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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Legal high products in the UK (branded pills and powders)

biggiro said:
Legal highs are a rapidly growing business, just because you can buy certain of the ingredients that are used in many of the highs on the market does not mean that you know which ingredient is used in any particular pill or powder.
Neither is an informed guess the true answer either, only a proper lab report on specific pills will really tell you what may be in them.

But if you know that Mephelone or methylone or whatever other substance makes up the truly active ingredient, if you find a pill that either suits you or not, should you wish to buy the pure RC chemical, you can maybe have a good idea of which one to buy and which to leave be.
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Ok...let's take this slowly....these are your words....

just because you can buy certain of the ingredients that are used in many of the highs on the market does not mean that you know which ingredient is used in any particular pill or powder
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BINGO! The point, the whole point, and nothing but the point.

You want to get high legally, but don't know which chemical to take.

Vendor A sells them all, in 99.8% pure form, cheaply, each chemical clearly marked for contents.

Vendor B sells them all, mixed up with other chemicals, in brightly coloured packages with misleading tables of ingredients or no list of ingredients at all.

Harm reduction website BL would be fucking mad if it offered any other advice at all apart from do not buy from B.

Neither is an informed guess the true answer either, only a proper lab report on specific pills will really tell you what may be in them.
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So why are you here asking people to guess?

But if you know that Mephelone or methylone or whatever other substance makes up the truly active ingredient,
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What? You mean like in the 99.8% mephedrone or methylone sold at 10% of the price by other vendors?

if you find a pill that either suits you or not,
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This is the enormity of your totally illogical approach. You start from scratch. You want to enjoy some legal chemicals.

The sane approach. Check BL website for others experiences, take an educated guess at which described chemical bests suits your desires and buy a test dose from Vendor A of the pure chem.

The insane approach. Go straight to Vendor B, grab a whole load of different brightly coloured packages containing uncertain and impure chems, then come to BL website asking for information nobody has so you might be able to guess from this bunch of unknown, impure chems which pure chem to buy.

Your posts are madness. Its easy to see why you came across as a troll promoting these things at first. Of course you're not a troll. You are just stubbornly stupid.
 
Oooh, a reply to get my teeth into!!!!

I will reply at length, taking each of your points into consideration, but please, no stupid insults about me being a troll or stubbornly stupid, I take offence at that and would hope that site moderators also take note...


Biggiro
 
Mods will deal with personal insults if required but you need to report (
report.gif
) any posts you consider to be personally offensive, Giro. As a rule, unless it's way over the top it's probably better to rise above it.
 
biggiro said:
Oooh, a reply to get my teeth into!!!!

I will reply at length, taking each of your points into consideration, but please, no stupid insults about me being a troll or stubbornly stupid, I take offence at that and would hope that site moderators also take note...


Biggiro
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It wasn't an insult. I said you aren't a troll. And you are being stubbornly stupid. That's my definition of persistently illogical anyway.
 
StoneHappyMonday,

I was going to have fun arguing with you, I enjoy this kind of thing, oh, thanks for clarifying re - 'persistantly illogical' by the way...
But in doing so I'll only be saying things I've already said.

I suppose at some point proper tests will be done on some of these chemicals, but don't be fooled into believing that the so called 'pure powders' are as pure as they claim, they are not produced in the UK are they, but from China, I somehow doubt that Quality Control is very strictly observed.

For me, if it is accepted that we can never be sure of exactly what is in the various pills, and given that people will continue to take them in increasing numbers (prohibition notwithstanding of course) then rather than simply saying, "Oh, don't take them." At least advise on how not to take them.
Otherwise the only advise a harm reduction site should give would be, "Don't take drugs." period.
Because to do so is to break the law and damage your health.

I don't know the truth in how fickle the producers of these pills and powders are, to do so would mean actually knowing the individuals concerned.

I understand why the true ingredients are not listed, but can't be bothered to reiterate it again for the umteenth time.

Many of the people trying the various legal highs are not those necessarily with a lot of experience of taking drugs of the illegal variety, but are drawn to them because they 'ARE' legal.
Perhaps best guesses as to content is all that can be hoped for at present, maybe it is true that the recipe's change from batch to batch.....

Maybe I should start a thread somewhere on 'trip reports and observations for legal highs' Perhaps one is already in place, that might be a better place to find the kind of information I am looking for, rather than arguing pointlessly in this thread...

Biggiro.
 
Maybe, everyone on here helped you out as much as they possibly could, and you just don't understand. At the end of the day you are asking questions that are near enough impossible to answer. Why would tests ever be done on these, not body really does them, you say millions of people do these, when they don't, as they are shit and pointless. You get a better buzz when you eat a Boost guarana. Why start another thread in trip reports, so another few hundred people can guess what is in a shitty little, pointless legal high pill.
 
I wouldn't say all legal high pills are shitty - many folks here enjoy meph, M1 etc and those are common ingredients in these pills. The issue for me is more that these mystery pills are inherently dangerous as the ingredients are basically unknown and constantly changing.

Giro makes a reasonable point that none of us truly know that that gram of meph we just bought is actually 99.9% pure or whatever - the recent and tragic 2C-B-fly/Bromo-dragonfly mix-up demonstrates that - but at least we can use a test kit to be reasonably sure that what's in the baggie is as labelled. You can't really do that with these unknown pills though cos you have nothing to compare the results to.
 
What is in the pills can be good sometimes, but I can see no positive things, what so ever in necking one, not knowing what the devious money hungry people want to out in it. I can't really understand why biggiro wants to know so much about something that is so lame.
 
I can understand the desire to stay within the law and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that but I must admit I don't really understand the desire to use unknown pills rather than deal with the active ingredients themselves. I suppose brand names sell just as they do in other realms though.
 
Is this not the same thinking as the thousands of street level pills bought each week (with the assumption that they are MDMA) people talk about "stamps" which is exactly the same as brand names. At least with the shop bought "legal high" pills the user can at least know what kind of high they are going to expect week after week. IF everyone who enjoyed these "legal pills" did as Biggiro is doing - that is buying them from a shop and doing a bit of research of what they are taking" instead of just buying x pill on the street the real MDMA market wouldn’t be as fkd what it is now.

Look at it this way - Biggiro enjoys taking (legal) Dove's - and says wow these are great, was high for 10 hours - its no different to somebody on Pillreports saying - Wow I took a Diamond, was high for 10 hours.

So Biggiro is curious to the contents of “Dove” – if this wasn’t a legal high and was tested as an MD./MD.. compound then we would probably talk about it for months – ooh bit trippy – probably MDA – you were awake all night – high Speed – no empathy – MDEA etc etc.

IF people can’t understand that there are two different types of pills now
A) Piperazine/legal RC’s
B) MDMA or its many other forms

And understand that both lots have a place on the market then were screwed!
 
I'd say the difference is that you can test "ecstasy" pills and know what you are taking to an extent. At least with ecstasy you know that the chances are you'll either be getting MDxx or pipz and can verify which one you get. You can't really do that with branded legal pills. Plus they keep changing the recipe so they're pretty inconsistent - even if you take a certain brand and enjoy it there's no reason to believe the next time you buy it it will have similar effects.

The recent "Ivory Wave" product seems to be a case in point - initial reports were of it being seriously potent stuff. Within weeks users are reporting that they are now getting completely different effects (if any effects) from the exact same product. Legal high dealers seem to have even less morals than illegal high dealers :\
 
London Underground Jax (Strong Pseudo X.T.C)

These new legal highs from London Underground were originally developed as a legal alternative to ecstasy.

Jax (short for Union Jack, which is the symbol on the pill) are specifically formulated to manipulate your brain's sensitivity to various naturally occurring chemicals, such as noradrenaline, serotonin and dopamine.

Through use of ecstasy precursors, Jax closely mimics the feeling that you can achieve from a good clean E, (no other pills do this), however it is unlike E which achieves this effect by manipulating the chemical balance in your brain, leaving you depleted and depressed or even addicted.

Jax are thought to cause an increased receptor affinity to those same chemicals, meaning that while the same high may occur your brain's chemical balance remains unaltered, so no more Tuesday blues, no flat-feeling comedown and best of all no addiction or long-term damage.

A word of warning however - Jax are aimed at the experienced clubber and were originally designed as a replacement to assist people coming off E. Jax are strong, very strong. If you weigh less than 70kg it is advised that you only take half a pill. Jax comes in packs of 2 and are designed for the second pill to be used a second top-up dose - DO NOT DOUBLE DROP! Jax are the original one-pill ecstasy replacement for those who seek more.

These extra strength Jax contain one dose per pill, with 150mg benzylpiperazine and 75mg triflouromethylpiperazine. May act as a CNS stimulant, may cause mood elevation, elevated heart rate and short-term insomnia.

It is recommended that you drink plenty of water when consuming Bolts. Avoid mixing with alcohol. Do not consume with any medicines, drugs, or other products containing BZP. Do not use if you have a heart or liver defect, high blood pressure or mental illness. Not suitable during pregnancy or for lactating mothers.

Ingredients:

150mg BZP, 75mg TFMPP, standardised nutmeg extract, synthetic equivalent of Piper nigrum extract, dicalcium phosphate, magnesium stearate.
 
Forget the "ecstasy" pills though and look at the majority of the pills sold/consumed in the UK in the last few years (all piperazines). IF everyone who enjoyed the pips were savvy enough as biggiro and refused to buy them at street level and just bought online/headshop would the real "ecstasy" pill scene be as bad? (I honestly think No)

We have moved on so far from ecstasy (MDMA) pills though - now "Ecstasy" is the feeling and not the content?

Legal high sellers have less morals for sure = they know what they are selling but hide behind stupid lables/plant food/not for human consumption etc - Illegal dealers have no clue (street level, majority) and just sell what people buy - they think they are trading in E (mdma) and know no other.

I see this as Biggiro is holding his hands up and saying - I dont care the legality of the substance - I loved it! It did this, that, other to me = what do you think it was?
 
I think Giro is actually quite concerned about the legality of his DOC hence the desire to use these products, Bear. We also don't really allow "What did I take?" threads as there's simply no way of knowing what somebody has taken. Chances are that it was a pipz blend like the one HouseFever quoted above but it's really only going to be guesswork as we all know that the ingredients lists are often pure fantasy :\

PS: If that ingredient list is accurate then these pills are kinda illegal already or will be very soon.
 
I think biggiro does care of the legality of the product. I think he cares quite a lot. With no offence meant to be caused, it sounds like he is a very sensible person, dipping his hands in to the drug scene and being very cautious about it.

Doves used to be ethylone with BZP. then they used methylone, and now they use butylone (I think) with some cathinones thrown in.
 
Nah Shambles I agree with you 100% mate - its just seems like this thread could have been nipped in the bud about 2 pages ago (EG nobody can say for sure what’s in your pills=thread closed). I’m sure that I actually reported biggiro as being a troll when I first spotted this thread (no offence BG) - but if we actually enforced the "what did I take" rule then surely the - MDMA around, what pills are good and even the ketamine section would be closed or modded to remove any pill/chemical not reagent tested or users "speculation" based on effects only.

Its almost as if legal pills (shop bought) are deemed as some dirty evil pill whereas legal pills (street pills) are discussed quite freely and in depth?

Surely for everyone involved in the pill scene IF those who enjoyed the legal high route (Piperazines etc) refused to buy them on the street (deemed as illegal) and only bought them online/shop then the street dealers would be selling MDMA?

I say let the legal/piperazine lovers buy there drugs online or over the counter – those who enjoy the illegal drugs like MDMA buy from dealers. Surely if we could separate the market the better it would be for everyone? At the moment we have people looking for MDMA buying piperazines/legal highs from a street vendor and vice versa.

Arrrrghhh – piperazine/stupidity/greed has fucked the scene though !
 
I thought he was trolling as well. This thread pissed me off like no other.
 
It's a fair point that I'm kinda contradicting myself when I say no "What did I take?" threads and continue to post in a four page thread on that very subject, Bear. As it's mostly evolved into a more general debate on the virtues or otherwise of legal high products I'm using that as my excuse ;)

It's a nice idea that pipz peepz could buy their pills legally in headshops and the rest of us could buy yummy MDMA pills from dealers but realistically it's just not going to happen for many reasons. For a start pipz are already technically illegal without prescription from what I can tell and the loophole that allows them to be sold (sort of) legally will be closed at the end of the year when a more blanket ban (along with GBL) comes in. The profit margins on pipz are huge so there's little reason for dealers who are only in it for the money to sell MDMA (if they could even get hold of any at the moment) and so few "ecstasy" users seem to even care what they take as long as they're fucked up for a night and fucked over for a few days afterwards that there's little reason why a dealer would bother to go to the effort of sourcing better drugs for them :\
 
Yeah definitely mate - so if we can’t

A) Talk about "what did we take" in any great depth
B) Play Guess the chemical (as it serves no purpose/against harm reduction)
C) Be arsed incase this is a troll thread
Should we not just simply close it?

Lets face it the whole point of this thread is a user (BigG) has taken a legal high (blended pill) and liked them - he has asked what’s in them - and the bottom line is NOBODY KNOWS. Going over and over it is pointless - the RC market changes week on week, different blends are being used and effects from person to person vary so much it’s an impossible scenario for us to say what one users experience was caused by.

Legal Dance pills should have the ingredients stamped quite clearly on the packet - if they don’t then you are taking a pill that has the potential to be as contaminated/adulterated as any illegal street pill = no "safer".

Like Ive said a few times in these threads - fucked up and loved up is not the same, once people can tell the difference then maybe things will improve? (aka wishful thinking, sorry my dreads are stuck in my asscrack and Im off to bed)

Bear :)
 
Just read through some of this thread. biggiro your blatently some kind of online legal highs pill seller. That is all.
 
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