Americans do....I've observed this frequently even on this message board.

Carry on.

 

[captainballs]

but I'd rather have a few robbers and killers exist than a whole lot of new people driving around in their SUVs high on meth, thinking that they are just normal and great because meth's legal



who said anything about legalizing driving while under the influence of drugs?

A separate issue (that coincidentally involves driving): When the speed limit is 40, people go 50. If they changed it to 50, people go 60. Marginal law breaking.

Plus, seriously: 90% of the meth users that I didn't learn about from "govt propaganda" are still going to drive, as long as they're not "too fucked up." Yes, there are rational meth users that wouldn't drive, and perhaps the only law they currently break are those that make doing meth illegal. But the world is chock full of morons. I just don't want those morons to keep marginally breaking the law, when the law already says "meth is legal."

Because marginal law breaking is the way the world works. We don't live in a machine that functions based on what the law or the govt says. People do whatever they want to a certain extent, and that extent is somewhat based on what the rules are. Lighten the rules, and people will bend them a bit more.

The best thing meth users can do is stay under the radar and hire good lawyers if they get caught. Same goes for me, and everyone else who does drugs. The world's not a fair place - I don't know what to tell you.

But the last people that deserve to feel the brunt of an unfair world are people walking around who get hit by meth-addled housewives in their SUVs. Because meth-addled housewives would drive their SUVs under the influence of meth, period. I understand some people are responsible, but you know this would happen all the time if meth was legal. It's not safe to legalize it, because not everyone is as responsible as the people on this board.

but I'd rather have a few robbers and killers exist than a whole lot of new people driving around in their SUVs high on meth, thinking that they are just normal and great because meth's legal



who said anything about legalizing driving while under the influence of drugs?

You can't apply the same general "stigma" argument to meth. It has different effects than alcohol. I won't draw any conclusions, but you have to take this into account. It it should be considered more complicated than just being able to compare the reults of lax alcohol laws.

 

[psychetool]

First of all alcohol doesn't even begin to compare to what meth does to a person both physically and mentally.

Second of all how many fucking tweakers do you know that practice 'moderation' ? About zero here.

2% of meth addicts recover compared to how many alcoholics ? Meth is far, far, far, far more addictive and dangerous on its own then alcohol. Not counting drunk driving because if tweek was legal think how many irrational crazy motherfuckers would be out on the road ? I don't know if y'all just have never hung out with tweekers before or what but they are CRAZY MOTHERFUCKERS - irrational jumpy competative and plain FUCKED UP. Alcohol doesn't do that to you. You can drink a 6 pack and wake up fine the next morning. You can't take a couple lines of tweak and expect to do anything the next morning unless of course you plan on going on a multiday speed binge which is oh so the rage with them these days. Either way the situation scares the crap out of me.

I suppose i'm against prosecution for meth, but outright legalization ? No.

 

[captainballs]

People with a meth problem deserve treatment. But legalization would send the wrong message. It's all about the message, even if that does sound like propaganda. We need to protect the people who have never even heard of meth from those who would act like compete morons if it was legal.

 

[panic_the_digital]

Perhaps if we had "safe tweaking sites" like they have safe injection sites in Switzerland. Give them the drugs for free, put them in a padded room, and let them kill each other. No one would sell it, because it is given away for free, and no one would tweak anymore because they all beat each other to death.

Problem solved.

 

[frizzantik]

But legalization would send the wrong message.

From the article at the start of this thread:

Some people posit that legalized meth would send the wrong message to people about using meth. However, the government’s role is not to send messages to us about what is right or wrong or good or bad. We don’t need messages from government. Free people determine for themselves how to run their lives. I have a right to be a self destructive idiot if I choose. I own me.

Additionally, the “messages from government” objection overlooks an important point. The concepts of legal and illegal are far different from the concepts of right and wrong or good and bad. Because an activity is legally permissible does not obligate people to conclude such an activity is right or good.

We need to protect the people who have never even heard of meth from those who would act like compete morons if it was legal.

if you haven't noticed, making meth illegal doesn't really stop anybody who wants it from getting it. Making drugs legal usually ends up causing the use of that drug to go down. Alcohol problems went down after prohibition ended. Cannabis use in the Netherlands is lower than the surrounding countries where it is illegal.

In addition, you'd get benefits like this:

1. All dangerous clandestine meth labs in residential neighborhoods would close;

2. All dangerous street gangs would be out of the meth business;

3. Every dime currently spent on meth prohibition could be spent on real crime; [27]

4. Meth addicts would have no legal disincentive to seek help;

5. The manufacture of meth would be safe and produce a consistent product; and

6. Toxic waste from meth production would be safely disposed.

Did you even read the article?

 

[OCjunky]

I dont think legalizing a downer is the same as legalizing an upper, and doesnt even come close to being in the same catagory.

If meth were legal than people would be doing meth at every oppurtunity they could get their hands on because it makes you productive, unlike with alcohol, it is something to use to relax, and kinda feel tired, and has a line thats drawn. But once you start doing meth everyday, you dont want to ever feel tired again, thus you need the drug EVERYDAY which would lead you into a poor lifestyle resulting in all your money being spent on keeping you feel productive.

Legalizing meth would be like legalizing coke.

But if your talking about doing whatever you choose to your own body, then why not make all drugs legal.

 

[jopo]

I didn't really care as I dont do Meth, but if it gets legalized, I could see a good chain like reaction with other drugs.

 

[fairnymph]

Alcohol isn't nearly as addictive as meth.

Wrong! Alcohol is actually MORE addictive.

 

[fairnymph]

Perhaps people are also forgetting that stimulants, like meth and coke, WERE once widely available and legal in this country. And it was not a 'disaster'.

Look to history.

 

[Mr. Robo-Tripper]

We would have more skinny women...no fatties!

 

[fairnymph]

Because meth-addled housewives would drive their SUVs under the influence of meth, period.

And then they would be charged with a DUI, just as they would if they were driving under the influence of any other drug.

Some of you seem to have this idea that if meth were made legal, there would suddenly be a bunch of hooligans running about, doing whatever they liked without legal consequence.

It simply doesn't work that way. Driving under the influence, breaking and entering, etc are all still ILLEGAL, and would remain so. If meth addicts did try to be more obnoxious/destructive with the legalization of meth (which I don't believe in the first place, but regardless), they'd still be arrested and punished. Legalizing meth would not magically eradicate the police state that the US has become.

 

[fairnymph]

But if your talking about doing whatever you choose to your own body, then why not make all drugs/

The article, frizzantik and myself all appear to support legalization of ALL drugs, across the board.

 

[OCjunky]

^oh, ok

 

[captainballs]

Originally Posted by captainballs
But legalization would send the wrong message.


From the article at the start of this thread:


Quote:
Some people posit that legalized meth would send the wrong message to people about using meth. However, the government’s role is not to send messages to us about what is right or wrong or good or bad. We don’t need messages from government. Free people determine for themselves how to run their lives. I have a right to be a self destructive idiot if I choose. I own me.

Well, if that's what the article says...

In addition, you'd get benefits like this:
Quote:
1. All dangerous clandestine meth labs in residential neighborhoods would close;

2. All dangerous street gangs would be out of the meth business;

3. Every dime currently spent on meth prohibition could be spent on real crime; [27]

4. Meth addicts would have no legal disincentive to seek help;

5. The manufacture of meth would be safe and produce a consistent product; and

6. Toxic waste from meth production would be safely disposed.

Did you even read the article?

Yes, I read the articles completely unsubstantiated list of "what would happen" section The truth is, we're just on different sides of this issue. I respect the legalize everything stance, but I believe that society needs at least a transitional phase. Seriously, think about the children...

Fortunately, the people in charge agree with me on this particular issue, and I don't have to argue it except on a super-hypothetical plane. From my perspective, the government is doing exactly what I want it to in this situation, so to me its doing its job. But this is a purely subjective standpoint, almost as ridiculous as this lawyer claiming to know exactly "what the government is supposed to do." It's not a fair world, but thatnk god it's not full of meth-addled suburban moms, who already drive like fucking maniacs without meth.

Because meth-addled housewives would drive their SUVs under the influence of meth, period.
And then they would be charged with a DUI, just as they would if they were driving under the influence of any other drug.

Yeah, a DUI solves everything except for the initial insane increase in brutal meth-related accidents.

You guys seems to forget that with legalization comes marketing. With marketing comes a larger customer base. You can not convince me otherwise. I just don't think it's wise to go straight from illegal to legal. Society is not ready, nor are they educated or responsible enough.