Legalize Methamphetamine!

Of course there are people like me that would love to see meth legalized, because we would go into business marketing that shit overtly to adults, and subliminally to children. And make billions while national healthcare systems got overloaded with poor, self-control-lacking, inexperienced new addicts.

And there are people like me, ready to jump on this shit. Except they have the capital, employees, and lawyers to do it right. What about the bad guys? Hmmmmm? Where do they fit into this meth utopia? At the top.
 
Well fuck you for trying to police MY life. That's really all I have to say. Mind your own goddamn business, both you and the govt.

For the record, I hate meth and think it is the most evil substance in existence. But I don't act like I have a right to say what other people do with their personal lives.
 
captainballs said:
You guys seems to forget that with legalization comes marketing. With marketing comes a larger customer base. You can not convince me otherwise.
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Unfortunately the statistics are not on your side, but if you plainly admit you're not open to the possibility that you are wrong, then there isn't really any point in continuing the discussion.

because we would go into business marketing that shit overtly to adults, and subliminally to children. And make billions while national healthcare systems got overloaded with poor, self-control-lacking, inexperienced new addicts.


hey it works for tobacco or macdonalds!

and if you're really concerned about the health care system, perhaps we could put some of the money made from the taxes on drug sales toward treating drug related problems.
 
^^You all seem to be forgetting that every legalization plan (and not just thought experiment like this) includes a heavy regulation system for the availability of the more dangerous/addictive substances. There would be a network with all of your data (health issues etc) and drug purchase history that would flag you if you bought too much, and many plans I have seen mandate rehab programs for those whose purchase rate becomes too frequent. Not to mention that nearly every plan also includes some sort of "drug licensing" program where you must take classes before you can purchase certain drugs. How many new people do you think would try meth after seeing on paper the horrible effects it can have on you. The big oversight so many people on bluelight make is that not everyone wants to try drugs or do them a lot! There are LOTS of people out there who wouldn't do drugs even if they were legal - I know I wouldn't do meth even if it were legal! And the number of people who don't do drugs because of their illegality is very small - how many people do you know don't do drugs because they're scared of getting caught? The increase in use would only be marginal if drugs were legalized. Just look to Dutch society to see what happens.
 
Unfortunately the statistics are not on your side, but if you plainly admit you're not open to the possibility that you are wrong, then there isn't really any point in continuing the discussion.
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I don't want to argue about this, but you'd be hard pressed to prove with statistics that legal meth wouldn't get its market base inflated by people looking for a profit. To be fair, I have nothing evidence-wise to prove that I'm right except for anecdotes about other stuff like alcohol and cigarettes (two drugs which I don't think can fairly be compared to meth in any sense for any purpose). So I could be wrong, a quality that differentiates me from our lawyer friend apparently.

Actually, if this were a real summit on the legalization of meth, the discussion would begin here. Both sides need to make compromises, and I think both sides recognize that the main issue is regulation (and possibly a twenty year plan to make meth legal as opposed to just making it legal right now). Politics must move very slow, in accordance with all of society's views, not just the radical thoughts of a persecuted few (although your insights are indeed the catalyst for the beginnings of this change, they are clearly not the solution in themselves).

For the record, I hate meth and think it is the most evil substance in existence. But I don't act like I have a right to say what other people do with their personal lives.
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But when too many people are using meth, there is a sect of us that feel like that is affecting our lives (a... quite large sect that need their minds changed over the course of a long period of time). And no, it's not fair. Shake that fist! Move on out! Move on out!

There are facts in a vaccuum, and then there are people who have a negative view of meth based on experience with other people changing.

So the question is: where do we start now, knowing what you know about how people feel about meth (and also considering that these people "run things")? I'll let you know right now that a DUI for meth driving is not going to cut it. There must be a preventative measure put in place. Some kind of technology, because keeping people from behind the wheel of lethal motor vehicle is the only way you could convince me to vote for legalization.
 
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captainballs said:
There are facts in a vaccuum, and then there are people who have a negative view of meth based on experience with other people changing.
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...from using methamphetamine under illicit/unregulated/uninformed circumstances.

But hey, it's a lot easier to blame a drug than blame the way society deals with a drug, so I don't blame those people for having a negative view of meth.

Drugs are kinda like nuclear power.. Their use can be destructive, or controlled and responsible. I deeply hope we can, as a race, learn to minimize the former and encourage the latter. Almost any regulation deeper than prohibition is a step in the right direction.
 
There really are not THAT many meth users. It's nothing like pot or alcohol. I don't see your point at all, with such a small population.
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If it was legalized, I think there would be more. I think. It depends on the circumstances, and on how hardcore the government regulated it. Sort of like now: it's illegal and stigmatized as hell (thanks in part to real life anecdotes and govt propaganda), so we don't have a whole lot of tweakers.

Additionally, the “messages from government” objection overlooks an important point. The concepts of legal and illegal are far different from the concepts of right and wrong or good and bad. Because an activity is legally permissible does not obligate people to conclude such an activity is right or good.[10] Merely because the law allows my kids to insult other kids doesn’t prevent my wife and me from successfully teaching them not to do it. The unwillingness or inability of many people to invest the mental acuity to distinguish between these concepts has contributed to an intellectual feeblemindedness which is akin to a malignant tumor killing our society. The “messages from government” objection nourishes that tumor. We should embrace the concept that we are free to adopt personal standards of conduct which exceed the minimal threshold defined by law.
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It is nice to see a lawyer who hasn't lost that sense of waving his verbal magic wand and expecting the world to act in a certain idealized fashion. You can tell he's good, right?
 
It depends on the circumstances, and on how hardcore the government regulated it. Sort of like now: it's illegal and stigmatized as hell (thanks in part to real life anecdotes and govt propaganda), so we don't have a whole lot of tweakers.


well of course it would need to be regulated. it's not like i think you should be able to go down to 7-11 and grab a pack of MethICE - "The cool meth" or anything.

Education would also be critical. i'm not in favor of gov't lies as much as honest and factual information. Anecdotal evidence has no value except as a propaganda tool, so I would discourage that as well.
 
kittyinthedark said:
^^You all seem to be forgetting that every legalization plan (and not just thought experiment like this) includes a heavy regulation system for the availability of the more dangerous/addictive substances. There would be a network with all of your data (health issues etc) and drug purchase history that would flag you if you bought too much, and many plans I have seen mandate rehab programs for those whose purchase rate becomes too frequent. Not to mention that nearly every plan also includes some sort of "drug licensing" program where you must take classes before you can purchase certain drugs.
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I was kinda joking bout the macdonalds bit.. obviously drugs would have to be regulated much more than junk food (though junk food ought to be regulated much more than it is now, but thats another thread). I'd support an outright ban on all forms of advertising for meth and other drugs deemed "hard". A drug licensing program might not be a bad idea, though being literate shouldn't be a prerequisite for being allow to get fucked up, as long as you can demonstrate you understand the dangers.

This could be done in a decentralized way similar to the way medical cannabis cards are given out by certain doctors in california. if a centralized database was absolutely needed, it could still be made anonymous.

Limiting retail sales to reasonable amounts wouldn't be a problem and i also wouldn't have a problem with sales people not being allowed to sell to people who look like they're way fucked up or way addicted. Perhaps they could be forced to talk to a rehab counselor and get the counselor to sign off on something before the user can get more of the drug.

i'm not opposed to strict regulations, just because the consequences are pretty severe if someone uses certain drugs without any knowledge of what they are doing. I can't in good conscience allow a fully competent adult to do something that may harm them if they aren't fully aware of the risk. However, if they are completely aware, i can't in good conscience prevent them.
 
fairnymph said:
The article, frizzantik and myself all appear to support legalization of ALL drugs, across the board.
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Me too. :) Not an American tho..but I've always been all for legalization of all drugs, as farfetched as it may seem.
 
If it was legalized, I think there would be more. I think.
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But prohibition tells us otherwise. Furthermore, the word-of-mouth stigma meth has -- and rightly deserves -- will never disappear. Most intelligent people realize meth is a dangerous drug. Some people choose, knowingly, to disregard that information. Others are simply idiots, and there's no hope for them anyway, IMO.
 
Pretty much if we legalized any drug, that would mean the rest of the world would too. Cuase basically our market would be over flowing with drugs, that means a lot of people would love to try and set up a drug group in other countries where the drug is still illegal.
 
But prohibition tells us otherwise. Furthermore, the word-of-mouth stigma meth has -- and rightly deserves -- will never disappear. Most intelligent people realize meth is a dangerous drug. Some people choose, knowingly, to disregard that information. Others are simply idiots, and there's no hope for them anyway, IMO.
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Right - there is no hope for them. One of the plans I came up with is a tax for meth that the government sends directly to the national healthcare system. And maybe another tax on top of that one that goes to schools in Texas (hey, gotta look out for number 1, or in our case number 47 or so).
 
I figure people are always gonna find what they want in terms of drugs, whether it is legal or illegal. I'd prefer it all to be legal and standardized myself, so at least people knew for sure what they were taking. And the tax revenue would surely be a boon. I believe usage can be regulated through the pricing of things. Cigs went way up in price and I smoke less now as a consequence. Plus, if drugs were legal, then the medical community would be better able to assess and treat OD cases, etc.

The key is always to educate people, not to control them. Drugs are only illegal now so to maintain the power structure of control...the fear institution. I think in the US it is something like 70% of the jail population are drug related. Again, look at cigs. All those ant smoking ads seem to be working in conjunction with the price hikes...smoking is way down these days. Of course each drug would require its own unique management strategy, but the choice should always be made by the individual.
 
I think this guys article mainly revolves around the point that we as individuals have our own opinions on what we want to put into our bodies. He just uses meth as his example for legalization because a majority of his cases deal with meth, he even says something about making all illegal drugs legal. Although alot more problems are associated with tweakers than there are with etards and potheads.
 
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