Legalization of medicinal psychedelics VS. big pharma

[Deleted member 290563]

I see all this hype about using psychs for therapeutic tools and all that. Even clinical trials under way. But this stuff will NEVER become legal bc big pharma will lobby the government to keep it illegal for obvious reasons. So how does anybody ever think they will out lobby big pharma? It seems like a pointless endeavor due to this reason. thoughts?

 

[Transform]

Even if you don't see it becoming legal, it adds a lot of legitimacy to the case for moving psychedelics into Schedule II. On its own I agree with you it won't be effective, but there are so many things happening for law reform all in parallel that I think its possible the younger BLers will see legal psychedelics within their lifetimes.

 

[TryptamineBunny]

Because there are some people who dont automatically submit to the will of government and its agents and know that the truth will win out in the end. However there are many people like yourself who just lie back and accept whatever they are told, and also act in support of such tyrants by typing defeatist nonsense like you just did.

 

[Deleted member 290563]

Because there are some people who dont automatically submit to the will of government and its agents and know that the truth will win out in the end. However there are many people like yourself who just lie back and accept whatever they are told, and also act in support of such tyrants by typing defeatist nonsense like you just did.

you're wrong about the agents of truth triumphing over special interest. When has that ever happened? The US is in a war that is robbing its citizens of every penny and quality of life just to steal money from them to give to big corporate defense companies, all while killing millions of innocent foreigners and soldiers. They are willing to do all this for corporate money, you think they are going to hesitate to keep psychedelics illegal? get real

Even if you don't see it becoming legal, it adds a lot of legitimacy to the case for moving psychedelics into Schedule II. On its own I agree with you it won't be effective, but there are so many things happening for law reform all in parallel that I think its possible the younger BLers will see legal psychedelics within their lifetimes.

by becoming legal I mean adding to Sched 2. This would never happen bc then people will use them instead of pharmas sched 2 drugs or lower scheduled ones

 

[TryptamineBunny]

I see, because something hasn't yet happened, it is automatically precluded from ever happening.

I dont think they will hesitate to try and keep you from nature's effective medicines, it as as you say not in their best interest. What I said was truth wins out over lies. It is only fairly recently in the corporate dictatorship era that so much truth is emerging as the fools are undermined by their own information technology. What is required is for people to keep sharing this knowledge, to keep demonstrating that they no longer believe in the democratic theatre they are fed, and demanding the fundamental right of access to nature and its wonders.

So get with the program, join the fight, dont fund the enemy and sooner or later we will win.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

So how does anybody ever think they will out lobby big pharma?

Who are "they" supposed to be?

Because there are some people who dont automatically submit to the will of government and its agents and know that the truth will win out in the end. However there are many people like yourself who just lie back and accept whatever they are told, and also act in support of such tyrants by typing defeatist nonsense like you just did.

Please spend some time studying sociology, political science, history, and maybe some psychology or systems theory. It might help with the conspiratorial thinking.

When has that ever happened?

Given that societies have undergone change, and knowledge/information contrary to the interests of empowered groups has become widely circulated and gained currency as fact innumerable times throughout history, I'd say it's happening all the time.


Anyway, the research seems promising, so I see psychedelics being added to the allopathic pharmacopeia sooner or later.

 

[NJ5227]

you're wrong about the agents of truth triumphing over special interest. When has that ever happened?

Hmmm, ...after 80 years of prohibition, marijuana is gaining acceptance and legality where previously big corp/pharma/gov successfully mislead an entire society into making it illegal. Maybe you've heard about it? Its kind of a big deal. And it is this exact triumph that we can build on, as mj is a psycho-active. The barrier is being broken day by day.

 

[RobotRipping]

who do you think is going to make these psychedelics once they are legal? big pharma. They got your back, don't worry about that. They will be the first ones on board in making all drugs legal, because they will produce them! You don't think they wouldn't mind taking out the black market and putting those profits into their pockets?

this is why i love the alcohol/tobacco lobbyists, they have my back and will defend my right to drink alcohol/smoke cancerous cigarettes to the death! Shit big pharma already does this anyway with methadone, pharm opiates, pharm stims and pharm benzos, it's just set up in such a nice little way. The drug user benefits, they make tons of money and it all works out! whether that's good for society or not, i don't even care.

tobacco lobbyists will have our backs in legalizing cannabis as well, because they have the infrastructure to support the manufacture of cannabis products already and the money to do it as well. That's why Marlboro and other tobacco company already have patents on cannabis cigarettes. Big pharma/tobacco/alcohol aren't fucking stupid and they have far more power than the US government. They have massive global influence.

as much as i hate capitalism, i often find that generating the most profits possible also somehow magically aligns with what i want in life as well.

 

[xx001]

who do you think is going to make these psychedelics once they are legal? big pharma. They got your back, don't worry about that. They will be the first ones on board in making all drugs legal, because they will produce them! You don't think they wouldn't mind taking out the black market and putting those profits into their pockets?

this is why i love the alcohol/tobacco lobbyists, they have my back and will defend my right to drink alcohol/smoke cancerous cigarettes to the death! Shit big pharma already does this anyway with methadone, pharm opiates, pharm stims and pharm benzos, it's just set up in such a nice little way. The drug user benefits, they make tons of money and it all works out! whether that's good for society or not, i don't even care.

tobacco lobbyists will have our backs in legalizing cannabis as well, because they have the infrastructure to support the manufacture of cannabis products already and the money to do it as well. That's why Marlboro and other tobacco company already have patents on cannabis cigarettes. Big pharma/tobacco/alcohol aren't fucking stupid and they have far more power than the US government. They have massive global influence.

as much as i hate capitalism, i often find that generating the most profits possible also somehow magically aligns with what i want in life as well.

But psychedelics are not under patent so they wouldn't be able to make much of a profit like they could with their "blockbuster drugs".

 

[RobotRipping]

the synthetics they could come up with could be though. I'm sure there are plenty of LSD analogues and psilycibin analogues that could be created and patented quite easily. I don't think anyone has patents on the RCs out there either, so big pharma could go gobble them up too or buy out anyone who has them.

 

[xx001]

They can't patent something that has already been around though. Why use some odd new drug that we know nothing about when good ole lsd and psilocybin would be cheap and freely available?

 

[Deleted member 290563]

who do you think is going to make these psychedelics once they are legal? big pharma. They got your back, don't worry about that. They will be the first ones on board in making all drugs legal, because they will produce them! You don't think they wouldn't mind taking out the black market and putting those profits into their pockets?

this is why i love the alcohol/tobacco lobbyists, they have my back and will defend my right to drink alcohol/smoke cancerous cigarettes to the death! Shit big pharma already does this anyway with methadone, pharm opiates, pharm stims and pharm benzos, it's just set up in such a nice little way. The drug user benefits, they make tons of money and it all works out! whether that's good for society or not, i don't even care.

tobacco lobbyists will have our backs in legalizing cannabis as well, because they have the infrastructure to support the manufacture of cannabis products already and the money to do it as well. That's why Marlboro and other tobacco company already have patents on cannabis cigarettes. Big pharma/tobacco/alcohol aren't fucking stupid and they have far more power than the US government. They have massive global influence.

as much as i hate capitalism, i often find that generating the most profits possible also somehow magically aligns with what i want in life as well.

i see your point on big pharma manufacturing psychs. But these are drugs that will take the place of an SSRI you take every single day or whatever else fore example, so it might cut into the sales of their currently existing drugs....but I was hoping they see the other side of the coin that you presented which is that they could possibly profit off of it. I hope the do end up taking that position because their influence over laws getting passed or not is very great.

 

[any major dude]

Interesting discussion. There's actually a recent article on vice titled Get Rich or High Trying: The Coming Age of Corporate Pot that covers some of these issues as they relate to cannabis. Also on that note I never thought I'd see legal cannabis & that appears to be happening relatively quickly now (not that there haven't been people striving towards this for some time, but the pace of success has been increasing lately)

Another thing to think about is the way the drug assisted psychotherapies work, they don't require frequent administration, so the scale of production big pharma posesses isn't really required. Also, MAPS is technically a non-profit pharmaceutical company. Given the fact that most psychedelics are off patent at this point (I can only think of 1 that's currently under patent, it's also the only psychedelic in schedule II, bonus points if you can name it.) & that only limited production will be required, thatnon profit model may well be viable.

The percentage of people who've tried psychedelics is equal to if not greater than it was in the 60s. A good portion of politics is waiting for the old & entrenched to die off. As these trends continue I think they only make success more likely.

 

[RobotRipping]

i see your point on big pharma manufacturing psychs. But these are drugs that will take the place of an SSRI you take every single day or whatever else fore example, so it might cut into the sales of their currently existing drugs....but I was hoping they see the other side of the coin that you presented which is that they could possibly profit off of it. I hope the do end up taking that position because their influence over laws getting passed or not is very great.

very true, but big pharma does not want any drugs that cure anything, and psychedelics don't cure anything but can't be used as much as an SSRI however they can be used alongside SSRIs anyway, i don't know. I'm sure big pharma can pull some patents on LSD just by changing its formula to make it long lasting like they do with oxycodone and such. They are in it for the money and will do whatever they can to get it. And that's where i base my hope for the ultimate legalization of drugs, even if it's a bit silly to think so.

I think they will see the other side of the coin but in the end will corrupt psychedelic research, as they do not want psychs to be a cure but having them as a side drug to go along with therapy while someone is still on SSRI/SNRI/DRNI/Stimulants or other pharms, it'd make sense for them to add psychs in there to add more profit, not to mention pharm heroin for us junkies!

so i think there's a much better case for big pharma to legalize all drugs in general, rather than just psychedelics alone but either way psychs will be legalized as well, so win win?

 

[Deleted member 290563]

As far as tweaking the forumala of lsd to make it a new patentable drug goes....I'm sure pharma would like to approach drug discovery this way, but they don't because the retention of psychoactivity is an axe in it legalization as far as the FDA is concerned. I.E. the FDA wont let anything that alters concsciousness or is abusable become legal medication....granted they did with opiates but drugs that cause a drastic change in thinking such as psychedelics might be a different story...it will be interesting to see how the FDA government/and regulatory bodies handle this aspect. Theyve made opiates, amphetamines legal...but they don't alter thinking to the extent that psychs do but are much more addictive. So is the whole consciousness altering issue existant because they don't want people to become addicted to the substances, or because they don't want them thinking? probably both but hopefully not too much of the latter

 

[RobotRipping]

i dunno they are doing clinical trials on mushrooms in the US right now as well as MDMA. Ketamine is probably going to be another one but i'm sure big pharma isn't cool as ketamine is too effective for treating PTSD/depression/anxiety and you only have to take it once a week.

well the government probably doesn't want people to question things and would prefer passive and productive mass of people (the reason why opies, benzos, stims are pharms) but big pharma > govt so if they (big pharma) figure they can make money by making pharm psychs or psychs recreational drugs (it's a risky venture at best but i don't work for them so have no idea) then they will be schedule 2 at least in the US, if not then things will remain the same.

I don't think psychedelics would be very popular anyway, not any more so than now. Most people don't like to alter their consciousness that much. They'd much prefer to stick to cocaine/opiates/amphetamines/alcohol/tobacco.

Psychedelics aren't addictive which is probably a big reason why big pharma would not want to sell/produce them medicinally. They want to create/patent drugs that are addictive and must be used for life, as that gives them far higher profits. However, big pharma would certainly like to legalize all drugs that way they can sell/produce all kinds of drugs to recreational users and get them hooked for life. If that is the case, they can't really legalize all drugs and not legalize psychedelics, that'd be ridiculous and at that point, they may as well just get whatever tiny profit from psychedelics as well. So long as the cost does not outweigh the revenue, they'll do it, that's for sure. It's just a matter of time.

There is no bigger threat to big pharma than a cure for cancer, aids, any disease really. If cannabis poses that threat and it sure does, then i think big pharma would lobby against it. If cannabis ends up only being useful for helping patients quality of life and is not a cure for cancer, you can get they'll lobby for legalization of cannabis.

those are just my speculations though, the whole system of pharmaceuticals, the health care industry, government, prison, law enforcement make it such a convoluted issue that i just don't have the knowledge to weigh it all out and come up with a relatively accurate prediction.